flu

[Kvitka]

explain what?  these studies were done to test a drug versus placebo in eradication of the cold.  everyone got the cold who got the rhinovirus in the nose- then they tested the meds to see if they worked.  people get sick from viruses; they have symptoms from the virus, we can even run a lab test to check for that virus; its presence with patients symptoms verifies infection- we then kill it with an antiviral or the bodies immune system fights it.  sometimes the virus wins and we die.  herpes causes cold sores (simplex type 1).  you can send a swab from the cold sore to a lab who will confirm it has herpes virus in it.  disease presence and virus presence are therefore proven to co-exist and this far exceeds post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacies- this is as close to proof as you are going to get.

You speak of viruses very highly.  You are their counsel of defense it appears, oh how foolish this world is to defend the very ideas that destroy it.  Are you aware that not a single medically relevant virus has been isolated?

[Kvitka]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I never said they think.  I asked, what directs the actions of the virus?

The RNA is responsible for the replication. The "knowledge" of where to enter the cell from, I do not know.

I already explained that briefly.  I'm not going to go into more detail because if he really is interested he would take a class in molecular biology or buy a molecular bio text book.  I'm arguing with an idiot.

It appears you're projecting.  If you speak of someone as an idiot, does that make you smarter?  If words of offense make a person an intelligent one in this world than I will gladly remain an idiot and allow the one speaking to continue the hypocritical projection and by his own words expose himself further.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

Since you mentioned you're a MicroBiology Major, I'd like to ask you: have you any proof of any medically relevant virus which has been correctly isolated?

I'm a biochem major, if you even were reading my posts.  Most known viruses have been isolated and identified.  They can be read relatively simply.  Here's a suggestion, pick up any textbook on the subject and read a few pages.  Chances are you won't understand any of it, so you might want to get more basic textbooks first.  If you just want to look at pretty images from electron microscopes then its quite simple to type a search into google.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I never said they think.  I asked, what directs the actions of the virus?

The RNA is responsible for the replication. The "knowledge" of where to enter the cell from, I do not know.

I already explained that briefly.  I'm not going to go into more detail because if he really is interested he would take a class in molecular biology or buy a molecular bio text book.  I'm arguing with an idiot.

It appears you're projecting.  If you speak of someone as an idiot, does that make you smarter?  If words of offense make a person an intelligent one in this world than I will gladly remain an idiot and allow the one speaking to continue the hypocritical projection and by his own words expose himself further.

You obviously are an idiot who believes in magic instead of science.

[Kvitka]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I never said they think.  I asked, what directs the actions of the virus?

The RNA is responsible for the replication. The "knowledge" of where to enter the cell from, I do not know.

I already explained that briefly.  I'm not going to go into more detail because if he really is interested he would take a class in molecular biology or buy a molecular bio text book.  I'm arguing with an idiot.

It appears you're projecting.  If you speak of someone as an idiot, does that make you smarter?  If words of offense make a person an intelligent one in this world than I will gladly remain an idiot and allow the one speaking to continue the hypocritical projection and by his own words expose himself further.

You obviously are an idiot who believes in magic instead of science.

You're a better speaker than I thought.  Have you yourself ever isolated a virus or do you depend on other people's opinions through text books?  Because if you have no more wisdom than the guy who taught you, what can you prove?

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I never said they think.  I asked, what directs the actions of the virus?

The RNA is responsible for the replication. The "knowledge" of where to enter the cell from, I do not know.

I already explained that briefly.  I'm not going to go into more detail because if he really is interested he would take a class in molecular biology or buy a molecular bio text book.  I'm arguing with an idiot.

It appears you're projecting.  If you speak of someone as an idiot, does that make you smarter?  If words of offense make a person an intelligent one in this world than I will gladly remain an idiot and allow the one speaking to continue the hypocritical projection and by his own words expose himself further.

You obviously are an idiot who believes in magic instead of science.

You're a better speaker than I thought.  Have you yourself ever isolated a virus or do you depend on other people's opinions through text books?  Because if you have no more wisdom than the guy who taught you, what can you prove?

I have worked with isolated viruses although no, I have not personally isolated one myself.  I have isolated other biomolecules and am confident that given the opportunity/reason I could use the same principles to isolate small amounts of concentrated virum.

[Kvitka]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I never said they think.  I asked, what directs the actions of the virus?

The RNA is responsible for the replication. The "knowledge" of where to enter the cell from, I do not know.

I already explained that briefly.  I'm not going to go into more detail because if he really is interested he would take a class in molecular biology or buy a molecular bio text book.  I'm arguing with an idiot.

It appears you're projecting.  If you speak of someone as an idiot, does that make you smarter?  If words of offense make a person an intelligent one in this world than I will gladly remain an idiot and allow the one speaking to continue the hypocritical projection and by his own words expose himself further.

You obviously are an idiot who believes in magic instead of science.

You're a better speaker than I thought.  Have you yourself ever isolated a virus or do you depend on other people's opinions through text books?  Because if you have no more wisdom than the guy who taught you, what can you prove?

I have worked with isolated viruses although no, I have not personally isolated one myself.  I have isolated other biomolecules and am confident that given the opportunity/reason I could use the same principles to isolate small amounts of concentrated virum.

When you isolate one yourself, let me know how it works out please.  I'd be very interested to know from what you isolate the virus and what process you will use.  Also, would be interesting to see how an isolated virus is linked to a disease, the proof itself.  I doubt anyone has ever followed a "virus" inside the body with a camera to see how it affects the cells, and if that's true, than no one actually has conclusive proof that it is the virus that causes the problem with the body, and not the mind affecting the fluids through a neurotransmission activated by a certain belief or expectation.

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

I already explained the basics of how viruses make you sick.

[IndyCA]

This is like debating a creationist. 

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

This is like debating a creationist. 

It's worse.  At least a creationist will recognize that some form of genetic evolution takes place.

[blackie]

Basically, virons are wads of RNA that wriggle into the nucleus of a cell and takeover the workings of the nucleus to use the cell to produce as many virons as possible before the cell dies. The new virons go into other cells and do the same thing.

The physical symptoms of sickness from the flu is your body going into overdrive in an effort to wipe out the virus.

Prove it.

What you are doing is being contentious Its not argument. For an argument one side presents facts, then the other presents a rebuttal then evidence to the contrary.

 I provided well established evidence. Established to the point I don't think its even necessary to provide sources for. Your rebuttal was for me to "prove it" which is whats called a "misplaced burden of proof". What I said was in of itself a series of facts. Now you want more proof on top of the proofs I presented? If anything, its your job to disprove me, which you can't do.

You didn't provide any evidence, you made a claim. I am asking you to provide evidence for that claim. You presented no proof.

[todd]

You speak of viruses very highly.  You are their counsel of defense it appears, oh how foolish this world is to defend the very ideas that destroy it.  Are you aware that not a single medically relevant virus has been isolated?
[/quote]

are you aware that hundreds of medically relevant viruses have been isolated?  now, you are just making things up.  your defense is that since you yourself have never isolated said virus, you then question its very existence.  how do you know that you have a brain, or need it to function?  you have not seen it.  even if you had a ct scan, that could be made up.  i would not recommend you take yours out to examine it and see if it prevents you from living.  do you think that an inventor needs to recreate everything that has happened before him in order to make an advance?  no, you accept the work of others and move on if they are done with sound science.  germ theory is quite well established, but in science, we call things a theory when they are testable.

here is the picture you wanted http://www.independent.co.uk/news/the-first-picture-of-the-aids-virus-attacking-the-inside-of-a-living-cell-1132428.html (yes, it happened 10 years ago).  but you will argue that they are just lying and have no proof that virus was hiv and that it going into the cell caused any harm. 

as for me defending viruses?  that is preposterous.  i would love to destroy them all.  also, do you believe in any disease states at all, or are they all imaginary?  do bacteria cause infections?  what about parasites?  fungi?  this is intriguing.

[Diogenes The Cynic]

This is like debating a creationist. 

Dude, shut the fuck up.

[Diogenes The Cynic]

[/b]

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I never said they think.  I asked, what directs the actions of the virus?

The RNA is responsible for the replication. The "knowledge" of where to enter the cell from, I do not know.

I already explained that briefly.  I'm not going to go into more detail because if he really is interested he would take a class in molecular biology or buy a molecular bio text book.  I'm arguing with an idiot.

It appears you're projecting.  If you speak of someone as an idiot, does that make you smarter?  If words of offense make a person an intelligent one in this world than I will gladly remain an idiot and allow the one speaking to continue the hypocritical projection and by his own words expose himself further.

No, you really are an idiot. Don't you think a parasite that worms its way into a cell then uses the cell to replicate itself untill the cell dies would be detrimental to the well being of the organism? What if this is done millions of times?

[FTL_Mark]

Someone called in and tossed down the vaccine card just now, if you want to move this to on air.