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Poll

Where does your liberty come from?

God or Other Intelligent Designer
Evolutionary Achievement
Governmental Decree
None of the Above

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Author Topic: From where do you derive your liberty?  (Read 9833 times)

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William Pearson - LibertyTiger

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From where do you derive your liberty?
« on: December 25, 2005, 02:00:39 AM »

I was rather surprised by the number of atheist on this board, simply because I have always believed, as our founders did, that our rights were derived from our Creator. Many of our founding documents, especially the Declaration of Independence hinge on the fact that there is a supreme Being, a Creator, God. If you are atheist or agnostic, from where do you derive your rights? Government can only take them away. Do we earn rights through our evolutionary supremacy?

My motive of asking this question is simply for my own enlightenment. This will probably end up spawning a debate, but that is not intended by me.

bushwacker

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2005, 02:52:13 AM »

My liberty comes from the almighty Sphagetti Monster of Antioch! :P He let me be in charge of his arsenal of holy hand grenades of Antioch... :)

Poet- I'm not an atheis, but my gf is :). Personally, I'm an agnostic who was raised Catholic. I think more of my rejection of the church was pretty much that... the church- and it's community more than the actual religion itself per se. I never felt like I fit in or was really welcomed there.

That's when I had a revelation with the sphatetti monster! He game to me in an opium-induced 'vision'! JK
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RichDPhoto

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2005, 05:56:33 AM »

My right to life, liberty and property comes by virtue of my being a sentient life form.

Who cares if it was some god that made me that way, or four billion years of evolution?  Why does it matter?

What matters is that no other person can take my liberty away from me unless I willingly cede it to them.
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bonerjoe

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2005, 12:04:30 PM »

Haha, intelligent designer. Hehe. Someone should revoke his permits.
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TN_FSP

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2005, 03:13:40 PM »

I was rather surprised by the number of atheist on this board, simply because I have always believed, as our founders did, that our rights were derived from our Creator. Many of our founding documents, especially the Declaration of Independence hinge on the fact that there is a supreme Being, a Creator, God. If you are atheist or agnostic, from where do you derive your rights? Government can only take them away. Do we earn rights through our evolutionary supremacy?

I agree with Jefferson.  The clock gave us our liberty.  Man took it away.  I'll never stop fighting the man until he gives me back my freedom.
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bonerjoe

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2005, 04:58:28 PM »

Way, way to many "libertarians" are part of the system they claim to hate.
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TN_FSP

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #6 on: December 25, 2005, 05:00:14 PM »

Way, way to many "libertarians" are part of the system they claim to hate.

I agree.  I am not one of them, as I don't hate the system.  Anyone that lives in AK, buys things, works, or votes is part of the system.
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lapafrax

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #7 on: December 25, 2005, 06:21:53 PM »

I was rather surprised by the number of atheist on this board, simply because I have always believed, as our founders did, that our rights were derived from our Creator. Many of our founding documents, especially the Declaration of Independence hinge on the fact that there is a supreme Being, a Creator, God. If you are atheist or agnostic, from where do you derive your rights? Government can only take them away. Do we earn rights through our evolutionary supremacy?

My motive of asking this question is simply for my own enlightenment. This will probably end up spawning a debate, but that is not intended by me.

Rights are social constructs.  They only are invented by man.

I don't believe in "natural rights" because I think the concept is groundless.   I think it's difficult to prove that God himself gave man rights.  How do you even know that God exists?  No major religion explicitly states that man has the rights to life, liberty and property.
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BKO

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2005, 08:55:16 PM »

I care nothing for a "creator", in fact even less than I care about "evolution".  Leave me the FUCK alone and stay the FUCK out of my way.  My liberty is not "granted", it simply exists because I was born into this world a man -a man just like all other men...no one man is greater than any other, no HUMAN can lay claim to that which is not their own.  My life is MY OWN, and therefore so is my liberty.

I am willing to back that up with whatever it takes.  Are you?



So, the answer to that poll above is: "none of the above".

William Pearson - LibertyTiger

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2005, 10:00:29 PM »

Poll edited, Brokor, you can vote now.

TN_FSP

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2005, 11:29:30 PM »

I don't believe in "natural rights" because I think the concept is groundless.   I think it's difficult to prove that God himself gave man rights.  How do you even know that God exists?  No major religion explicitly states that man has the rights to life, liberty and property.

Natural Rights theory did not come from a major religion.  It came from the age of enlightenment when logic and reason took a strong hold on philosophy.  Natural rights aligns perfectly with my religion, Deism.  

You don’t have to believe in God to be a Deist.  You don’t have to believe in God to believe in natural rights.
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BKO

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2005, 01:16:10 AM »

Poll edited, Brokor, you can vote now.
cool.  You kick ass, dude.

lapafrax

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2005, 09:53:48 AM »


Natural Rights theory did not come from a major religion.  It came from the age of enlightenment when logic and reason took a strong hold on philosophy.  Natural rights aligns perfectly with my religion, Deism. 

You don’t have to believe in God to be a Deist.  You don’t have to believe in God to believe in natural rights.

Either way, the concept still is bunk.
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Gabo

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2005, 02:53:04 PM »

People derive their liberty by working for it.
Unless you strive to keep it, you won't have it.


Why isn't this option on the poll?
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RichDPhoto

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Re: From where do you derive your liberty?
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2005, 05:07:27 PM »

People derive their liberty by working for it.

No, their liberty comes by virtue of their being alive.

Quote
Unless you strive to keep it, you won't have it.

That's why it's important to have an insurance policy -- the kind made by Glock, Rock River, Kimber, Weatherby, etc.
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