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Author Topic: Congresswoman shot in head  (Read 20985 times)

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John Shaw

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #45 on: January 12, 2011, 01:04:52 AM »

I hate to piss all over your shoes because you're an alright cat, but...

Does she self-identify as a Jew?



This is getting annoying.

If I identify myself as a Vanderbilt, do  I become a Vanderbilt?

What if I think of myself as a tablesaw? Does that make me a tablesaw?

Nope, but if you self identify as a Muslim, Christian, Jehova's Witness, Hindu, Mormon, Wiccan, Satanist, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Taoist, Shintoist, Catholic, Norse pagan, Greek pagan, Druid, Seventh Day Adventist, Christian Scientist, Scientologist, Voodoo, Gnostics, or whatever else, then that's what people accept you as.

And the same goes for Jews. Or let's say - Sephardic Jews, Hasidic Jews, Orthodox Jews, Conservative Jews, Reform Jews, Neolog Jews, Humanist Jews, Reconstructionist...

She's a Jew because she practices something other people agree is Judaism.

Gonna try to be as nice about this as possible...

There's a reason that there is a growing contingent of people out there who think that religion is bullshit. Nobody's stories jibe and it's all a bunch of opinions about the same thing with nothing to back it up.

1. Where did everything come from?
2. Why are we here?
3. How should we act?
4. What happens after we die?

Look at a bunch of religions and get the answer to those questions. You'll have a hoot.

And as Heinlein said so well - "One man's religion is another man's belly laugh."
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John Shaw

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #46 on: January 12, 2011, 05:11:44 AM »

But it isn't *just* religion, it is peculiar to the Jewish religion.

The Jewish religious law talks about "race" in a way that no other religions do.

For example, people aren't described as being
Quote
Muslim, Christian, Jehova's Witness, Hindu, Mormon, Wiccan, Satanist, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Taoist, Shintoist, Catholic, Norse pagan, Greek pagan, Druid, Seventh Day Adventist, Christian Scientist, Scientologist, Voodoo, Gnostics, or whatever else
just because one of their immediate ancestors happened to be a member of any of those groups, amirite?

So what you're saying is that no one who converts to Judaism is a Jew, is that right?

I can introduce you to a hell of a lot of Jews who'd disagree.
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blackie

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #47 on: January 12, 2011, 09:42:46 AM »

Quote from: Diogenes The Cynic link=topic=35821.msg623435#msg623435
Her Wikipedia says its her father that's Jewish, not her mother, therefore, she is not Jewish.

Besides Dio, most jews seem to accept those who go thru a formal conversion as being Jewish.

Also, reform Jews don't take such a hardcore stance on who is Jewish.

http://convert.org/Conversion_Process.html

Quote

10. A SPECIAL CASE: THE CONVERSION OF MINORS
 
Minors can be converted. In families with a non-Jewish mother and a Jewish father, the child is considered Jewish by the Reform movement if the child is brought up engaging in public acts of identification with Judaism. Orthodox and Conservative Judaism, however, do not regard such a child as legally Jewish. Parents of such children can if they wish have their children converted in infancy because the process is quite simple. While some would consider this a surrender to pressure especially from the Orthodox and refuse to do it, others see it as a way to get recognition of the child's Jewishness by additional segments of the Jewish people. Reform rabbis often simply have a naming ceremony. Orthodox and Conservative rabbis require the mikveh for a female minor and a circumcision and mikveh for a male minor.
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Ecolitan

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #48 on: January 12, 2011, 09:45:35 AM »

Does she self-identify as a Jew?



This is getting annoying.

If I identify myself as a Vanderbilt, do  I become a Vanderbilt?

What if I think of myself as a tablesaw? Does that make me a tablesaw?

This is getting annoying.  Your silly rules about who is accepted into your ethnic\religious club come from a book the rest of us Don't recognize as an authority.  Why would you expect us to?  Fuckin fuck you for insisting I and the rest of the world choose to communicate as if your ridiculous superstitions aren't  completely meaningless.  Save that shit to discuss amongst your Jew pals.  No one comes here to be told the way most of the world recognizes ethnic/religious distinctions is annoying to you Jews who would have us all change our ways to fall in line with your stupid old book.
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YixilTesiphon

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #49 on: January 12, 2011, 01:20:07 PM »

Wow! According to the comments on the below link, Jared Loughner was Jewish, also. Both Giffords and Loughner's mother attended the same synagogue.

http://forward.com/articles/134547/

But still the MSM wants so badly to make it seem that the tragedy was caused by a white tea party-ist!

Found it here, also:

http://www.davidduke.com/general/arizona-shooter-jared-loughner-is-jewish_22234.html#more-22234

Seriously? DavidDuke.com?

WTF.
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hellbilly

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #50 on: January 12, 2011, 06:39:58 PM »

Wow! According to the comments on the below link, Jared Loughner was Jewish, also. Both Giffords and Loughner's mother attended the same synagogue.

http://forward.com/articles/134547/

But still the MSM wants so badly to make it seem that the tragedy was caused by a white tea party-ist!

Found it here, also:

http://www.davidduke.com/general/arizona-shooter-jared-loughner-is-jewish_22234.html#more-22234

Seriously? DavidDuke.com?

WTF.

Shootin' the messenger?

Duke has just as much right as anyone else to write an article. I come across links to his stuff rarely, but when I have read his posts they always contain an honest perspective, if not under-reported facts.
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #51 on: January 12, 2011, 10:14:51 PM »

But it isn't *just* religion, it is peculiar to the Jewish religion.

The Jewish religious law talks about "race" in a way that no other religions do.

For example, people aren't described as being
Quote
Muslim, Christian, Jehova's Witness, Hindu, Mormon, Wiccan, Satanist, Baptist, Methodist, Lutheran, Taoist, Shintoist, Catholic, Norse pagan, Greek pagan, Druid, Seventh Day Adventist, Christian Scientist, Scientologist, Voodoo, Gnostics, or whatever else
just because one of their immediate ancestors happened to be a member of any of those groups, amirite?

So what you're saying is that no one who converts to Judaism is a Jew, is that right?

I can introduce you to a hell of a lot of Jews who'd disagree.

No, I'm not saying that.  Just pointing out that the idea of race has a place in Judaism unlike other religions.
Not really, it's more ancestry.  Judaism is not a race, it's a religion, and can be considered an ethnicity.  Saying Judaism is a race is like saying that Mexicans are a different race from Guatemalans.
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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #52 on: January 12, 2011, 10:15:56 PM »

Wow! According to the comments on the below link, Jared Loughner was Jewish, also. Both Giffords and Loughner's mother attended the same synagogue.

http://forward.com/articles/134547/

But still the MSM wants so badly to make it seem that the tragedy was caused by a white tea party-ist!

Found it here, also:

http://www.davidduke.com/general/arizona-shooter-jared-loughner-is-jewish_22234.html#more-22234

Seriously? DavidDuke.com?

WTF.

Shootin' the messenger?

Duke has just as much right as anyone else to write an article. I come across links to his stuff rarely, but when I have read his posts they always contain an honest perspective, if not under-reported facts.
David Duke is a bigoted asshole.  Maybe he's said some true things, I don't know, but just looking at his website shows clear anti-semitism all over the main page.  Not cool.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

blackie

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #53 on: January 12, 2011, 10:19:56 PM »

David Duke is a bigoted asshole.  Maybe he's said some true things, I don't know, but just looking at his website shows clear anti-semitism all over the main page.  Not cool.
David Duke is a realist.  :P
« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 10:22:52 PM by blackie »
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #54 on: January 12, 2011, 10:51:06 PM »

David Duke is a bigoted asshole.  Maybe he's said some true things, I don't know, but just looking at his website shows clear anti-semitism all over the main page.  Not cool.
David Duke is a realist.  :P
Pretty sure he's just a bigot.
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"Do not throw rocks at people with guns." —Hastings' Third Law
"Income tax returns are the most imaginative fiction being written today." —Herman Wouk 

"If you want total security, go to prison. There you're fed, clothed, given medical care and so on. The only thing lacking... is freedom." - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #55 on: January 12, 2011, 11:24:42 PM »

Quote from: Diogenes The Cynic link=topic=35821.msg623435#msg623435
Her Wikipedia says its her father that's Jewish, not her mother, therefore, she is not Jewish.

Besides Dio, most jews seem to accept those who go thru a formal conversion as being Jewish.

Also, reform Jews don't take such a hardcore stance on who is Jewish.

http://convert.org/Conversion_Process.html

Quote

10. A SPECIAL CASE: THE CONVERSION OF MINORS
 
Minors can be converted. In families with a non-Jewish mother and a Jewish father, the child is considered Jewish by the Reform movement if the child is brought up engaging in public acts of identification with Judaism. Orthodox and Conservative Judaism, however, do not regard such a child as legally Jewish. Parents of such children can if they wish have their children converted in infancy because the process is quite simple. While some would consider this a surrender to pressure especially from the Orthodox and refuse to do it, others see it as a way to get recognition of the child's Jewishness by additional segments of the Jewish people. Reform rabbis often simply have a naming ceremony. Orthodox and Conservative rabbis require the mikveh for a female minor and a circumcision and mikveh for a male minor.


Conversion is valid, provided its performed by an Orthodox Rabbi.
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #56 on: January 13, 2011, 12:12:56 AM »

Does she self-identify as a Jew?



This is getting annoying.

If I identify myself as a Vanderbilt, do  I become a Vanderbilt?

What if I think of myself as a tablesaw? Does that make me a tablesaw?

This is getting annoying.  Your silly rules about who is accepted into your ethnic\religious club come from a book the rest of us Don't recognize as an authority.  Why would you expect us to?  Fuckin fuck you for insisting I and the rest of the world choose to communicate as if your ridiculous superstitions aren't  completely meaningless.  Save that shit to discuss amongst your Jew pals.  No one comes here to be told the way most of the world recognizes ethnic/religious distinctions is annoying to you Jews who would have us all change our ways to fall in line with your stupid old book.

This is getting annoying.

They're not my rules, for one. The rules are the religions.

Does the local university have admission guidelines? How about the closest bowling league? I'm sure the closest masonic lodge, elks club, and rotary club all have some rules about who is a member, and who isn't. Is that silly? Depends on how important you think it is to be a student, mason, or elk. If you were an existing student, mason, or elk, you would probably think it was quite important. Face it, all social groupings have membership rules. That's the way it is.

As for you being angry, I gotta tell you. I am not the fundamentalist-fascist you're looking for. I don't live my life looking down on you because I don't really care what you're doing. I don't get why you're so fucking angry. Its like I ever did anything, or said anything to you. Maybe other people said stuff to you that you don't like, but that's not a logical reason to take it out on me. I am not them.

Fuck dude, I mean, who does it help that you're angry?

If you don't like the topic, take it up with blackie for bringing it up. I was clearing up a misconception he started.
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Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

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Ecolitan

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #57 on: January 13, 2011, 09:27:48 AM »


This is getting annoying.

They're not my rules, for one. The rules are the religions.

 I'm not mentalist-fascist you're looking for.

Yes you are.  Why else would you continue to insist the rest of us define words according to your religion?

Fuck you and your fucking religion I will continue to use modern English the way the rest of us do completely without regard to your religious dictates.  Who the fuck do you think you are to use your stupid old book to tell me how to define words?  I'm not interested in your stupid old book.

If I said that Mormons believe extramarital  sex was second to murder on the sin scale no one would care.  If I asked everyone to define it as such in their daily communication I'd  be an idiot and an asshole.

We all know you have strict rules about who gets to be one of gods chosen people.  You seem not to realize the rest of us have no inclination or obligation to give a flying fuck about you and your rules.
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 09:29:26 AM by Ecolitan »
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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #58 on: January 13, 2011, 12:13:35 PM »

What's getting annoying is that this thread got turned into a discussion of Judaism, rather than of the psychotic killer that the media want to use as an excuse to persecute people whose principles they fear.
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Congresswoman shot in head
« Reply #59 on: January 13, 2011, 02:31:44 PM »


This is getting annoying.

They're not my rules, for one. The rules are the religions.

 I'm not mentalist-fascist you're looking for.

Yes you are.  Why else would you continue to insist the rest of us define words according to your religion?

Fuck you and your fucking religion I will continue to use modern English the way the rest of us do completely without regard to your religious dictates.  Who the fuck do you think you are to use your stupid old book to tell me how to define words?  I'm not interested in your stupid old book.

If I said that Mormons believe extramarital  sex was second to murder on the sin scale no one would care.  If I asked everyone to define it as such in their daily communication I'd  be an idiot and an asshole.

We all know you have strict rules about who gets to be one of gods chosen people.  You seem not to realize the rest of us have no inclination or obligation to give a flying fuck about you and your rules.


Its funny how rabidly angry you are towards any discussion tangentially related to religion that you stop making sense, and start frothing at the mouth. Seriously, who touched you when you were little? I don't even think you realize I'm talking on a lexicographical topic, and you're not.

If I called myself a professional bowler, would I become one? What if I said I was a tablesaw?

By your logic, people become whatever they call themselves, and to hell with convention. BTW, after this, you can call me Dr. Cync, or Tablesaw The Cynic. The real world, however has parameters for defining things. You wanna BE a mason? Join a lodge. If you think you're a professional bowler, and the governing association says you're not, you're not.

There is another argument going on in the background here, besides how to define things. You being hostile, and you thinking I look down on you.

I don't get your hostility, because I have trouble with the idea of reciprocating anger. You have an attitude towards me because of something from outside of the way I interact with you. That's from your end, really. Why not ambivalence?

Seriously, why not practice ambivalence? Your anger isn't helping you. You don't need any sort of social defense mechanism online, and you're an adult now, so no one is going to do anything to you. I react to you indifferently, because I am. You're an atheist? Good for you. You say fuck old books? Fine, fuck old books by all means then. Old books are stupid. Great.

You see a religious person, and get bent out of shape in a way I can't understand. Its on you really. I can't make you feel inferior or anything, and believe you me, I don't spend a second of my time looking down on people and carrying myself all high and mighty. I'm too ambivalent for that. I'd suggest you read Meditations by Marcus Aurelius, but given your attitude to old books, you're probably not going to read it.
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Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

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