Excellent 3D film shows Hamas' use of Human Shields in Operation Cast Lead

[avshae]

This films shows the micro-tactics of how Hamas deliberately placed civilians in harm way as part of their game plan in Gaza, and now attempts to place the responsibility for civilian casualties on Israel. The film gives you an excellent demonstration of just what typical situations Israeli soldiers encountered in Gaza, and lets you see for yourself that the blame for civilian casualties was in more cases than not, solely due to Hamas' disregard for the life of their own population.

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[TimeLady Victorious]

This is going to sound silly, but do I need a pair of 3D glasses to watch it?

[blackie]

I wonder how much Israel paid to get that made.

[avshae]

I wonder how much Israel paid to get that made.

It is very cheap to show pictures of blood and destruction and automatically blame everything on Israel disregarding actual events entirely.
It is more complicated to represent the Israeli viewpoint since it rests on facts, logic and international law rather than playing on and exploiting naive peoples' emotions. The fact that someone was payed for doing the graphics of this film does nothing to dispute the truth that is shown.

[avshae]

I'm missing the anti-Israeli crew here.

Don't you have anything to say? Still think the IDF is so evil and the Palestinians so helpless?

Or did you not even watch the movie so it won't accidentally cause you to see things from a different perspective.

Come on, get out of all those gossip posts, I want to hear what you have to say about this movie.

[fatcat]

"Still think the IDF is so evil and the Palestinians so helpless?"

I'm assuming you mean Hamas instead of Palestinians. the reason you might be missing the anti-israeli "crew", is because all of the "crew" already agree that Hamas are murderous scum, and that taking hostages is fucking immoral. We haven't been waiting to see a video about human shield strategies to work out that Hamas are immoral. You see the "anti-Israeli crew" are also the "anti-Hamas crew", except no one hear is dumb enough to defend Hamas so it doesn't get as much attention as anti Israeli talk.

I wonder how much Israel paid to get that made.

It is very cheap to show pictures of blood and destruction and automatically blame everything on Israel disregarding actual events entirely.

Of course Hamas are dicks for putting innocent peoples lives at risk.

But whats even more dickish is launching bombs anyway, when you know innocent people are going to get killed, and then blaming Hamas for the deaths of the people you dropped bombs on.

Not that I'm saying Israel are worse than Hamas, but killing human shields is worse than taking them. As far as killing innocent people Hamas and Israel both have plenty of blood on their hands.

When a bunch of Israeli's or Americans get taken hostage by terrorists, do the Israeli/US government just bomb the terrorists along with the human shields? Or do they do everything they possibly can to get the hostages out without having them killed. So why the fuck is it any different with Palestinian hostages? I guess because the Israeli government don't give a fuck and don't need to give a fuck about killing Palestinian civilians, as long as they pay lip service to "avoiding civilian casualties"

Number 1 tip for avoiding civilian causalities, don't drop bombs in the densest city of the 6th most dense nation on earth.

I'm missing the anti-Israeli crew here.

Don't you have anything to say? Still think the IDF is so evil and the Palestinians so helpless?

Or did you not even watch the movie so it won't accidentally cause you to see things from a different perspective.

Come on, get out of all those gossip posts, I want to hear what you have to say about this movie.

You really don't get it do you?

Everyone here is AGAINST Hamas killing innocent people, and being in power over Palestinian.

NEITHER side is without guilt, the problem is, you're only happy to accept Hamas' guilt, and readily turn a blind eye to anything Israel does, from restricting food and medicine, to bombing inner city areas, or enforcing curfews and roadblocks.

You say we "blame everything on Israel", and say dumb ass shit like "Still think the IDF is so evil and the Palestinians so helpless?" when no one hear ever says anything to that intent.

Also I like how you conflate Palestinians with Hamas, yet you refer to the IDF for Israel. I only ever criticize Israel (the state) and the IDF, not Israelis. There are plenty of good Israelis, its just unfortunate they live under a government that has extremely totalitarian and murderous intentions, and I would say exactly the same thing about Palestinians and Hamas.

But the fact that people here are willing to accost both Hamas AND Israeli government for abuses of freedoms and killing innocent peoples lives, means in your eyes they must be blaming Israel for everything and think Hamas do no wrong.

Except, you can't possibly believe that since no one round here ever says such things, so it must be a handy way of making anyone who criticizes Israel seem unreasonable.

[avshae]

But whats even more dickish is launching bombs anyway, when you know innocent people are going to get killed, and then blaming Hamas for the deaths of the people you dropped bombs on.

Number 1 tip for avoiding civilian causalities, don't drop bombs in the densest city of the 6th most dense nation on earth.

Not that I'm saying Israel are worse than Hamas, but killing human shields is worse than taking them. As far as killing innocent people Hamas and Israel both have plenty of blood on their hands.

You're still missing the point. Hamas located it's entire terrorist infrastructure in that dense city. If the rules were that one could gain immunity from attack by hiding behind civilians while continuing to engage in hostile activities, lots more civilians around the world would get hurt all the time. Fortunately, international law both prohibits hiding behind civilians, plus explicitly allows targeting of military targets and returning fire when fired upon, even if this endangers civilians, so long as reasonable measures to avoid civilian casualties are taken. IDF went out of its way to avoid non-combatant casualties, even pioneering sophisticated methods to do this. It is the responsibility of both sides not to conduct their military activities near civilians.

Now suppose one side entirely disregards this responsibility. Not only do they ignore it, they use civilians as part of their tactics to avoid harm from the other side, since they know the other side is a sucker for innocents. Does the IDF have to choose between not fighting back and letting them win, or being labeled a war criminal?

Is the IDF not entitled to target a mosque which serves as a weapons depot, storing rockets? Rockets which if not destroyed will be used against Israeli civlians tomorrow?

Is the IDF not entitled to enter urban complexes where Hamas are hiding and launching rockets from, just because Hamas booby-trapped the area and the traps might blow if IDF soldiers enter, thereby endangering civilians?

Are IDF soldiers not entitled to return fire to buildings from which they are fired upon, even if there may be civilians there (which were forced to stay there by the Hamas cowards that are entrenched there).

Luckily for the world, the answer is yes - IDF is entitled to fight Hamas even though they are scum. Think what kind of world we would be living in if the likes of Hamas were able to get away with doing what they are doing, just by exploiting innocent civilians.

When a bunch of Israeli's or Americans get taken hostage by terrorists, do the Israeli/US government just bomb the terrorists along with the human shields? Or do they do everything they possibly can to get the hostages out without having them killed. So why the fuck is it any different with Palestinian hostages?

Operation Cast Lead was the IDF doing everything possible to avoid civilian casualties, which does not include letting Hamas get away. At the same time, Hamas was doing everything possible to cause civilian casualties. Many of the civilian casualties were caused directly by Hamas-prepared detonations or resulting debri, as the movies clearly shows. So there you have it: 1100 dead, of these around 550 militants, 300 civilians, and 250 unidentified. In the 6th densest city in the world, had the IDF not made every effort to avoid civilian casualties, they would have been much higher. Had Hamas not done everything possible to cause iinnocent casualties, there would have been much less.

PS I was referring to IDF, and on the other hand Palestinians, not for the reasons you implied, but simply since the Palestinian civilians are the victims here (I don't care how many Hamas terrorists got killed, matter of fact I wish more that a third of Hamas militants would have been wiped out). The IDF is the "accused" so to speak.

[rabidfurby]

wall of text

Troll. Feeding. Stop.

[fatcat]

But whats even more dickish is launching bombs anyway, when you know innocent people are going to get killed, and then blaming Hamas for the deaths of the people you dropped bombs on.

Number 1 tip for avoiding civilian causalities, don't drop bombs in the densest city of the 6th most dense nation on earth.

Not that I'm saying Israel are worse than Hamas, but killing human shields is worse than taking them. As far as killing innocent people Hamas and Israel both have plenty of blood on their hands.

You're still missing the point. Hamas located it's entire terrorist infrastructure in that dense city. If the rules were that one could gain immunity from attack by hiding behind civilians while continuing to engage in hostile activities, lots more civilians around the world would get hurt all the time. Fortunately, international law both prohibits hiding behind civilians, plus explicitly allows targeting of military targets and returning fire when fired upon, even if this endangers civilians, so long as reasonable measures to avoid civilian casualties are taken. IDF went out of its way to avoid non-combatant casualties, even pioneering sophisticated methods to do this. It is the responsibility of both sides not to conduct their military activities near civilians.

*snip*

Operation Cast Lead was the IDF doing everything possible to avoid civilian casualties, which does not include letting Hamas get away. At the same time, Hamas was doing everything possible to cause civilian casualties. Many of the civilian casualties were caused directly by Hamas-prepared detonations or resulting debri, as the movies clearly shows. So there you have it: 1100 dead, of these around 550 militants, 300 civilians, and 250 unidentified. In the 6th densest city in the world, had the IDF not made every effort to avoid civilian casualties, they would have been much higher. Had Hamas not done everything possible to cause iinnocent casualties, there would have been much less.

Yawn.

1. Hamas break the rules so its okay to kill palestinians.

"Fortunately, international law both prohibits hiding behind civilians, plus explicitly allows targeting of military targets and returning fire when fired upon, even if this endangers civilians"

Then the law is bullshit.

2. Hamas are bad so what Israel does is okay.

"At the same time, Hamas was doing everything possible to cause civilian casualties"

Please please stop using this excuse. What Hamas do has got nothing to do with whether its okay to kill people who aren't Hamas.

3. Israel try their best not to kill civilians, as long as it doesn't involve not bombing dense civilian areas.

"Operation Cast Lead was the IDF doing everything possible to avoid civilian casualties, which does not include letting Hamas get away."

Then thats not doing everything possible isn't it, dumbass.

I try to avoid civilian casualties 100% of the time, and I am 100% effective, because i don't include bullshit caveats to that which come to the effect of "I'll do everything possible to avoid civilian casualties unless it involves doing something I really want to do that would kill civilians in the process."

 Ignore the fallacy that the only way to "get" Hamas is to drop bombs on cities where they live, you quite clearly stated that it would be possible to avoid the civilian casualties if they "let Hamas get away", so thats not everything possible, is it?




Same old shit.

[avshae]

From your post I understand that:

a) You think the moral course of action by Israel would have been to do nothing, let Hamas have its own way and continue gradually increasing its rocket fire on Israeli towns.
b) You think that if civilians are killed in a military conflict, it follows by necessity that the armed force of the opposing side is immoral, regardless of the circumstances. So basically you denounce just about every military operation carried out by any nation since at least 1939.

If you really think this way, then you are a Pacifist.
If you only think this way when Israel takes measures to ensure its security, then you are merely a sentimental anti-semite.

[TimeLady Victorious]

y'all trolls posting in a nigger thread

[Riddler]

y'all trolls posting in a nigger thread

double nigga please....
with frosting

[TimeLady Victorious]

y'all trolls posting in a nigger thread

double nigga please....
with frosting

[Ecolitan]

So basically you denounce just about every military operation carried out by any nation since at least 1939.

ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding ding

He CAN be taught.

[Riddler]

fuck the arabs anyways..
they don't value human life.
theirs, or anyone elses.
eagerly strap bombs to their women & children.
let 'em die.
whose sword matters not.