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LTKoblinsky

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2011, 03:24:12 PM »

That's the problem with wearing that outfit, though.  Why would anyone give you the benefit of the doubt that you simply were looking to have a discussion?  How long did it take before the cop started issuing commands?  Who would assume that this person's profession was irrelevant, and that it was just a guy making requests?

The vet escalated things, and if he were dealing with a normal person, it would have been pretty indefensible for him to actually use force when, and in the way, that he did before trying to just leave the situation.  However, cops don't typically make requests, and then leave people alone when they don't comply.  Again, it's sad, but this is bound to happen when one treats people this way (or affiliates with groups that are known to do so).

I'm not saying that the vet was a harmless person, or that I would have made the choices he did..  However, there are consequences to being affiliated with dangerous thugs.  In a free society, those who threatened people into pulling over, etc., and those who were so quick to fire at them, would likely not live very long.

All good points, and I'm not excusing the force aspect of law enforcement against harmless individuals. The truth of the matter, though, is that the vet was driving on a road owned by the government and was imposing excess risk on others using the same road. That's the principle behind the traffic stop. Complain all you want about government monopoly of transportation, but whipping a rifle out and shooting somebody, anybody is almost never excusable.
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Gxser

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2011, 03:27:14 PM »

Lothar, if I understand you correctly, the Officer, was being aggressive by pulling someone over for speeding (est. 90 mph in a different post). I failed to see any of his actions as aggressive so that must be what your talking about, please clarify. You further go on to say that you believe the world would be better if all aggressors were met with this type of end. So in other words, more violence, to deal with what you perceive to be violence, is the end all answer?

Bottom line, assuming the 90 mph were true, the officer is paid to stop people from this illegal speed. Obviously, the guy in the truck, he has issues, and shouldn't have been driving anyway. Or, to use your logic, by his aggressive driving, the police officer should have simply rammed him and knocked him off the road at 90 mph, hopefully killing the aggressive nutcase behind the wheel; Aggression met with Aggression, making the world a better place.

I believe most would call that war. Are you advocating that we are at war with the police, and that we should be allowed to act in any manner we so chose no matter what other non-police affiliated citizens have to Say about it? Whether your beliefs are motivated by religious, political, media-infused, or for profit sects, in no way explains what this guy did as excusable. Nor does it give any viable defense for shooting someone simply because they pulled you over for your aggressive driving.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 03:30:19 PM by Gxser »
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2011, 03:31:29 PM »

So in other words, more violence, to deal with what you perceive to be violence, is the end all answer?


No, I think he means to say that if the system weren't in place where you have a authority vs compliant slave mentality between cops and regular folks, the situation wouldn't have presented itself in the first place.

The whole "armed society is a polite society" thing taken to the extreme. The anarchist side of me tends to agree.
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Gxser

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2011, 03:42:35 PM »

I don't believe it is that simple. How can we expect to be treated as individuals, if we won't allow ourselves to see each case individually. What I mean to say is, sure we could agree that in some situations the authority (the man) vs. slave mentality exists. However, we would then have to say, "it also does not exist for every single situation." In this situation Lothar said the cop was aggressive, for simply pulling this guy over. As a, free thinking, individual, citizen of this country, I say the driver was being very aggressive with his automobile, and as a taxpayer (whether that's my choice or not) this officer pulled him over and was doing exactly what our tax dollars intended for him to do. Should he have been killed for that? Lothar said he believes that all aggressors should meet this end, why is he not addressing the driver of that automobile, should he had been killed for his aggressive driving from the officer? Or, does he mean that a non-police official, regular Joe, should be the only one allowed to kill the aggressive driving Vet ?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 03:49:25 PM by Gxser »
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2011, 03:48:21 PM »

How do you know for sure that the driver was being aggressive just because he was going 90 mph? Maybe he was perfectly capable of driving at that speed and maintaining control. I'm not saying that was the case, but the burden of proof would fall on the person making the claim that he in fact was driving dangerously.

They always make driving laws in favor of the lowest common denominator. Some 19 yr old cunt crashes her car into someones house because she couldn't handle half a beer and all of the sudden, everyone pays for it with a .08 BAC?.  Is that right?
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 03:52:15 PM by quickmike »
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Gxser

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2011, 04:01:50 PM »

As an individual, I am choosing to believe that 90 mph is excessive on a non-racetrack road. Just as you, as an individual, can make the assumption he was driving perfectly. That means, both of us could choose to completely disagree with the driving, and whether or not it was aggressive. I'm not a cop, just an old electrician, as I assume that you are not paid by tax dollars, and I could be dead wrong. At any rate, who gets to decide which opinion would be correct?

For the record, I stated in a previous post, assuming the original poster was correct about the driver going 90 mph and that is why he was pulled over. I have no way of knowing. I am simply saying if that poster was correct, then 90 mph is excessive on a highway. Now he had been driving a truck equipped with all the safety features I used to have in my 4x4 when I raced, and no houses, or other traffic not equipped with such features, were not evident on the highway, then I would have said "go for it". The officer is supposed to uphold the law, not be the law. In this individual case, from that video, I did not see him being the law. I saw him trying to uphold the law.
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2011, 04:04:28 PM »

Which brings us right back to where we started................. :P
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LTKoblinsky

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2011, 04:09:01 PM »

How do you know for sure that the driver was being aggressive just because he was going 90 mph? Maybe he was perfectly capable of driving at that speed and maintaining control. I'm not saying that was the case, but the burden of proof would fall on the person making the claim that he in fact was driving dangerously.

They always make driving laws in favor of the lowest common denominator. Some 19 yr old cunt crashes her car into someones house because she couldn't handle half a beer and all of the sudden, everyone pays for it with a .08 BAC?.  Is that right?

90 mph, whether you're capable of handling it, imposed greater risk than the same person going 60 mph. Risks have costs. I agree that many traffic laws are overbearing, but if everyone is planning for 60 mph (the speed limit or average expected rate of traffic flow), 90 mph is imposing  more risk on a drive than that person wanted or expected. Either way, it's splitting hairs. Being an asshole cop and a fucking. murder. are two separate things.
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alaric89

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2011, 04:16:51 PM »

Gxser, Lt., The cops are letting their buddies taze old ladies and kill children with little or no accountability, I am not going to cry a river if one gets caught up in his own violent world. When a cop kills a innocent person, no one cares so I won't care when a innocent cop gets killed for fucking with someone with no apparent victim.
But, yes the cop was just doing his job.
So was every other cop in history including the police in Europe during WW2.
When the police start showing some humanity as a institution maybe they will deserve respect, as it stands they generally just follow orders from whoever is in charge- blindly, and they always have.
Fun Fact: it was the regular cops that did a lot of the Jew rounding up in the axis countries in WW2. Most were not punished at all after the taking of Berlin.
They didn't even lose their fucking jobs.

Gxser

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2011, 04:17:15 PM »

This cop wasn't killed by alcohol, he was killed because some jackass decided he didn't want a ticket. Is that right? Now we get to pay for morons stay in prison, on deathrow (from what you said), all of his 20 years worth of appeals, his lawyers, the cops family and pay because he was killed in the line of duty, the prosecutors, the judges, the support bills (electric, gas, water, clothes, etc... ) that guy will use, and so on. Yeah that was so much better than simply taking a ticket for driving 90 mph which is against the law, and most normal people would agree was quite excessive for a non-race vehicle on a public highway, or rural road, or neighborhood street. Just because a car can go 90 doesn't mean that it should. Just because a gun can kill people, does not mean it should.

At what limit do you consider driving to be aggressive? 95, 100, 120 , 140 mph? The fastest I have ever been, on a freeway, was 162 mph at 3 a.m. on my bike. This was after I had been racing for the past 16 hours. I can tell you right now, that was excessive, and yes, it was aggressive. But, to use your logic, since I did not wreck, or didn't lose control, I was perfectly safe. I can tell you now, it was completely unsafe what I was doing, and would have deserved a ticket had they caught me. Just because we can jump off a building does not mean we should. Simply because we can push a button, and start a nuclear holocaust, does not mean that button should be pushed. At some point common sense for the common good has to take over.
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Fred

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2011, 04:19:28 PM »

If a cop hadda get killed, it would have been better for it to have been during a home invasion(swat team drug bust) not a lunatic traffic stop.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 04:40:56 PM by Fred »
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2011, 04:21:59 PM »




90 mph, whether you're capable of handling it, imposed greater risk than the same person going 60 mph. Risks have costs. I agree that many traffic laws are overbearing, but if everyone is planning for 60 mph (the speed limit or average expected rate of traffic flow), 90 mph is imposing  more risk on a drive than that person wanted or expected. Either way, it's splitting hairs. Being an asshole cop and a fucking. murder. are two separate things.

Well, I know some old folks that cant handle 60 mph without being a danger to others. Maybe we should make the speed limit 25 mph on the interstate...............for everyone, ya know, just to make sure everyone is safe.

I agree, the asshole cop didn't DESERVE to die....... that was terrible what happened, but in a sort of roundabout way, he had it coming. I say "had it coming" because that is what our society has bred. Not making excuses for the A=hole vet.......... just saying. You choose to be a cop, odds are you might be dealing with nutjobs like that. Same for military, firemen, even my job working on radio towers. Dangerous stuff. If you cant deal with the possibility, be an icecream man. If grandma gets too close to a lions cage and the lion somehow gets his claw far enough outside to hook on to her clothes, and he bites her head off................. she had it coming. She didn't deserve it by any means, but......................


I hope you understand the difference im trying to make clear here.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2011, 04:30:47 PM by quickmike »
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LTKoblinsky

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #27 on: April 15, 2011, 04:28:48 PM »

Gxser, Lt., The cops are letting their buddies taze old ladies and kill children with little or no accountability, I am not going to cry a river if one gets caught up in his own violent world. When a cop kills a innocent person, no one cares so I won't care when a innocent cop gets killed for fucking with someone with no apparent victim.
But, yes the cop was just doing his job.
So was every other cop in history including the police in Europe during WW2.
When the police start showing some humanity as a institution maybe they will deserve respect, as it stands they generally just follow orders from whoever is in charge- blindly, and they always have.
Fun Fact: it was the regular cops that did a lot of the Jew rounding up in the axis countries in WW2. Most were not punished at all after the taking of Berlin.
They didn't even lose their fucking jobs.

I'm sorry, but fuck you. I care when any innocent person gets killed. I haven't in any way excused murder by anybody.  Your view of no apparent victim is simplistic and the motorcycle point above me points this out very well. Also, to judge Mr. Dinkheller for the actions of other men he has never associated with is collectivist and immoral. This man was murdered.
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #28 on: April 15, 2011, 04:34:48 PM »

Nobody is innocent. We're all fucking animals. We'll eat each other if it lets one of us live. We all set standards for ourselves, morals, beliefs, all that fuzzy stuff. Very few 100% adhere to our own rules completely. Best you can hope for is to encounter only good people in your travels.


Thats the most you can hope for.
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Shadowtheweak

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Re: Cop Killed By Crazy Vietnam Vet [Graphic Video]
« Reply #29 on: April 15, 2011, 04:54:45 PM »

Gun in the room. All the guy did was refuse to cooperate, I see no problem with that. The cop replies with threats of violence and pointing his gun at the gentleman. I figure he was within his right to fire on the police officer, I know most people would shoot when some thug is threatening them.

He attacked the officer when he walked up to him.  The guy was going 98 mph when he pursued him.  This one of the good cops out there, he didn't use force until the guy went back to his truck and pulled a gun.  He died because he didn't want to hurt him.
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