flu

[Kvitka]

Basically, virons are wads of RNA that wriggle into the nucleus of a cell and takeover the workings of the nucleus to use the cell to produce as many virons as possible before the cell dies. The new virons go into other cells and do the same thing.

The physical symptoms of sickness from the flu is your body going into overdrive in an effort to wipe out the virus.

Prove it.

What you are doing is being contentious Its not argument. For an argument one side presents facts, then the other presents a rebuttal then evidence to the contrary.

 I provided well established evidence. Established to the point I don't think its even necessary to provide sources for. Your rebuttal was for me to "prove it" which is whats called a "misplaced burden of proof". What I said was in of itself a series of facts. Now you want more proof on top of the proofs I presented? If anything, its your job to disprove me, which you can't do.

Where was disease before animals and humans appeared on earth?

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act? 

Viruses are not technically alive.

[Kvitka]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

[anarchir]

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I agree with this statement 100%. Viruses are not alive, they do not think.

[Kvitka]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I never said they think.  I asked, what directs the actions of the virus?

[Diogenes The Cynic]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I never said they think.  I asked, what directs the actions of the virus?

The RNA is responsible for the replication. The "knowledge" of where to enter the cell from, I do not know.

[Kvitka]

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I agree with this statement 100%. Viruses are not alive, they do not think.

Who do you believe created the so called "virus" and who do you believe created man?

[Kvitka]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I never said they think.  I asked, what directs the actions of the virus?

The RNA is responsible for the replication. The "knowledge" of where to enter the cell from, I do not know.

What directs/instructs the RNA to replicate?

[todd]

some viruses have trouble living outside of animals (that is why smallpox was nearly eradicated since it could not infect anyone).  there are ways to keep viruses alive in a lab.  evidence that viruses cause disease?  well, i will grant you that germ theory is still a theory in that it can still be tested, but there are studies whereby volunteers have placed rhinovirus into their noses, and guess what, they got a cold!  surgeons use sterile technique and infection rates are incredibly low.  people have been stuck with hiv contaminated needles and subsequently developed hiv.  who knows where viruses first came from- are they damaged bacteria or single celled organisms that can't function without using another hosts cellular machinery?  it is not clear, but many of them are very effective at what they do.  i will continue to wash my hands and practice good hygiene.  flu is very effective in that it can mutate and jump species; this has to do with it being an rna virus that is made up of various segments.  what kind of proof do you need that viruses cause disease?  you are making an error in attributing human characteristics to a virus.  the virus does not think- it attaches to a receptor on a cell, or is engulfed by the immune system.  once inside, it does what it does, takes over the cellular machinery and starts to reproduce.  if the immune system or antiviral medication kills it, it does not lament, nor do its friends hold a funeral.  it is just over.  these are bits of genetic material, not upper food chain organisms.

[Kvitka]

some viruses have trouble living outside of animals (that is why smallpox was nearly eradicated since it could not infect anyone).  there are ways to keep viruses alive in a lab.  evidence that viruses cause disease?  well, i will grant you that germ theory is still a theory in that it can still be tested, but there are studies whereby volunteers have placed rhinovirus into their noses, and guess what, they got a cold!  surgeons use sterile technique and infection rates are incredibly low.  people have been stuck with hiv contaminated needles and subsequently developed hiv.  who knows where viruses first came from- are they damaged bacteria or single celled organisms that can't function without using another hosts cellular machinery?  it is not clear, but many of them are very effective at what they do.  i will continue to wash my hands and practice good hygiene.  flu is very effective in that it can mutate and jump species; this has to do with it being an rna virus that is made up of various segments.  what kind of proof do you need that viruses cause disease?  you are making an error in attributing human characteristics to a virus.  the virus does not think- it attaches to a receptor on a cell, or is engulfed by the immune system.  once inside, it does what it does, takes over the cellular machinery and starts to reproduce.  if the immune system or antiviral medication kills it, it does not lament, nor do its friends hold a funeral.  it is just over.  these are bits of genetic material, not upper food chain organisms.

Are you familiar with the placebo effect phenomenon, if so, how do you explain it?

[anarchir]

And now we will take a short break from this serious discussion for a word from our non-sponsor:

[todd]

explain what?  these studies were done to test a drug versus placebo in eradication of the cold.  everyone got the cold who got the rhinovirus in the nose- then they tested the meds to see if they worked.  people get sick from viruses; they have symptoms from the virus, we can even run a lab test to check for that virus; its presence with patients symptoms verifies infection- we then kill it with an antiviral or the bodies immune system fights it.  sometimes the virus wins and we die.  herpes causes cold sores (simplex type 1).  you can send a swab from the cold sore to a lab who will confirm it has herpes virus in it.  disease presence and virus presence are therefore proven to co-exist and this far exceeds post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacies- this is as close to proof as you are going to get.

[Kvitka]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

Since you mentioned you're a MicroBiology Major, I'd like to ask you: have you any proof of any medically relevant virus which has been correctly isolated?

[Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)]

Mike:

This is where the pro-vacsers go off the rails. You are diagnosing me, when you never saw me. How scientific is that?

It is this scientific: Injectable Flu vaccines are made using a killed virus. It is physically impossible to contract the flu from a killed virus. Either you already had the flu prior to getting the shot, or you contracted a strain other than the one in the shot, or possibly some other disease. But, you cannot get the flu from a dead virus.

Hey,

Anyone mind telling me if a virus is responsible for a disease or sickness, what gives this virus life and direction to conduct it's evil act?  

Viruses are not technically alive.

Ok, so tell me what gives the virus direction to conduct it's evil act as is believed by you?

It doesn't think, all it does is penetrate cells and use their proteins to copy itself.  Viruses are pretty simple.  They copy themselves and use up all of the resources of a cell until it kills the cell and then they repeat on consecutive cells.  The human body attempts to repel the viruses and kill them all off using white blood cells and temperature.  The effects that you feel when you're sick are due to the immune system acting to kill the virus.  Viruses can be located and killed much quicker if the body already knows what "tags" to look for, and vaccines are just a method of providing your body with that information without actually infecting you with active virus in most cases.

I never said they think.  I asked, what directs the actions of the virus?

The RNA is responsible for the replication. The "knowledge" of where to enter the cell from, I do not know.

I already explained that briefly.  I'm not going to go into more detail because if he really is interested he would take a class in molecular biology or buy a molecular bio text book.  I'm arguing with an idiot.