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Author Topic: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.  (Read 6965 times)

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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2011, 01:27:10 PM »

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090520140408.htm

 They have discovered that DNA sequences from regions of what had been viewed as the "dispensable genome" are actually performing functions that are central for the organism. They have concluded that the genes spur an almost acrobatic rearrangement of the entire genome that is necessary for the organism to grow."

Yeah, they have discovered some shit that they overlooked in the past. Big deal, thats how science works.

How does this prove the existence of god?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 01:29:25 PM by quickmike »
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John Shaw

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2011, 01:29:30 PM »

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090520140408.htm

 They have discovered that DNA sequences from regions of what had been viewed as the "dispensable genome" are actually performing functions that are central for the organism. They have concluded that the genes spur an almost acrobatic rearrangement of the entire genome that is necessary for the organism to grow."

Yeah, they have discovered some shit that they overlooked in the past. Big deal, thats how science works.

How does this prove the existance of god?

Note that that article predates the findings about retroviral DNA found in the mammalian genome.

(Citation)
Quote
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n7277/full/nature08695.html

More -

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20054395
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 01:32:52 PM by John Shaw »
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2011, 01:33:15 PM »

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090520140408.htm

 They have discovered that DNA sequences from regions of what had been viewed as the "dispensable genome" are actually performing functions that are central for the organism. They have concluded that the genes spur an almost acrobatic rearrangement of the entire genome that is necessary for the organism to grow."

Yeah, they have discovered some shit that they overlooked in the past. Big deal, thats how science works.

How does this prove the existance of god?

Note that that article predates the findings about retroviral DNA found in the mammalian genome.

(Citation)
Quote
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v463/n7277/full/nature08695.html

So I guess this proves god is real.  :o
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John Shaw

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #18 on: May 12, 2011, 01:36:52 PM »

So I guess this proves god is real.  :o

What is interesting is that if you just do a search for "Junk DNA", which is the layman's term for this stuff, the Google results are crapflooded with I.D. sites screaming bloody murder about how "Junk DNA" is invalid, almost all of which link to a sales pitch from one dude's book. Hilarious.

Real science links -

More -

http://www.virology.ws/2010/01/13/bornavirus-dna-in-the-mammalian-genome/

More -

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2010-01/8-percent-human-dna-comes-virus-causes-schizophrenia

More -

http://www.suite101.com/content/viral-genes-in-human-genome-a43080

More-

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20527451.200-i-virus-why-youre-only-half-human.html

More-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC188696/

WAY more -

http://www.pnas.org/content/77/3/1398.full.pdf

More-

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/12/science/12paleo.html

More -

http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2010/01/bornavirus-in-human-dna/
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 01:40:52 PM by John Shaw »
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John Shaw

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #19 on: May 12, 2011, 01:45:50 PM »

Well, I guess you cant blame the guy for finding a niche, marketing it and profiting off of the suckers of the world. :lol:

Well you know, I hesitate to call them suckers, even. I mean, if you are raised to believe this stuff under threat of eternal torture it'd be hard to get away from it.

I try to have some empathy on that part of it. I just won't allow people like this to step into the ring of science and make the claim that they have any valid arguments from a scientific standpoint.

I have some level of respect for a person who who sez "I have no evidence, I won't provide evidence, and I won't use the word evidence or proof to support my claims."

If ya just wanna believe it and you're not trying to convince people, more power to ya. The second you start the sales pitch and start talking about what is and what isn't and what is true and false, well, then you better start delivering evidence or it starts to look silly.
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2011, 01:49:32 PM »

what happened to my last post?



God musta removed it.
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2011, 01:52:49 PM »

Well, I guess you cant blame the guy for finding a niche, marketing it and profiting off of the suckers of the world. :lol:

Well you know, I hesitate to call them suckers, even. I mean, if you are raised to believe this stuff under threat of eternal torture it'd be hard to get away from it.

I try to have some empathy on that part of it. I just won't allow people like this to step into the ring of science and make the claim that they have any valid arguments from a scientific standpoint.

I have some level of respect for a person who who sez "I have no evidence, I won't provide evidence, and I won't use the word evidence or proof to support my claims."

If ya just wanna believe it and you're not trying to convince people, more power to ya. The second you start the sales pitch and start talking about what is and what isn't and what is true and false, well, then you better start delivering evidence or it starts to look silly.

Yeah, I hear ya. Just gets under my skin that people wont just come out and say "Hey, it makes me feel good to believe in something'


If they would just do that............. end of story. I'll respect that.
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John Shaw

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2011, 01:54:23 PM »

what happened to my last post?

God musta removed it.

Huh. Weird.
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2011, 01:58:51 PM »

what happened to my last post?

God musta removed it.

Huh. Weird.

Nah, that was just me fuckin' about. Illustrating the point that even though there is no current scientific explanation for something, its a little nuts to jump to the conclusion that it was supernatural in its origins.

Act of god?

Nope, it was just me deleting my own post.
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cavalier973

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2011, 02:15:43 PM »

Scanning through the articles you linked, got to go to work pretty soon, so I probably won't get to all of it.


I'm having to learn and re-learn biology; this might take awhile.  From what I can gather, this bornavirus, due to the unique way it replicates--within the cell's nucleus--, is not something that one can catch by, say, someone sneezing on you.  Therefore, its presence in such a wide variety of mammals (apes, elephants, humans, etc.), and the improbability that each species of mammal caught the virus separately, indicates a common ancestor, right?  I'm not sure I see the connection between this article and the idea that "Junk DNA", previously thought to have no function in an organism, actually performs some very useful functions.

If I don't respond for several hours, it's because I'm at work.  If I don't respond for a week or so, it's because the missus is complaining ("What, you can talk to some guy on the Internet for hours, but you can't talk to me for TEN MINUTES?!?")
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 02:49:48 PM by cavalier973 »
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John Shaw

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2011, 03:14:35 PM »

Therefore, its presence in such a wide variety of mammals (apes, elephants, humans, etc.), and the improbability that each species of mammal caught the virus separately, indicates a common ancestor, right?

Nothing to do with common ancestry.

It is evidence that there are pieces of the genome that can be replaced without altering the nature of the organism.

It is evidence for the existence of DNA that serves no functional purpose.

A retrovirus uses RNA. It attaches to a cell, dumps its genetic information into the nucleus and reprograms the cell to manufacture more of itself. It can (Not always) do this in such a way that the cell still performs it's original function. (For instance, making spermatozoa) It a case like that, the sperm now have large chunks of their DNA altered yet can still function as sperm. You now have DNA that still works to make mammal X (Let's say a human) with no difference in the result, even though a large chunk of DNA has changed.

That is evidence for "Junk DNA" (Not necessarily the only cause of it, however.) Note that I said evidence and not proof.

It can also be a cause of mutation when it changes DNA that is important. Most mutations lead to dead babies. Some lead to other changes that are possibly cosmetic or less important or even beneficial.

This is also not the only cause of mutations, obviously. Anything that breaks or recombines DNA can cause them. Diet, radiation, age, whatever.

Evidence for 'Junk DNA" is only going to build over time, because it's easy to test. Take a rat or whatever with junk DNA, remove the questionable DNA (And replace it with null proteins) and clone it. Make a bunch of clones from different rats.

If they turn out to be normal rats and you can breed them over several generations and they stay rats, you've found yourself a chain of Junk DNA.

This sort of thing is happening as we speak.

What I fully expect to see is that religious types starting to say things like "Retroviruses are like the hammer and chisel that Gawd uses to create life." or "Gawd had to fill all the gaps where man lost his perfection after the original sin with something.", when they get backed into a corner about Junk DNA as evidence accumulates.

But none of this really matters. It's about repeatably testable, non-anecdotal evidence for the existence of supernatural agencies.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2011, 03:19:09 PM by John Shaw »
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John Shaw

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2011, 03:55:15 PM »

Bump for relevance.
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LTKoblinsky

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #27 on: June 02, 2011, 09:42:11 PM »

Word
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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #28 on: June 02, 2011, 09:50:16 PM »

Well said, "John Shaw"

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John Shaw

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Re: Continuation of discussion with J. Shaw, esq.
« Reply #29 on: June 02, 2011, 09:51:07 PM »

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