Unofficial History of Drama in the Free State

[Cognitive Dissident]

Its INCREDIBLY disingenuous to claim that coming to Roger's that week is UNRELATED to PorcFest. Those friends you want to hang out with are there BECAUSE its PORCFEST. Want to join the party? Pay up. Can't? VOLUNTEER. Dont be a freeloading douche who makes the idiotic argument that you're only there to enjoy Roger's and NOT PorcFest...

How did I miss the claim that going to Roger's is UNRELATED to PorcFest?  The point is, it's THEIR campground.  By the way, you don't have to fucking worry.  I won't be there.  I wouldn't want to be around people who turn everything into collectivism.  Seems to me that's a big part of what the FSP is trying to fucking CORRECT, m'kay?

[alaric89]

I must not have gotten the memo. My take on a free society didn't include free rides.
I don't get it. You and Blackie shout from the rooftops that you wouldn't carry your own freight and then tell us that we lost the pleasure of your presence?
Well shoot.

[blackie]

You and Blackie shout from the rooftops that you wouldn't carry your own freight and then tell us that we lost the pleasure of your presence?

No, I will not carry the FSPs freight.

As Kanye West would say
"You should be honored by my lateness, that  I would even show up to this fake shit."

So anyway, what harm would come from me not paying a registration fee for porcfest?

Roger campground makes a few extra bucks. Vendors sell a few more items. The FSP loses nothing....

What is the harm done, and who is the victim?

[alaric89]

Because the organisers have invested time and money into the organising of Porcfest, the organisers. Sort of like a club who have a cover charge. Or a concert or party in a rented venue. You are stealing the services provided to make the party or entertainment happen. The fee is part of the deal. It was agreed to beforehand. Sovereign Curtis and the other organisers held up their end forthright and honest, a freedom loving person would suggest the participants show the same respect. In other words anybody that showed up and claimed fraud that there was a fee would be a liar. Anyone who sneaked in would be a thief. They mention the fee up front in every add.

[BonerJoe]

http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?topic=5157.msg52767#msg52767

[blackie]

The fee is part of the deal. It was agreed to beforehand.

What deal and what agreement?

Find one place on this page that mentions a fee:

http://porcfest.com/news/who-what-when-where-why-how

WHO:

Anyone that wants to come,....


WHAT:

The Free State Project for the entire week, from Monday, June 20, 2011 through Sunday, June 26, 2011. Feel free to arrive any time during that week and explore the Free State.   .....


HOW:

Any way you can. Just get there. Scrounge, bum a ride from any of the many convoys, or make some crafts or food to sell and even make your trip profitable! However you can manage to make it happen, and make it hot.

Find me somewhere that says what the registration fee is actually for. I've look, and asked Curtis, and it is unclear what the registration fee is for. Curtis decided to ignore the question. I'm not sure what kind of agreement is being made when you pay for registration, besided you agreeing to give the FSP $30. Does the registration fee include a Roger's Campground daypass? Who the fuck knows. It doesn't say on the porcfest website.

http://freestateproject.org/registration/porcfest/2011

This is the closest I have found.....

http://porcfest.com/frequently-asked-questions

Q: About how many non-PorcFest campers will there be?

A: The vast majority of campers will be with PorcFest, however, Roger's does have seasonal customers who will be onsite. Porcs treat everyone with respect and courtesy at all times.

...

Registration
Q: Why should I register?

A: First off, because you will need a ticket to attend PorcFest. Second, some events will fill up/sell out quickly. To provide you with the best planning and information, and to adequately arrange for space, equipment, buses, performers, etc., we need to have an accurate estimate of attendance.

Q: What does it cost to attend PorcFest?

A: PorcFest is very affordable. Various aspects of the festival have specific fees associated with them, e.g. bus tours, t-shirts. Tickets to the festival are $25 for adults (18 and over) and free for those under 18. After April 1st, the price will go up to $30, and same day registration at the festival will be $35, so register soon. There are fees to camp at Roger's (and a small day fee for day visitors), but sharing campsites can help reduce this expense. To post about sharing, post in the PorcFest Lodging Forum.

So it looks like you still need to buy a day pass from Rogers Campground if you are just going for the day.

So if I don't buy a PorcFest ticket, I would not be attending porcfest, I would just be a seasonal customer at Rogers Campground, and porcs would treat me with respect and courtesy at all times. I have never made an agreement with the FSP, and never will.

[One two three]

No,  It doesn't and it never has.  If you don't stay in the campground, you need to pay $5 per day per adult.

[BonerJoe]

No,  It doesn't and it never has.  If you don't stay in the campground, you need to pay $5 per day per adult.

It's certainly not clear, and should be mentioned in a more conspicuous place.

[dalebert]

Find one place on this page that mentions a fee:

http://porcfest.com/news/who-what-when-where-why-how

OMG!  You're actually being totally serial, like Al Gore.

I guess that is technically correct, but FWIW, there is "Registration" in large lettering at the bottom of the page, front and center.  If you click that (and then click another obvious registration link for some weird, bad page design reason), it takes you to the registration fees for PF.

I would say go if you want and hang out with people who don't mind you being on their campsites but don't go to any events.  That's the honorable thing.

Personally, I think it's better if people come than not, even if they don't register.  Pumps up the numbers and makes for more fun overall.

[One two three]

No,  It doesn't and it never has.  If you don't stay in the campground, you need to pay $5 per day per adult.

It's certainly not clear, and should be mentioned in a more conspicuous place.

You cannot bring your car into the campground without paying a fee unless you stop your car and remove the barrier.  You have to go up to the clerk and once you pay the clerk, you will be given permission to bring your car into the campground.

This has always been the policy.  It's Roger's policy and on the website.  I understand it is possible that 200-300 people that have never been to Porcfest may attend this year.  They have the ability to go to the Roger's campground website.  They should take that opportunity.  I know I always explore all aspects of a campground website before I camp at the campground.

It's true, there will be a few off site folks that won't be sleeping at the campground.  They should also check the campground website.  I doubt any of the people that decided to attend porcfest without a lot of planning will be shocked or upset if they find that there is a $5 per day fee for those that don't stay at the campground. 

There is also a $5 per day fee for adults after the first 2 on a campsite.  I've had to pay that fee at least two years.  It is a small and reasonable fee when you consider all of the services being offered.

[blackie]

Personally, I think it's better if people come than not, even if they don't register.  Pumps up the numbers and makes for more fun overall.

Personally, I like the idea of the head porcfest organizer shooting himself in the foot.


Are you allowed into the bigger gay dance party if you pay the $3 fee for that, but don't register for porcfest?

[blackie]

OK, you guys have convinced me.

If I go to porcfest, I will get a free ticket. I am under 18 and have a shire society ID to prove it.

[sillyperson]

If I go to porcfest, I will get a free ticket. I am under 18 and have a shire society ID to prove it.

Awesome bait to the FK trolls.

Seriously, though... stealing and fraud are both still Bad Things. Even if you really don't like the person or organization you are staling from.

And yes, coming to Roger's the weekend of the 25th and going to any, any of the events, talks, displays, bands, etc, is just stealing, same way sneaking into a theater or concert is stealing.

[Evil Muppet]

um, so why wouldn't it be a good idea to take your family?

Because it is being run by a bunch of douche bags who want to turn it into a party. 

Muppet, dude. Kate and Sharon have a crazy amount of kid stuff planned for Fest. This one will be way more family-oriented than ever.

I heard something about that but I didn't really know any of the details.  My comments were not referencing them.  I was under the impression that the reason any of that happened at all is because they just took the initiative to do this after people's frustration with past years where such things were more of an afterthought.  

[John Shaw]

Why is it that every time issues like this come up my stance is totally different than everyone else?

1. Don't be a cheap fucker.

2. If you're a cheap fucker, don't attend events you didn't pay for. A campsite isn't an event. You pay for that yourself anyway.


Another possible alternative if your main issue is dealing directly with FSP people or the "FSP organization" -

Give someone on site who is a friend of yours the thirty bucks when you show up. Someone who is involved directly with PF. Sign no paperwork, agree to nothing. Just hand thirty bux over to someone you trust to get it to the right people.

That might be a decent compromise if the actual money isn't the issue.

And for the record, we aren't going to PF this year because of unstable finances. (My wife's contract is currently week to week at this point.) I would qualify as a cheap fucker right now, technically. Sometimes there's a legit reason to be a cheap fucker. However, if a person can afford to get to NH with gas prices how they are right now, I can't imagine how thirty bones is a huge hardship to manage.