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Author Topic: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%  (Read 9041 times)

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Porcupine_in_MA

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2008, 11:51:34 PM »

Ohhhh but the FSP is doomed to failure because of how lousy Paul did!





 :lol:
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Alex Libman

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2008, 08:30:39 AM »

Dugg, but it's not good enough for me, sorry.  (See sig.)

NH is also the first primary, after which, like you said, a lot of people abandoned hope.  He also spent the most time & money there.  The big-L Libertarian Party of NH (or other third parties) isn't even on the ballot in NH.  Most libertarians seem to vote Republican, but your state has a popular Democrat governor, and a growing Democrat dominance in the legislature, with just 0.25% Independents.  As a matter a fact, the NH board of elections has some sort of a weird conspiracy against third parties - in 2004, LP candidate Michael Badnarik only got 372 write-in votes in NH, less than any state both as an absolute number or a percentage!  (Except Oklahoma, where he also wasn't on the ballot.)

« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 09:44:45 AM by Alex Libman »
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MobileDigit

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2008, 09:47:02 AM »

Ohhhh but the FSP is doomed to failure because of how lousy Paul did!

You hit the nail on the head.
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trollfreezone

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2008, 09:52:54 AM »

Ron Paul pulled 8% in Colorado, according to exit polls.
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DogOn

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2008, 10:27:08 AM »

Dugg, but it's not good enough for me, sorry.  (See sig.)

NH is also the first primary, after which, like you said, a lot of people abandoned hope.  He also spent the most time & money there.  The big-L Libertarian Party of NH (or other third parties) isn't even on the ballot in NH.  Most libertarians seem to vote Republican, but your state has a popular Democrat governor, and a growing Democrat dominance in the legislature, with just 0.25% Independents.  As a matter a fact, the NH board of elections has some sort of a weird conspiracy against third parties - in 2004, LP candidate Michael Badnarik only got 372 write-in votes in NH, less than any state both as an absolute number or a percentage!  (Except Oklahoma, where he also wasn't on the ballot.)



I don't see how Ron Paul doing badly in NH dooms the FSP.

As far as I can tell, the FSPs aim wasn't to get Ron Paul elected. I personally believe that it was highly irresponsible for so many liberty people to hype Ron Paul so much. It was obvious he wasn't going to win, and its not like this is going to be a growing thing, he's so old that he probably won't even run again, and if he did he probably wouldn't do much better even if he ran till he died.

People say the Paul campaign was good because it brought in people to liberty, but what good has this done? Have there been floods of membership to other freedom organisations? Has there been mass civil disobediance? All its done has got more Ron Paul supporters. If hoarding friends like some myspace addict is what you want, then the Ron Paul has been a great choice, but as for helping liberty? All its done is waste a huge amount of time and effort that could have gone towards something useful, and made alot of people who might have actually helped liberty get burnt out and not want to try anything else because they think the "system" is against them, just because Paul didn't win.

Have people been watching the media coverage of the primaries at all? The level of debate has been as deep as a puddle. If you expect a candidate who is known by a fraction of the population, as presidential as , and who uses logic and well reasoned argument instead of sensationalism, platitudes and "inspirational" rhetoric, what did you expect?

There are only 500 freestaters in new hampshire. They've not been there very long, and the FSP is a long term goal, 20,000 people. That's 4000% more than what we currently have, and that won' just happen over night, the momentum

That is if people actually do the obvious solution and condense liberty lovers to an area small enough where they can actually use the mob rule of democracy to free ourselves.

Things that make the NH a good place for freedom have not been changed by Ron Pauls failings.

-Its already fairly free (gun rights are a big issue for me).

-Right to secession is more strongly outlined than any other state.

-Small population

-Small geographical size

-and all this shit

What were you expecting? That suddenly people would hear logic and reason and suddenly apply some critical thought to their beliefs?

Becoming free isn't going to be something from a Barack Obama advert. Just wanting things to get better isn't going to make it happen over night. Its going to be a long hard slog, but it definitely won't happen if people just give up any time they don't get everything they want right away.

Paul had no more (significant) chance of becoming president as a republican than he did as a libertarian.

Even if he did get sufficient media coverage (which obviously wasn't going to happen), it wouldn't have done him any more good. All that would happen is people ramp up the slander and sensationalism to meet the increased exposure, just like that happens with any other popular candidate. Except the idea of letting people be responsible for their own lives and not have the government guiding and controlling anything, is completely counter intuitive to most people, and easily dismissed if your mind works like-

drugs are bad. ban drugs.

poverty is bad. give people money (from where?).

terrorism is bad. stop terrorism (how?)

Since when was the FSP aiming for work only through the political system anyway?


Even if the FSP completely failed to do anything for freedom, even at 20,000 members, I kind of like the idea of being around that many people who care so passionately about freedom they're willing to uproot their lives and take it halfway across the country (or the world), even when the odds are stacked against them.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 10:57:23 AM by DogOn »
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Alex Libman

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2008, 11:04:23 AM »

Yes, if you're looking to hang out with gun enthusiasts and join pointless protest marches, New Hampshire is a good place to do so.  But you're not going to accomplish any real change in a state with ~1.5 million non-Libertarians!  It's not worth it, especially if you have to take a pay-cut to move, and you probably do.  It's better to dedicate one's "pointless bitching about government tyranny" time to one's career, save money, and be ready when a real opportunity comes along a few decades from now - an island micronation, a space station, who knows...
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jimmed

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2008, 11:19:02 AM »

There are only 500 freestaters in new hampshire.

Where are they? I've never seen a group of you over a few dozen hang out.
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DogOn

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2008, 11:28:49 AM »

Yes, if you're looking to hang out with gun enthusiasts and join pointless protest marches, New Hampshire is a good place to do so.  But you're not going to accomplish any real change in a state with ~1.5 million non-Libertarians!  It's not worth it, especially if you have to take a pay-cut to move, and you probably do.  It's better to dedicate one's "pointless bitching about government tyranny" time to one's career, save money, and be ready when a real opportunity comes along a few decades from now - an island micronation, a space station, who knows...


How is anything you said relevant to the main points i made.

1. New Hampshire is small, and has a small population

2. If libertarians all move to one area they will have more influence, and not to mention a strong community of support for those who wish to fund raise, do civil disobedience/whatever.

3. There is no other state where 20,000 people could make such a difference.


20,000 libertarians in one of the freeest states in the country among 1.5 million people is far better than 20,000 libertarians spread out among the most authoritarian states among 300 million people.


edit: How are doing activism and making money mutually exclusive?

I really enjoy talking to people about liberty, donating to causes i support etc, I do it as recreation.

How is going to new hampshire (where a number as small as 200 can get a libertarian in local government), to do exactly the same as i do now "pointless bitching about government tyranny".

"You change the world one person at a time, anything else is grandiose or politics"

I've manged to get about 6 people i know to become libertarians, and dozens to support the ending of the drug war. Except doing it here in the UK is absolutely pointless, due to the lack of a state system, and due to the fact the population here is so dense it would be impossible to get any greater liberty without having at least 20 million people become libertarians.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 11:35:34 AM by DogOn »
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jimmed

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2008, 11:29:26 AM »

Yes, if you're looking to hang out with gun enthusiasts and join pointless protest marches, New Hampshire is a good place to do so.  But you're not going to accomplish any real change in a state with ~1.5 million non-Libertarians!  It's not worth it, especially if you have to take a pay-cut to move, and you probably do.  It's better to dedicate one's "pointless bitching about government tyranny" time to one's career, save money, and be ready when a real opportunity comes along a few decades from now - an island micronation, a space station, who knows...


How is anything you said relevant to the main points i made.

1. New Hampshire is small, and has a small population

2. If libertarians all move to one area they will have more influence, and not to mention a strong community of support for those who wish to fund raise, do civil disobedience/whatever.

3. There is no other state where 20,000 people could make such a difference.


20,000 libertarians in one of the freeest states in the country among 1.5 million people is far better than 20,000 libertarians spread out among the most authoritarian states among 300 million people.

20k doesn't exist and will never. Get over it.
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sillyperson

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2008, 11:30:13 AM »

Ron Paul pulled 8% in Colorado, according to exit polls.
Colorado is a CAUCUS state.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/primaries/results/candidates/#302

P.S. I love you too, Alex. It is so nice to see how much real, objectively identifiable pro-liberty activism you are doing  <kiss />

jimmed

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2008, 11:32:05 AM »

P.S. I love you too, Alex. It is so nice to see how much real, objectively identifiable pro-liberty activism you are doing  <kiss />

Howbout dat smoking ban, pardner?
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DogOn

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2008, 11:39:29 AM »

Yes, if you're looking to hang out with gun enthusiasts and join pointless protest marches, New Hampshire is a good place to do so.  But you're not going to accomplish any real change in a state with ~1.5 million non-Libertarians!  It's not worth it, especially if you have to take a pay-cut to move, and you probably do.  It's better to dedicate one's "pointless bitching about government tyranny" time to one's career, save money, and be ready when a real opportunity comes along a few decades from now - an island micronation, a space station, who knows...


How is anything you said relevant to the main points i made.

1. New Hampshire is small, and has a small population

2. If libertarians all move to one area they will have more influence, and not to mention a strong community of support for those who wish to fund raise, do civil disobedience/whatever.

3. There is no other state where 20,000 people could make such a difference.


20,000 libertarians in one of the freeest states in the country among 1.5 million people is far better than 20,000 libertarians spread out among the most authoritarian states among 300 million people.

20k doesn't exist and will never. Get over it.

Oh I get it, just because things aren't like that now we shouldn't ever think or hope to achieve anything. Theres no cure for AIDS, i guess there never will be.

There are 8,000 members of the FSP already. You would have to be extremely mentally deficient to claim that it could never reach 20,000. You would also have to be a complete fucking prick to make such an erroneous and thoughtless comment.


What the fuck is the point of talking like this. I've wasted enough time talking to you.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2008, 11:41:06 AM by DogOn »
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jimmed

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2008, 11:41:23 AM »

I've wasted enough time talking to you.

"May your chains rest lightly!"

FSP member lost an argument. They'll be pressing the ignore button in 3...2...1...
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jimmed

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Re: Digg! >> Of Primary States, Ron Paul Does Best in NH at 8%
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2008, 11:44:04 AM »

You would have to be extremely mentally deficient to claim that it could never reach 20,000.

The exponential decay of new membership signups is proof. At the current rate, we'll both be dead before it even gets close to that number. So I was wrong in saying "never". More like 200 years from now.
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