Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...

[ChristianAnarchist]

god had the power to stop the gassing of the Jews,

True ( ) False ( ) ?

Still refuse to answer the question, huh?

[Johnson]

Gene, please dance your lies around how informing the victim removes the free will of the agressor..seriously, how do you explain away god's evil there? Free will does not address the point I made. I know you are slightly illiterate, but it's right there a few times now.

Exactly what "victim" has been informed by what "agressor" (sic)?  It appears either you don't understand the principal of free will or you choose to ignore it in an attempt to make yourself look like some kind of scholar.  I'm terribly sorry that I don't live up to your level of ed-u-muh-ka-shun, but we can't all be brilliant like you... (P.S. the third button when posting is "Spell Check"...)

Firstly, I'm when I'm posting from my iPhone, which tends to crash while using the BBS, I'm not going to be concerned that I didn't get the second G in aggressor when talking to someone who makes so many spelling, logical, and grammatical errors in his regular posting regimen, that it makes George Bush look eloquent. It's the reason why I called you slightly illiterate... Which appeared to have had the right affect, you paid SUCH close attention, for once, that you were able to spot a spelling error. I think we should all make fun of your lack of thinking ability more often, maybe you will try harder to use that melon of yours.

Anyway, what I am (and have been) referring to, is God's OMNISCIENCE. Now, I probably need to define that for you... It means that God is ALL KNOWING. Actually, he's OMNIPRESCIENT. He not only knows all, but he knows all without regard to the concept of TIME. Not only is his OMNIPRESCIENT, but he's OMNIPOTENT. Meaning, he's also all powerful... So, he knows all, and can control all of creation THROUGHOUT TIME. 

When I refer to a victim of an atrocity... I could be referring to pretty much ANY victim, but I was specifically referring to the JEWS during world war II being gassed by the Nazis. It was your example, so I figured I'd run with it.

Now, God gave people free will right? So, in order to not interfere with that free will, he would not be able to control the actions of the vile nazis. God COULD however, INFORM the JEWISH victims of what was about to happen to them!
That would NOT affect free will, and the JEWS and NAZIS would still have the choice to kill and die respectively.

However, I think this is MORE pertinent in my original example when the aggressor was in fact, not a human Nazi with free will, but Satan, a fallen angel whom had ALREADY been ordered to BOW before man.

Informing Jews they are going to be killed by evil Nazis, or informing Adam and Eve that they are being taunted into committing a sin so egregious that it will create unspeakable horrors for all mankind for all of eternity, is NOT a violation of free will.... It is a MANDATORY piece of information that a GOOD omniscient being would provide immediately.

[Johnson]

god had the power to stop the gassing of the Jews,

True ( ) False ( ) ?

Still refuse to answer the question, huh?

Look at the quote there, *I* wrote that question... Not you... Are you refusing to answer it?

Psst. If you believe in an all powerful god, the answer is "True, God most certainly DOES have the power to have stopped the Nazis from having gassed hundreds of thousands of Jews"

[ChristianAnarchist]

god had the power to stop the gassing of the Jews,

True ( ) False ( ) ?

Still refuse to answer the question, huh?

Look at the quote there, *I* wrote that question... Not you... Are you refusing to answer it?

Psst. If you believe in an all powerful god, the answer is "True, God most certainly DOES have the power to have stopped the Nazis from having gassed hundreds of thousands of Jews"

No, you are refusing to answer MY question which was posed first.  It's a common tactic of someone who has lost an argument, to deflect the point directed at them by posting an irrelevant counterpoint.  My question still stands, are you going to answer it? 

[ChristianAnarchist]

Gene, please dance your lies around how informing the victim removes the free will of the agressor..seriously, how do you explain away god's evil there? Free will does not address the point I made. I know you are slightly illiterate, but it's right there a few times now.

Exactly what "victim" has been informed by what "agressor" (sic)?  It appears either you don't understand the principal of free will or you choose to ignore it in an attempt to make yourself look like some kind of scholar.  I'm terribly sorry that I don't live up to your level of ed-u-muh-ka-shun, but we can't all be brilliant like you... (P.S. the third button when posting is "Spell Check"...)

Firstly, I'm when I'm posting from my iPhone, which tends to crash while using the BBS, I'm not going to be concerned that I didn't get the second G in aggressor when talking to someone who makes so many spelling, logical, and grammatical errors in his regular posting regimen, that it makes George Bush look eloquent. It's the reason why I called you slightly illiterate... Which appeared to have had the right affect, you paid SUCH close attention, for once, that you were able to spot a spelling error. I think we should all make fun of your lack of thinking ability more often, maybe you will try harder to use that melon of yours.

I bow to your extreme intelligence.  NOW will you answer the question?

Anyway, what I am (and have been) referring to, is God's OMNISCIENCE. Now, I probably need to define that for you... It means that God is ALL KNOWING. Actually, he's OMNIPRESCIENT. He not only knows all, but he knows all without regard to the concept of TIME. Not only is his OMNIPRESCIENT, but he's OMNIPOTENT. Meaning, he's also all powerful... So, he knows all, and can control all of creation THROUGHOUT TIME. 

When I refer to a victim of an atrocity... I could be referring to pretty much ANY victim, but I was specifically referring to the JEWS during world war II being gassed by the Nazis. It was your example, so I figured I'd run with it.

Now, God gave people free will right? So, in order to not interfere with that free will, he would not be able to control the actions of the vile nazis. God COULD however, INFORM the JEWISH victims of what was about to happen to them!
That would NOT affect free will, and the JEWS and NAZIS would still have the choice to kill and die respectively.

However, I think this is MORE pertinent in my original example when the aggressor was in fact, not a human Nazi with free will, but Satan, a fallen angel whom had ALREADY been ordered to BOW before man.

Informing Jews they are going to be killed by evil Nazis, or informing Adam and Eve that they are being taunted into committing a sin so egregious that it will create unspeakable horrors for all mankind for all of eternity, is NOT a violation of free will.... It is a MANDATORY piece of information that a GOOD omniscient being would provide immediately.

Already answered the point about God's creating men with freewill and not being responsible for their actions.  If this confuses you, I really don't know how to help you.  Of course the point applies to "Satan" as well since he was also a created being...

Also, according to the story, God did inform Adam and Eve that disobedience would have consequences (actual wording would be different, I'm sure).

[mikehz]

No, you are refusing to answer MY question which was posed first.  It's a common tactic of someone who has lost an argument, to deflect the point directed at them by posting an irrelevant counterpoint.  My question still stands, are you going to answer it? 

LOST an argument? 

I hate to point it out to you, CA, but you have been seriously trounced. Now, you're just flailing around.

[Johnson]

I bow to your extreme intelligence.  NOW will you answer the question?

Perhaps in your illiterate ramblings and skimming rather than participating (which is why I am treating you like a piece of dogshit now by the way, because you are a rude fuck for not participating with equal effort and response time to those who are investing time into a discussion thread with you that you started) you MISSED the fact that I have answered all the questions you have asked me.

Already answered the point about God's creating men with freewill and not being responsible for their actions.  If this confuses you, I really don't know how to help you. 

I've spelled it out for you several times, and now I'm beginning to think that you are either mentally retarded, or that this is the psychological block for you... The WALL to your cage if you will. We haven't been TALKING about FREE WILL. I've been discussing specifically the difference between god using the FORCE of his power to remove free will of evil people to promote good... Which you have already 3 times now... like a retarded monkey pointed out that God doesn't combat evil by removing the free will, and that enslaving mankind to the whims of his power would be a greater evil, and thusly we cannot blame god for the actions of free men who choose evil... I got that Gene, I got it the first time you said it. I REPLIED by pointing out that God, if he were truly good, could circumvent that problem... (of removing the free will of a sovereign being) by INFORMING the victims of evil. God doesn't have to remove free will to participate in the reduction of evil, all he would need to do as a good and benevolent deity would be to share his infinite knowledge with the victims. I've explained this now... what... 5 times? At this point, I don't believe you are psychologically ready yet to handle this... It may be too much for your world view to absorb.

Of course the point applies to "Satan" as well since he was also a created being...

I'm beginning to think that you don't know your bible very well.... Satan is an ANGEL. ANGELs were NOT created with free will. In fact, God ORDERED Satan to bow to man (remember this is according to the bible) Satan, who craved power, refused God's order (which, doesn't make sense, since Angels were not created with free will, so satan should not have been ABLE to refuse the order) When Satan refused to bow to man, HE WAS CAST OUT. It was LATER that he returned as a serpent to the Garden of Eden (which is supposedly located somewhere on earth, which means that you should be able to find the tree of knowledge somewhere on google maps. Anyway, I see why you've been having trouble with all this, I assumed you knew the BASICS of biblical lore. Not a surprise that you don't really, MOST Christians are ignorant not only about the outside world, but even about the story and rules of their OWN little universe.

Also, according to the story, God did inform Adam and Eve that disobedience would have consequences (actual wording would be different, I'm sure).

Yeah, and that's what ALL good parents should do too right? "Hey Johnny, don't eat from that apple tree, or you will be punished." (The parent says... ONCE) and when Johnny breaks the rules... we.........

CHOP OFF HIS HANDS! or.........
PUT THE SCREWS TO HIM!!!!! or..........
Tie a rope around his dick and then push him off a ladder...
These are like... reasonable punishments right?

No wait... I know... let's make it so that we punish not only Johnny... but all of his ancestors throughout all time with some of the most horrible things we can imagine... Yeaaaaah.... That sounds like a GOOD and BENEVOLENT thing to do.

[ChristianAnarchist]

No, you are refusing to answer MY question which was posed first.  It's a common tactic of someone who has lost an argument, to deflect the point directed at them by posting an irrelevant counterpoint.  My question still stands, are you going to answer it? 

LOST an argument? 

I hate to point it out to you, CA, but you have been seriously trounced. Now, you're just flailing around.

No, I've won the argument as no one here will answer a simple true or false question.  They will not answer it as to do so exposes the fact that they have been duped by the "cult of science" (as opposed to REAL science)...

[John Shaw]

Maybe that's because I'm disputing your definition... or rather pointing out an inconsistency in it.

It wasn't "MY" definition. It was "The" definition.

[mikehz]

No, you are refusing to answer MY question which was posed first.  It's a common tactic of someone who has lost an argument, to deflect the point directed at them by posting an irrelevant counterpoint.  My question still stands, are you going to answer it? 

LOST an argument? 

I hate to point it out to you, CA, but you have been seriously trounced. Now, you're just flailing around.

No, I've won the argument as no one here will answer a simple true or false question.  They will not answer it as to do so exposes the fact that they have been duped by the "cult of science" (as opposed to REAL science)...

The number of people here who think you have won anything is limited to just one: YOU.

[JWI]

Tannis root anyone?

[John Shaw]

The number of people here who think you have won anything is limited to just one: YOU.

Which just "Proves his point" because Xians are supposed to be persecuted.

[ChristianAnarchist]

I bow to your extreme intelligence.  NOW will you answer the question?

Perhaps in your illiterate ramblings and skimming rather than participating (which is why I am treating you like a piece of dogshit now by the way, because you are a rude fuck for not participating with equal effort and response time to those who are investing time into a discussion thread with you that you started) you MISSED the fact that I have answered all the questions you have asked me.

No, you never answered the questions (there are two) so I guess I will have to post them again to refresh your memory:

1. An "assumption" is an "assumption" because it either can not or has not been "proven":  True (   ) or  False (   ) ?

2. Radiometric dating requires "assumptions" to calculate age:  True (   ) or  False (   ) ?

For any interested here's a great link on the problems with radiometric dating (includes isochrons).

http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating2.html

Or you could just ignore them again (and again and again and again...)

Already answered the point about God's creating men with freewill and not being responsible for their actions.  If this confuses you, I really don't know how to help you. 

I've spelled it out for you several times, and now I'm beginning to think that you are either mentally retarded, or that this is the psychological block for you... The WALL to your cage if you will. We haven't been TALKING about FREE WILL. I've been discussing specifically the difference between god using the FORCE of his power to remove free will of evil people to promote good... Which you have already 3 times now... like a retarded monkey pointed out that God doesn't combat evil by removing the free will, and that enslaving mankind to the whims of his power would be a greater evil, and thusly we cannot blame god for the actions of free men who choose evil... I got that Gene, I got it the first time you said it. I REPLIED by pointing out that God, if he were truly good, could circumvent that problem... (of removing the free will of a sovereign being) by INFORMING the victims of evil. God doesn't have to remove free will to participate in the reduction of evil, all he would need to do as a good and benevolent deity would be to share his infinite knowledge with the victims. I've explained this now... what... 5 times? At this point, I don't believe you are psychologically ready yet to handle this... It may be too much for your world view to absorb.

I addressed the "warning" part by pointing out that God did warn Adam and Eve.  I did not address God specifically warning the Jews (or a billion other victims) as this is getting too close to "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" type of question.  I suppose God could go about warning everyone on the planet about every pitfall that they may come across, but it seems like that would make "free will" a bit less "free" since you would be "informed" about every pitfall in life.  You certainly can make that argument (if that's what you call it) and I will have to bow again to your infinite knowledge because I don't know why God does not do this but I disagree that this in some way proves God is evil.  For one thing, as the author of what "good" and "evil" are, we have no standing to make such a claim (I'm sure you feel that you do).

Of course the point applies to "Satan" as well since he was also a created being...

I'm beginning to think that you don't know your bible very well.... Satan is an ANGEL. ANGELs were NOT created with free will. In fact, God ORDERED Satan to bow to man (remember this is according to the bible) Satan, who craved power, refused God's order (which, doesn't make sense, since Angels were not created with free will, so satan should not have been ABLE to refuse the order) When Satan refused to bow to man, HE WAS CAST OUT. It was LATER that he returned as a serpent to the Garden of Eden (which is supposedly located somewhere on earth, which means that you should be able to find the tree of knowledge somewhere on google maps. Anyway, I see why you've been having trouble with all this, I assumed you knew the BASICS of biblical lore. Not a surprise that you don't really, MOST Christians are ignorant not only about the outside world, but even about the story and rules of their OWN little universe.

I guess you know more than me (again) since I believe that angels were created with free will.  Perhaps you can educate me on this point.  How do you make the claim that angels DO NOT have free will?  Certainly I have never made such a claim.

Also, according to the story, God did inform Adam and Eve that disobedience would have consequences (actual wording would be different, I'm sure).

Yeah, and that's what ALL good parents should do too right? "Hey Johnny, don't eat from that apple tree, or you will be punished." (The parent says... ONCE) and when Johnny breaks the rules... we.........

CHOP OFF HIS HANDS! or.........
PUT THE SCREWS TO HIM!!!!! or..........
Tie a rope around his dick and then push him off a ladder...
These are like... reasonable punishments right?

No wait... I know... let's make it so that we punish not only Johnny... but all of his ancestors throughout all time with some of the most horrible things we can imagine... Yeaaaaah.... That sounds like a GOOD and BENEVOLENT thing to do.

It's great that you can place everything (even things that happened thousands of years ago) into such precise analogies.  I feel that your analogy is absurd, however.  I would say that God simply pointed out one of the laws of nature.  Like me telling my son that if he plays with fire he will get burned.  While I do what I can to make sure he doesn't get burned, he makes a mistake and burns his finger.  The pain is real but I do what I can to treat the "defect" in his cells by applying antibacterial cream and a bandage.  He heals and learns.  God did the same thing but the timescale is in thousands of years, not a few minutes.  You and I will no doubt disagree as to which analogy is closer to reality and we are simply going to have to "agree to disagree"...

[ChristianAnarchist]

Maybe that's because I'm disputing your definition... or rather pointing out an inconsistency in it.

It wasn't "MY" definition. It was "The" definition.

It was a definition you choose to use among others therefore it was "yours"...

I do not agree with it as it is inconstant with reality.

[ChristianAnarchist]

Time to point out again that no one is "brave" enough to answer the posed questions...