Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6   Go Down

Author Topic: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.  (Read 30675 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

John Shaw

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17244
    • View Profile
    • Think Twice Productions
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #60 on: September 01, 2011, 11:59:33 AM »

Quote
Seems like suing violence against people is sorta breaking the non aggression principal.
If those people are the aggressors using violence against them is A-OK according to the non aggression principal.

I was referring to spanking children.
Me too.


I would imagine that if you don't initiate violence against a child that said child wouldn't be prone to initiating violence in the first place.

Having said that, spanking in the vast majority of cases is not a response against initiated force.

The vast, vast majority of spankings are considered by the child beater as "corrective", you know?
Logged
"btw its not a claim. Its documented fact."

sillyperson

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5196
  • Free the Mallocs!
    • View Profile
    • NH Liberty Alliance
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #61 on: September 01, 2011, 12:14:55 PM »

I would imagine that if you don't initiate violence against a child that said child wouldn't be prone to initiating violence in the first place.
Don't take this the wrong way, but... ever raised a kid?

At a certain point, they will indeed initiate violence, purely out of curiosity. How the parent reacts (or fails to react) at that point determines a lot.


John Shaw

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17244
    • View Profile
    • Think Twice Productions
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #62 on: September 01, 2011, 12:38:21 PM »

I would imagine that if you don't initiate violence against a child that said child wouldn't be prone to initiating violence in the first place.
Don't take this the wrong way, but... ever raised a kid?

At a certain point, they will indeed initiate violence, purely out of curiosity. How the parent reacts (or fails to react) at that point determines a lot.

No, and please read again.  :P

I/we wouldn't be a good parent/s, so we're not having kids.

Making an honest assessment of one's limitations is very helpful. There will be no children who have an unsatisfactory childhood because of me.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 01:00:34 PM by John Shaw »
Logged
"btw its not a claim. Its documented fact."

Turd Ferguson

  • Opportunist Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4085
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/#!/realmikequick
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #63 on: September 01, 2011, 03:20:53 PM »


I/we wouldn't be a good parent/s, so we're not having kids.



Thats about as honest a statement as I've ever heard.

 I'm the same way when it comes to kids. They're cool and all. Just not for me, cuz I'd be a terrible parent, unless of course I was forced into the situation, by way of unplanned pregnancy or my sperm stolen from me in the night by some crazed woman. Then I'd probably be a good parent, but only after I changed a whole shitload of stuff about myself that parenting would require, and that would suck.

I'm a really good uncle tho. Easy to do when youre not really responsible.
Logged
Some peoples idea of hell is having to mind their own business.

Fred

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2099
    • View Profile
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #64 on: September 01, 2011, 04:01:09 PM »

Its your business, but you're missing out on probably the most fulfilling thing there is in this life!
Logged

Turd Ferguson

  • Opportunist Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4085
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/#!/realmikequick
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #65 on: September 01, 2011, 04:28:58 PM »

Its your business, but you're missing out on probably the most fulfilling thing there is in this life!

Even better than snorting a line off of a hookers ass?
Logged
Some peoples idea of hell is having to mind their own business.

Fred

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2099
    • View Profile
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #66 on: September 01, 2011, 04:37:45 PM »

not better, but longer lasting - plus, you can still do that and have kids too!
Logged

John Shaw

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17244
    • View Profile
    • Think Twice Productions
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #67 on: September 01, 2011, 06:24:54 PM »

Its your business, but you're missing out on probably the most fulfilling thing there is in this life!

Having children is not in the cards for us. It's not a matter of disliking kids.

I'd rather not be a parent at all than be the sort of parent that raised me, and I don't want to be dealing with an 18 year old kid at the age of 55.

Also, if I raised a kid who ended up damaged because I was a bad parent, I would have two choices:

1. Lie to myself like most parents who are bad.
2. Not be fulfilled in the way you're talking about.

We like quiet, we like our money, we like our stuff, and we like our cats. Kids would make all of that harder to have.
Logged
"btw its not a claim. Its documented fact."

John Shaw

  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 17244
    • View Profile
    • Think Twice Productions
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #68 on: September 01, 2011, 06:52:45 PM »

I don't know why people spank their kids. All I am saying is that it is possible for someone to spank a kid, and not violate the NAP.

I agree. Yes. It is possible to hit a child in self defense.

I've never spanked my kids. I don't even like when people scream and yell at kids, and think a lot of that seems abusive.

I agree.

But I think there can be times when yelling, and even spanking may be appropriate. I'm not willing to put the "never acceptable" label on spanking.

I wouldn't say "Never acceptable" either. I would however, say "Rare enough as to be almost inconsiderable in the vast majority of cases."
« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 06:57:38 PM by John Shaw »
Logged
"btw its not a claim. Its documented fact."

dalebert

  • Blasphemor
  • FTL Creative Team
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6622
    • View Profile
    • Flaming Freedom
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #69 on: September 01, 2011, 07:12:19 PM »

I don't feel I have the authority to label something "acceptable" or not.  I have my notions and will talk about them but I feel kind of silly speaking about morality in absolutes.  This is not because I don't believe in objective morality, but because I know I'm a finite and fallible human being who doesn't have a monopoly on truth.

The way I think of spanking is that it carries a heavy price.  It's a choice that seems expedient in the moment but the long-term consequences are difficult to conceive of and are likely vast.  I think if you hit your child, you destroy some trust, confuse them about when violence is called for, and possibly much more.  It takes an exponential amount of work to regain trust compared to what it takes to avoid losing it in the first place.  I hear a lot of justifications to the tune of "I had to or my kid could die." and "(S)he's too young to understand an explanation so I just have to classically condition against the might-die scenario."  And if they're too young to understand an explanation, e.g. "Cars will run you over dead if you go in the street!" then they're too young to understand why you're hitting them, and that will leave a mark for a long time.

alaric89

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
    • View Profile
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #70 on: September 02, 2011, 08:17:03 AM »

I know I'm a finite and fallible human being who doesn't have a monopoly on truth.

This. Why do non parents give so much advice to parents? What do you have to gain? Parents at best just nod politely to your clueless advice and at worst make fun of you.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E5Lec3m1pLY[/youtube]
« Last Edit: September 02, 2011, 09:45:18 AM by alaric89 »
Logged

Peppermint Pig

  • Libertarian Adept
  • FTL Creative Team
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1113
  • This is where the fish lives.
    • View Profile
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #71 on: September 02, 2011, 10:04:45 AM »

I know I'm a finite and fallible human being who doesn't have a monopoly on truth.

This. Why do non parents give so much advice to parents? What do you have to gain? Parents at best just nod politely to your clueless advice and at worst make fun of you.

Even when people think they are right and have the soundness of the NAP backing up their positions, it helps to understand that even the libertarian ideology serves a limited purpose, mainly that of providing an individual with an ethical code. In an imperfect world of fallible people, there will be 'imperfect' actions, and people should be free to find (market) solutions in their lives with as much accordance towards the philosophy of liberty as possible. In not advocating a specific form of active governance of human action, temperance is the implied virtue of a wise individual seeking harmony.

Just because someone does not have any children doesn't mean they would be a bad parent, or a poor advice giver. BTW, why would someone with a genuine concern for the welfare of a child be dissuaded by ridicule from parents? Granted, it could be an ineffective communication exchange, but it does not imply fault one way or the other.

To simplify the argument: Some people are over-zealous in spreading their opinions. Temperance is a virtue, but only one virtue. Parents do not have absolute control of their children as they grow into individuals, ethically or realistically.
Logged
Vigilance towards Liberty, in perpetuity!

dalebert

  • Blasphemor
  • FTL Creative Team
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6622
    • View Profile
    • Flaming Freedom
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #72 on: September 02, 2011, 10:05:56 AM »

This. Why do non parents give so much advice to parents? What do you have to gain? Parents at best just nod politely to your clueless advice and at worst make fun of you.

Here we go again.  We've been through this... recently.

I realize lots of parents hit their kids.  I'm also aware that lots of people believe in democracy.  It's broadly accepted that abuse is cyclical so it doesn't surprise me that lots of parents feel that this is completely normal since that's how most of them were raised.

I'm gonna express my opinion sometimes.  Deal with it.  I'm pretty used to lots of people laughing at me for holding opinions that differ dramatically from majority opinions of our society, a society that's got some serious... issues.  So saying lots of parents agree with you and that you're just laughing at me for being so "obviously" wrong is still a pathetic cop-out argument IMHO.

Grow an argument.

Cognitive Dissident

  • Amateur Agorist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3916
    • View Profile
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #73 on: September 02, 2011, 11:03:29 AM »

Flatly equating spanking with abuse is simply absurd.  I don't/won't have children, so it will not be a practical question for my personal behavior.  I was spanked, probably about a half dozen times, as a child (that is, when I was old enough to remember.)  It was done in what I would call a "respectful" way by people who believed it was the right course of action (parents, teachers.)

This extremism is what loses a lot of "fellow travelers" who would probably be more open to principled libertarian ideas if they didn't have this pompous crap shoved down their throats.  We all know that the difficult and often unsettled liberty issues involve children, so I'd like to suggest that people back off the self-righteousness in the area of these issues.  I think refraining from the judgmental attitude in areas like this makes it easier to persuade people on issues that are more settled.
Logged

Fred

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2099
    • View Profile
Re: Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.
« Reply #74 on: September 02, 2011, 11:05:53 AM »

you go Ken!
Logged
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Freedomain Radio is basically a cult.

// ]]>

Page created in 0.033 seconds with 33 queries.