Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Combating Cliches
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: Combating Cliches  (Read 5075 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

AOD_Horseman

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
  • Yours Truly
    • View Profile
Combating Cliches
« on: October 28, 2010, 03:26:36 AM »

So I've heard a few cliche statements lately when discussing freedom-oriented ideals at work. Not many, but a couple that have irked me for a while when hearing them. So, considering how easily swayed people tend to be if you can make a witty remark (people seem so sheepish sometimes), I've tossed a few decent comebacks their way. Mainly these gems:

"This is a nation of laws!" No, this is a nation of people. Just like good and bad people, there are good and bad laws. Would you blindly obey a bad person?

"Even a broken clock is right twice a day!" A broken clock (in this case the politician of your choice) is never right when its hands are in your pocket. (I'm proud of that one in particular)

Anyone have any good comebacks to share?
Logged
Bushi no ichi-gon

Ecolitan

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3244
    • View Profile
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2010, 07:33:32 AM »

I'm not interested in purchasing permission to live my life.  Or, Sure you're free to do that as long as you purchase permission.

What laws does he want to repeal?  With nobody knows how many laws on the books that no one can ever possibly know even half of them even if they studied them their whole life do we really need more?  I'll vote for a politician who tells me what laws he wants to repeal.

referring to the Department of Education.

When the DoE was created we had the best primary/secondary education in the world and it's proponents said they would keep us on top.  If you had the best house in the neighborhood and I convinced you to hire me to keep it that way but it only kept getting worse every year and I asked for more money every year until you had the worst house in the neighborhood eventually you'd tell me to stop what I was doing, don't finish X. Just stop, put down your tools, go home.  You've never accomplished a single thing you've claimed you would.
(This was especially good on one of my current projects where the homeowner told the contractor before me to do exactly that)
« Last Edit: October 28, 2010, 07:46:34 AM by Ecolitan »
Logged

YixilTesiphon

  • FTL AMPlifier Silver
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4284
    • View Profile
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2010, 09:07:22 AM »

I thought of this one regarding government ending slavery:

"So when government finally ends an evil institution it supported for a hundred years, and kills hundreds of thousands of people in the process, then abandons the people it freed to state discrimination, I'm supposed to look at that and say 'Government sure is awesome!', huh?"
Logged
And their kids were hippie chicks - all hypocrites.

voodoo

  • FTL AMPlifier Platinum
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3748
    • View Profile
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2010, 10:37:43 AM »

You ever wonder why there are no neighborhood aspirin labs?
Logged
"It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself."  ~ Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Virginia Q.XVII, 1782. ME 2:222

Cognitive Dissident

  • Amateur Agorist
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3916
    • View Profile
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2010, 11:48:33 AM »

Just a thought.  Isn't "combating" a cliche, in this context?

On topic, a "nation of laws" is supposed to be important because it's objective, and the laws are presumed to be the kind that protect rights, not the kind that violate them.  Today we have neither objective application of the laws that exist, nor laws that protect rights.  Instead we have arbitrary application that very much depends on who you are, not the law, and the laws that are most used are not the ones that protect rights, but the one that curtail liberties.

Crap...I had another one, but it slipped my mind while I was typing.



Oh, yeah.  "Ignorance of the law is no excuse."  Once again, "the law" in this case is not legislation.  "The law" is the common law protecting property, not legislation.  Ignorance of legislation is a certainty, and you can challenge any cop's, lawyer's or judge's knowledge of the law to drive that point home.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 10:19:25 AM by What's the frequency, Kenneth? »
Logged

AOD_Horseman

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
  • Yours Truly
    • View Profile
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2010, 10:05:34 PM »

I just coined a new term in my head. I'm going to "Ian" you:
Dictionary.com's definition of Combating includes "oppose vigorously," and as I'm opposing the statement itself and not actually intending violent or disruptive confrontation with the person using it, I'll stick to it.

Now I feel like a pretentious ass. Not that I'm calling Ian that, or anything, just how I feel about me doing that.

I like to turn around the "Ignorance of the Law" argument. I could actually pull out the original and full quote to give it the appropriate context and display the perversion of the phrase, but instead I keep it simple. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse. This is a deeply ignorant law, and the people who made it are ignorant of life, liberty and property. Ignorance of the lawmakers is no excuse."

Another notion on slavery compared to taxes is a little numbers game. Prior to the American Civil War (or as I like to call it, the Secession War), an estimated 60% of the Southern states' population were slaves. Looking at that to be approximately 30% of the total population of the USA, they were 100% enslaved. After slavery has been abolished, the average tax rate on people nationwide, which we have no say in, are imposed on us without our consent (except those who passively consent by saying/doing nothing about it), and will be imprisoned while "forfeiting" all we own if we refuse, is 30-40%. That means 100% of the people are now 30-40% enslaved. Slavery never went away, it just became more "fair."

Good discussion so far, by the way.
Logged
Bushi no ichi-gon

mikehz

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8033
    • View Profile
    • Day by Day
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2010, 12:33:35 AM »

"Even a broken clock is right twice a day."

Not true, if you're using a digital clock.
Logged
"Force always attracts men of low morality." Albert Einstein

doomed

  • Guest
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2010, 08:52:00 AM »

Fuck You -> "I wouldn't fuck you with a rented dick"
Logged

AOD_Horseman

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
  • Yours Truly
    • View Profile
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2011, 03:26:21 AM »

Didn't realize I posted this so long ago, but I had a relevant thought. One cliche I just remembered today that I used to hear on the show a lot:
"Is this the hill you want to die on?"
The point is not to die on that hill, but to demonstrate that they are willing to kill you on it. Metaphorically, and sometimes literally speaking.
Logged
Bushi no ichi-gon

Diogenes The Cynic

  • Cynic. Pessimist. Skeptic. Jerk.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3727
    • View Profile
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2011, 02:44:18 PM »

"This is a nation of laws"

To which I would say: and by all means return every runaway slave you come across because laws are not meant to be broken.
Logged
I am looking for an honest man. -Diogenes The Cynic

Dude, I thought you were a spambot for like a week. You posted like a spambot. You failed the Turing test.

                                -Dennis Goddard

bobbysan

  • Aspiring Beachbum
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 25
  • From: Desolation Row
    • View Profile
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2011, 03:16:22 PM »

Yes, and the clock has been correct more often than you.
Logged
The sweet pretty things are in bed now of course\The city fathers they’re trying to endorse\The reincarnation of Paul Revere’s horse\But the town has no need to be nervous

Evil Muppet

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5487
    • View Profile
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2011, 02:31:04 AM »

Maybe you should look up the meaning of some of these phrases. 

A nation of law is supposed to refer to a concept called the Rule of Law.  It basically means that no one is immune from the law and more specifically this phrase means that those in government like the king are subject to the law.  The opposite of this is the rule of man which means that one man or a small group of men rule arbitrarily.  The Rule of Law is meant to be a check against abuse of power and protection against arbitrary rule.  I'd guess that the best way to attack this one would be to inform people about the actual meaning of this and then tell them that we no longer have a government bound by the rule of law.     
Logged
Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

Andy

  • Verbose.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2722
  • Ask me later.
    • View Profile
    • My Blawg
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2011, 08:43:06 PM »

Quote
Another notion on slavery compared to taxes is a little numbers game. Prior to the American Civil War (or as I like to call it, the Secession War), an estimated 60% of the Southern states' population were slaves. Looking at that to be approximately 30% of the total population of the USA, they were 100% enslaved. After slavery has been abolished, the average tax rate on people nationwide, which we have no say in, are imposed on us without our consent (except those who passively consent by saying/doing nothing about it), and will be imprisoned while "forfeiting" all we own if we refuse, is 30-40%. That means 100% of the people are now 30-40% enslaved. Slavery never went away, it just became more "fair."

 30-40% taxes are not equivalent to being 30-40% enslaved. This kind of thing just destroys the meaning of the word.

AOD_Horseman

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 115
  • Yours Truly
    • View Profile
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2011, 04:23:19 AM »


 30-40% taxes are not equivalent to being 30-40% enslaved. This kind of thing just destroys the meaning of the word.

I don't believe it takes anything away from the word, actually. While it may not be the literal definition of slavery, it is a quite similar notion. If you don't yield your physical manifestation of labor that is earned by spending your time and energy (which you do not have an infinite amount of) in the amount that is demanded of you, you will, if caught, have everything you have the right to own taken from you, be thrown in the aptly nicknamed rape cages, or possibly even assaulted and murdered by the enforcement arm of these people who occasionally claim the system is voluntary.
Honestly, I reacted the same way to the notion of "Taxes = Slavery" when I first heard it on FTL, but keeping an open mind to the discussion that took place on the air it began to make more sense. I don't believe the words are twisted or played with too much at all, and it makes sense when you look at it simply: If you do not obey the whims of your masters, the government, you will be punished as they see fit. You cannot own anything the government cannot take away.
Logged
Bushi no ichi-gon

Andy

  • Verbose.
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2722
  • Ask me later.
    • View Profile
    • My Blawg
Re: Combating Cliches
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2011, 04:55:03 AM »

Quote
If you do not obey the whims of your masters, the government, you will be punished as they see fit. You cannot own anything the government cannot take away.

That's been true of essentially everyone in history limited only be extreme isolation and technological limitations. Yet for some reason "slavery" has remained a distinct concept. As in you are under the direct control of one master who can dispose of you as he sees fit whether or not you do as he says, with not only no repercussions but no possibility of any repercussions. The only thing that comes remotely close is a direct encounter with a police officer and even that is somewhat moderated and temporary.
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  Combating Cliches

// ]]>

Page created in 0.025 seconds with 33 queries.