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Author Topic: Unofficial History of Drama in the Free State  (Read 1312766 times)

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blackie

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4215 on: April 14, 2011, 11:26:17 AM »

So you are advocating the catholic church way of dealing with pedophiles?

No.  They ACTED.  They were real criminals.  Goddamn!
But what if it was consensual?



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All the fucking straw-men in this discussion...  Are you still claiming ignorance of the difference between a thought crime and a real crime?  Is it that complicated?
A crime requires a victim...right?
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blackie

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4216 on: April 14, 2011, 11:29:49 AM »

How did Ian react?

I'm just going on John's quote in the gigantic lettering.  Just go back a few pages if you missed it.
You know more than that.  Keep it a secret if you want.

What town did these people live in?

Who owned the property they lived in?

How did Ian and JJ get involved in this situation?

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What do you think his motives are?

I think he's ostracizing someone for starting a witch hunt based on a thought crime.
He is ostracizing someone for free speech?
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dalebert

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4217 on: April 14, 2011, 11:37:17 AM »

No, the problem is that the guy doesn't see anything wrong with his attraction to children, or having sexual relations with children. I'm not jumping to any conclusions, he said that shit. No one is disputing that.

Blackie, this is getting fucking tedious.  I think you're trolling me and making me repeat things I've already beaten to death in this thread.

That doesn't mean he's going to act on them or that he's even likely to act on them.  There are plenty of laws that I completely disagree with and yet I don't violate them because it's not worth the risk.  There are plenty of actions people would like to take but don't because bad things are likely to happen to them.  The possible repercussions for him acting on his attractions are massive.  There is simply no justification for presumptively treating him as guilty based on an unjustified faith that he is likely to one day commit a crime.

There are sneaky pedos out there who actually have access to children close to them.  Beware of them if your goal is really to protect your children.  This guy is a scapegoat.

dalebert

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4218 on: April 14, 2011, 11:38:48 AM »

Okay, yes.  Blackie is either spectacularly retarded or a troll.  I cannot possibly explain it any plainer.  I give up.

blackie

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4219 on: April 14, 2011, 11:47:17 AM »

No, the problem is that the guy doesn't see anything wrong with his attraction to children, or having sexual relations with children. I'm not jumping to any conclusions, he said that shit. No one is disputing that.

Blackie, this is getting fucking tedious.  I think you're trolling me and making me repeat things I've already beaten to death in this thread.
Just because you repeat things over and over again does not mean you have made convincing arguments.

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That doesn't mean he's going to act on them or that he's even likely to act on them.
It doesn't matter, he is still a piece of shit to me.

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There is simply no justification for presumptively treating him as guilty based on an unjustified faith that he is likely to one day commit a crime.
It doesn't matter if he has commited a crime or not. He is a pedophile, and I will treat him as such.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 12:10:01 PM by blackie »
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blackie

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4220 on: April 14, 2011, 11:54:03 AM »

Okay, yes.  Blackie is either spectacularly retarded or a troll.  I cannot possibly explain it any plainer.  I give up.
My guess it that you just don't want to answer some easy questions.

You know how Ian and JJ are involved.

You also know the town.
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Osborne

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4221 on: April 14, 2011, 12:33:46 PM »

If someone says to you that they support lynching niggers, and in fact they really are stimulated by the thought of lynching a nigger, would you associate with that person? Would you tell people about it?

If you say that having an idea that lynching niggers is good is not the same as having an idea that fucking kids is good, then that is the source of the disconnect here.
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dalebert

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4222 on: April 14, 2011, 01:04:01 PM »

Fine, I will repeat myself when I've already been clear as crystal and I will tell you that I don't know the things that I've already told you I don't know.

But what if it was consensual?

I don't think it can be in most of those cases.  This is not a point of dispute and you know it because I've been very clear on what I take issue with.  This point isn't one of them.

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A crime requires a victim...right?

Do you disagree?

I'm just going on John's quote in the gigantic lettering.  Just go back a few pages if you missed it.
You know more than that.  Keep it a secret if you want.[/quote]

I wasn't there when this happened.  I didn't take even one single glance at the gossipy thread on FB.  I didn't see any good coming out of it and I didn't want anything to do with it.  When this shit storm was still going like a week or more later, I finally got curious enough to ask a couple questions of Ian and I've already shared that.  I just got the general impression that Summer was distorting things from what he heard first hand and I tend to trust Ian enough to take that much at face value.

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What town did these people live in?

Somewhere near Keene.  I'm pretty sure they've mentioned it but I didn't commit it to memory because it wasn't that important.  There are a number of people who I see at events who's residences I've never been to and I have no idea where they live.  I've seen that couple maybe 3 times ever.

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Who owned the property they lived in?

I'm fairly confident that no one knows their landlord.  Why would they?  Pretty sure they weren't renting from anyone I know.

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How did Ian and JJ get involved in this situation?

I am under the impression this happened at some social event and they heard the initial exchange but I'm unclear of the details.  Either that, or they spoke to Summer and the couple after.

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I think he's ostracizing someone for starting a witch hunt based on a thought crime.
He is ostracizing someone for free speech?

I've been through this thoroughly.  Page back a little bit.

John Shaw

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4223 on: April 14, 2011, 01:05:52 PM »

Aight, I tried to have a reasonable conversation and now I'm getting attacked.

I'm bowing out, Dale.

For someone who has all these concerns about emotional arguments here's things you've thrown at me, personally, repeatedly -

1. Witch hunt
2. Thought crime
3. Obfuscating
4. Compromising principals
5. Pedo frenzy
6. Gossip

I am not on a witch hunt. I am not supporting the concept of thought crime. I am not obfuscating. I am not compromising my principals. I am not in a "Pedo frenzy", whatever that is. I am not gossiping. I am not making emotionalist arguments.

In this conversation between you and I, Dale, the person who has been calling names and getting angry is you, not me. I have been both calm and ameliorating in my behavior and have repeatedly spoken of and acted toward understanding. (Understanding YOU, not a pedophile.)

I refuse to let you conflate my not caring about the consequences of a bad person's actions with a deliberate act on my part to expose a bad person to harm. It is an unfair characterization and I have repeatedly told you what my actions would be under these circumstances versus what actually happened.

The fact that you are turning this into an ad hominem is fucking bumming me out, man. I deserve more respect than that.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 01:07:32 PM by John Shaw »
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dalebert

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4224 on: April 14, 2011, 01:14:39 PM »

If someone says to you that they support lynching niggers, and in fact they really are stimulated by the thought of lynching a nigger, would you associate with that person? Would you tell people about it?

If you say that having an idea that lynching niggers is good is not the same as having an idea that fucking kids is good, then that is the source of the disconnect here.

Do you believe there are people in this country who would like to change the law so that homosexuals (like me) would be put to death?  I do.  Do you think I would like them to be punished for expressing that belief?  Well you'd be wrong.  I'll counter-speech them left and right and I will also counter-speech these pedophiles about children being able to consent.  I cannot, in good conscience, throw them to the wolves when they have not harmed anyone.

Would I choose to ostracize them?  Depending on what they said based on really reliable information, such as first-hand straight into my own ears or by multiple accounts from people I trust, if it led me to believe they were really bad people (e.g. nigger lynchers, clear child predators) then I probably would.  This whole thing is a gossip fest with very dangerous ramifications for people that I cannot pronounce guilty from what knowledge I have.  The crux of my issue is people acting rashly based on gossip.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2011, 01:16:44 PM by Dalebert »
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dalebert

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4225 on: April 14, 2011, 01:24:08 PM »

Quote
Quote
I think he's ostracizing someone for starting a witch hunt based on a thought crime.
He is ostracizing someone for free speech?
I've been through this thoroughly.  Page back a little bit.

blackie

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4226 on: April 14, 2011, 01:33:26 PM »

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A crime requires a victim...right?

Do you disagree?
Kind of. Things like attempted murder. If someone tries to kill me, they fail, and I never even find out about it....it's still a crime.

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Who owned the property they lived in?

I'm fairly confident that no one knows their landlord.  Why would they?  Pretty sure they weren't renting from anyone I know.
How did JJ get in a position to kick Summer out?

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blackie

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4227 on: April 14, 2011, 01:36:04 PM »

Quote
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I think he's ostracizing someone for starting a witch hunt based on a thought crime.
He is ostracizing someone for free speech?
I've been through this thoroughly.  Page back a little bit.


I looked again, and confirmed that Ian is ostracizing Summer because of free speech / freedom of the press.

You could have just said yes.
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dalebert

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4228 on: April 14, 2011, 01:42:29 PM »

I'm fairly confident that no one knows their landlord.  Why would they?  Pretty sure they weren't renting from anyone I know.
How did JJ get in a position to kick Summer out?

First off, I thought you were asking about the landlord of the couple, not Summer's landlord.  As for Summer, I am very fuzzy about the details of what happened.  If things were getting heated at a social event at the KAC, JJ may have asked her to leave.  He's the manager.  Was she crashing at the KAC and told to find a different place to stay?  I don't know.  I have never heard a detailed account of what happened.  Didn't particularly want to hear it.  Gossip annoys me.  If you read the FB thread, you probably know more about such things than I.

Seriously guys, in case it hasn't been made clear, drama and gossip bore and/or annoy me.  It's why I hate trolls so much.  I just wanna post funny pictures in the Cthulhu thread and occasionally find amusement making str8 guys uncomfortable by being way too open about my gayness.  I usually don't have patience for much more than that.  This particular rant of unusual length for me is fueled by my anti-gossip inclinations.

I really should just stay out of this thread altogether.  Hell, look at the title.  I should know better.

dalebert

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Re: Dllama in the Free State
« Reply #4229 on: April 14, 2011, 01:43:22 PM »

You could have just said yes.

I already had.
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