Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...

[YixilTesiphon]

Moderately self censored out of respect for Gene, because Gene offers people the same respect (highlight for censored words)
(even though I think his overall world view is total crap, and destroys my opinion of him as a person)

Well, I'm definitely done attempting to clean up the intentional hatred on the BBS. Ian's reversal of my shitheading of this asshole poster (who,  at the time I did so, had all of THREE posts before starting up with this bullshit) makes it clear that Ian wants a policy of "no poster left behind" on the BBS. I didn't delete the posts, I left that to Gene, since this IS an amper thread... I also don't have a problem with the content of either post - but I do have a problem with the intent, which is to intentionally be a fuckhead, and piss people off and ruin someone's day.
I see the BBS as a potential to say - look here's a variety of choices for where you can post your shit... The Annoying assholes go over here, and rational over there... Everybody has a choice... I'm not gonna fuck with a thread where people are just having fun and telling jokes, or looking at lewd pictures of things they think are hot. I do feel the need to intervene when people are deliberately being rude and trying to fuck with other posters on the BBS.

Ian is giving in to the fucks that want to take over the BBS and he's gonna treat it like a poverty level public school where the disruptive kids don't get booted the fuck out of class, or tossed in the corner with a dunce cap like they should. Instead, just like a public school, everyone is going to be forced together.
I tried to take the middle ground between Error (boot everyone who is an asshole off the BBS entirely) and Julia (don't moderate anyone for anything) and make a place for the assholes to get drunk and have their party posts where they mutually masturbate one another over how clever they think they are at the virtual equivalent of slapping "kick me" signs on people's backs. (A place where being disrespectful is expected, regardless of what the content is)

I guess the real message is that if you want a decent, respectful BBS, it's obvious that you should take a cue from Ian and go elsewhere. He's posted as many posts this month on another bbs (One that is less than 1/100th the size and activity level as this BBS) and when you take into account how many of the posts on this bbs were just about the business of the show... It's pretty clear... It's time to just give up on the FTL bbs. The FTL bbs is now the place to go if you want to see cock pics and read unoriginal racist jokes, without the benefit of the memes that 4chan provides.

Why am I announcing this? I just want to warn people that having a rational conversation without being molested exactly like what has happened in this thread - it's probably unlikely going forward. Enough assholes have gathered that want to collectively take a dump on this BBS that they will do so until everyone they can mess with leaves, and obviously nothing is going to be allowed to be done to change that.

I think it's a really stupid move... I think the point about what program directors will see is completely valid... What new listeners will see - even MORE valid... (who wants to try to join a new community only to be crapped on and disrespected?) but it must simply be that I just want to censor people and take away freedom of speech, so... I'm not going to do that anymore. Have fun destroying threads people... No one is going to stop you, unless they happen to be an amper and watching their threads at the time.

If you are interested in porn pics, racism, and / or unoriginal formulaic humor - by all means, stick around. I know I won't be trying to act like a moderator anymore - it's a FREE FOR ALL on the FTL BBS... No respect for ANYONE. Wheeeeeeeee!!!!

You're leaving? Break out the fucking champagne!

[Taors]

Moderately self censored out of respect for Gene, because Gene offers people the same respect (highlight for censored words)
(even though I think his overall world view is total crap, and destroys my opinion of him as a person)

Well, I'm definitely done attempting to clean up the intentional hatred on the BBS. Ian's reversal of my shitheading of this asshole poster (who,  at the time I did so, had all of THREE posts before starting up with this bullshit) makes it clear that Ian wants a policy of "no poster left behind" on the BBS. I didn't delete the posts, I left that to Gene, since this IS an amper thread... I also don't have a problem with the content of either post - but I do have a problem with the intent, which is to intentionally be a fuckhead, and piss people off and ruin someone's day.
I see the BBS as a potential to say - look here's a variety of choices for where you can post your shit... The Annoying assholes go over here, and rational over there... Everybody has a choice... I'm not gonna fuck with a thread where people are just having fun and telling jokes, or looking at lewd pictures of things they think are hot. I do feel the need to intervene when people are deliberately being rude and trying to fuck with other posters on the BBS.

Ian is giving in to the fucks that want to take over the BBS and he's gonna treat it like a poverty level public school where the disruptive kids don't get booted the fuck out of class, or tossed in the corner with a dunce cap like they should. Instead, just like a public school, everyone is going to be forced together.
I tried to take the middle ground between Error (boot everyone who is an asshole off the BBS entirely) and Julia (don't moderate anyone for anything) and make a place for the assholes to get drunk and have their party posts where they mutually masturbate one another over how clever they think they are at the virtual equivalent of slapping "kick me" signs on people's backs. (A place where being disrespectful is expected, regardless of what the content is)

I guess the real message is that if you want a decent, respectful BBS, it's obvious that you should take a cue from Ian and go elsewhere. He's posted as many posts this month on another bbs (One that is less than 1/100th the size and activity level as this BBS) and when you take into account how many of the posts on this bbs were just about the business of the show... It's pretty clear... It's time to just give up on the FTL bbs. The FTL bbs is now the place to go if you want to see cock pics and read unoriginal racist jokes, without the benefit of the memes that 4chan provides.

Why am I announcing this? I just want to warn people that having a rational conversation without being molested exactly like what has happened in this thread - it's probably unlikely going forward. Enough assholes have gathered that want to collectively take a dump on this BBS that they will do so until everyone they can mess with leaves, and obviously nothing is going to be allowed to be done to change that.

I think it's a really stupid move... I think the point about what program directors will see is completely valid... What new listeners will see - even MORE valid... (who wants to try to join a new community only to be crapped on and disrespected?) but it must simply be that I just want to censor people and take away freedom of speech, so... I'm not going to do that anymore. Have fun destroying threads people... No one is going to stop you, unless they happen to be an amper and watching their threads at the time.

If you are interested in porn pics, racism, and / or unoriginal formulaic humor - by all means, stick around. I know I won't be trying to act like a moderator anymore - it's a FREE FOR ALL on the FTL BBS... No respect for ANYONE. Wheeeeeeeee!!!!

You're leaving? Break out the fucking champagne!

Way ahead of ya.

[Russell Griswold]

You're leaving? Break out the fucking champagne!

I don't think he's leaving. I think he just means he won't do anymore moderator activities. Which is fine with me, since we don't need 21398629876 moderators here. I think Johnson should just concentrate on design work. He seems to be pretty good at it.

[HOO-HAA]

I know I won't be trying to act like a moderator anymore - it's a FREE FOR ALL on the FTL BBS... No respect for ANYONE. Wheeeeeeeee!!!!

Dude, modding is a thankless task. I gave it up for similar reasons over at another forum.

Don't take it all to heart - bear in mind that t'internet is what t'internet does. It's very rare to find reality or sincerity online. I just enjoy it for what it is.

Good luck and sorry you got burned out!

[hellbilly]

I know I won't be trying to act like a moderator anymore - it's a FREE FOR ALL on the FTL BBS... No respect for ANYONE. Wheeeeeeeee!!!!

For better or worse, I was attacked when I first came here but I stuck around anyway.

[The Muslim Agorist]

I would feel very ashamed of myself if I was to subscribe to a god who raped and pillaged.

Me too… evidence?

Even if god (or whatever name you wish to give to your chosen sky-deity) did exist (and the evidence against such is heavily weighted) I wouldn't worship him - what's written about him disgusts me.

Heavily weighted? You’re really only responding to Christian books and Christian concepts… so I’m not totally sure what this has to do with God. I don’t accept the Bible as an inerrant document. The Quran is clear that atrocities were added to justify the wishes of men seeking power. Also... I don't believe Allah lives in the sky.

In fact, the very act of worship is against liberty, and personal responsibility, in my opinion. However, the act of respecting others' rights to worship is VERY MUCH what liberty is about.

I don’t think this makes any sense… worship is a voluntary interaction… how can be antithetical to liberty?

Al Baqara 2:256 “Let there be no compulsion in religion”

If god was any more just than a human monarch, he wouldn't use FORCE to STEAL and PILLAGE, yet he very clearly sanctions those very things A LOT in the old testement.

I don’t accept the Torah as an inerrant document. It is, in part, the work of blood thirsty men seeking power. That’s all… Your concept of God is very human… You seem to want to hold Him morally responsible for things written in old books. My concept of God is that He is the agent of all events. Like the invisible hand of the market place. You don’t blame the Hand when a market correction puts you out of work… and if you do, it’s not morally responsible.

I've studied theology to degree level

Where, and to what degree? No disrespect, but you don’t convey that expertise… unless perhaps you studied in a Christian seminary and not in a secular school.

Again, Gene’s thesis, and certainly mine, is not predicated on anyone accepting the Biblical god. It’s predicated on the idea that mankind is not rightfully sovereign over one another… but that a Creator, by whatever conception people hold, is the only authority rightfully served, and even then, only voluntarily.

[hellbilly]

Again, Gene’s thesis, and certainly mine, is not predicated on anyone accepting the Biblical god. It’s predicated on the idea that mankind is not rightfully sovereign over one another… but that a Creator, by whatever conception people hold, is the only authority rightfully served, and even then, only voluntarily.

..precisely why these ideas are in question.

[hellbilly]

 

[youtube=425,350]eVMKBOANOc0[/youtube]

[Taors]

I know I won't be trying to act like a moderator anymore - it's a FREE FOR ALL on the FTL BBS... No respect for ANYONE. Wheeeeeeeee!!!!

Dude, modding is a thankless task. I gave it up for similar reasons over at another forum.

Don't take it all to heart - bear in mind that t'internet is what t'internet does. It's very rare to find reality or sincerity online. I just enjoy it for what it is.

Good luck and sorry you got burned out!

I would have thanked him if he had been doing something actually worth thanking for.

[The Muslim Agorist]

Again, Gene’s thesis, and certainly mine, is not predicated on anyone accepting the Biblical god. It’s predicated on the idea that mankind is not rightfully sovereign over one another… but that a Creator, by whatever conception people hold, is the only authority rightfully served, and even then, only voluntarily.

..precisely why these ideas are in question.

What's the question? To me it's exactly the same idea as the mission statement of the FSP. Saying that the maximum role of government is the protection of life liberty and property does not necessarily mean one thinks there should be any government at all. Similarly, saying a Creator is the only authority rightfully served does not necessarily mean one believes in their Creator.

It really seems to me that the only people who have any problem with what Gene's talking about are the people who just can't tolerate anyone believing in God anywhere.

Hey Gene... if you're running for president... want a running mate?

[HOO-HAA]

I would feel very ashamed of myself if I was to subscribe to a god who raped and pillaged.

Me too… evidence?

Well, I can't speak for Allah as I've only studied judeo/ xian theology. However, from my limited understanding of Islam is that its branch-off from the older judeo-xian god came with Ishmael - right? Therefore, we're talking about the same deity, albeit diferent perceptions of such depending on one's faith.

The bible is full of injustice, mostly at the hands of god and/or sanctioned by god - I've covered this in previous posts but could give further evidence of such if you require it?

Here, take a look for yourself right here:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

As for the Quran - I've no personal knowledge of it, but some may find this of interest with regards to alleged cruelty and violence within its pages:

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/cruelty/long.html

Even if god (or whatever name you wish to give to your chosen sky-deity) did exist (and the evidence against such is heavily weighted) I wouldn't worship him - what's written about him disgusts me.

Heavily weighted? You’re really only responding to Christian books and Christian concepts… so I’m not totally sure what this has to do with God. I don’t accept the Bible as an inerrant document. The Quran is clear that atrocities were added to justify the wishes of men seeking power. Also... I don't believe Allah lives in the sky.

As stated, beforehand, I can't speak about the Quran as I haven't read it. Nor do I intend to - I had my fill of religion from a childhood steeped in the stuff. I'm happily married to atheism  

Also, the burden of proof is not really on me to prove 'xian/ islamic etc. anarchy is NOT the only sensible answer' but for you to prove it is, no? So, I guess in even having the conversation I'm being generous

In fact, the very act of worship is against liberty, and personal responsibility, in my opinion. However, the act of respecting others' rights to worship is VERY MUCH what liberty is about.

I don’t think this makes any sense… worship is a voluntary interaction… how can be antithetical to liberty?

Al Baqara 2:256 “Let there be no compulsion in religion”

Sure, I agree with you there - however, worship seems to me to be against personal reponsibility. Much of xian theology speaks of sin as humankind's failure to ever measure up to god's supposed standard of excellence. A typical reaction, in fundamentalist circles, is to see anything a person does to better themselves as irrelevant in the grand scale of things, therefore, in lieu of christ's redemptive work. To worship christ, therfore, is to deny oneself, it seems from the evangelical perception of theology.

I'm well aware that theological interpretations of biblical material (canonical and non-canonical - for the more pot-smoking version of the gospel, I'd highly recommend the gnostic gospel of thomas) are varied, however, I just can't see any way that the whole idea of worship of god can concur with liberty. Liberty is about individualism. Organised religion (and many smaller sects and cults) are about herd mentality - and often the metaphysical reasoning for practice/ doctrine is seen to puke all over common sense. Ironically, Gene often talks on FTL about the government cult-members when he is a member of one of the biggest and most successful cults the western world has ever seen - xianity.    

If god was any more just than a human monarch, he wouldn't use FORCE to STEAL and PILLAGE, yet he very clearly sanctions those very things A LOT in the old testement.

I don’t accept the Torah as an inerrant document. It is, in part, the work of blood thirsty men seeking power. That’s all… Your concept of God is very human… You seem to want to hold Him morally responsible for things written in old books. My concept of God is that He is the agent of all events. Like the invisible hand of the market place. You don’t blame the Hand when a market correction puts you out of work… and if you do, it’s not morally responsible.

You're speaking like a deist, now - your comment here suggests you believe in a non-interventional god.

Am I understanding you, correctly?

Do you believe the quran is inerrant?

I've studied theology to degree level

Where, and to what degree? No disrespect, but you don’t convey that expertise… unless perhaps you studied in a Christian seminary and not in a secular school.

I studied religion (mostly judeo/ xian) at a teaching college as part of my BEd. I'm arguing mostly from a common sense perspective on this thread, however, because most of what I studied in theology I found to be, ultimately, useless.

The ultimate problem with theology, for me, is that it offers nothing concrete in terms of proof - copper-bottomed proof - in favour of what I would only describe, at best, as quasi-intellectual masturbation.

Where does your 'expertise' come from?

[ChristianAnarchist]

Sure.  I don't accept that God is behavior is equal or worse than any human monarch.  If I did, I sure wouldn't be looking up to Him...

So, you just ignore all of the god-sanctioned baby-killing, raping and pillaging of the OT? From what I've read (and I've studied theology to degree level) bible-god makes any and every human monarch look like a rank amateur when it comes to FORCE, STEAL and PILLAGE.

I'm afraid your logic, for me, doesn't stand up to critique, Gene. Not from a common sense point of view, nor an ideological point of view. At best, you worship god because you make some kind of theological sense out of the ragtag, second-rate horror epic that is the bible. At worst, you actually believe in god and, simply, will accept anything from him/her/it out of misguided loyalty or fear.

Wow!!  Since you're edumacated to the "degree" level and I can't even spell, I don't know why I need to talk to you.  It's quite obvious that you are on a much higher plane than I am.  I really should be just worshiping you instead of God (not).  One thing I've learned over my lifetime is that having a degree sure doesn't guarantee that one excels in "common sense".  At any rate, most of you here keep ragging on how the Bible is not accurate and that's all fine and dandy among you until I also state that I do not accept some areas of the Bible, then it's "inconsistent".  Funny how that works...

[ChristianAnarchist]

Again, Gene’s thesis, and certainly mine, is not predicated on anyone accepting the Biblical god. It’s predicated on the idea that mankind is not rightfully sovereign over one another… but that a Creator, by whatever conception people hold, is the only authority rightfully served, and even then, only voluntarily.

..precisely why these ideas are in question.

What's the question? To me it's exactly the same idea as the mission statement of the FSP. Saying that the maximum role of government is the protection of life liberty and property does not necessarily mean one thinks there should be any government at all. Similarly, saying a Creator is the only authority rightfully served does not necessarily mean one believes in their Creator.

It really seems to me that the only people who have any problem with what Gene's talking about are the people who just can't tolerate anyone believing in God anywhere.

Hey Gene... if you're running for president... want a running mate?

Maybe I should be yours...

[The Muslim Agorist]

Hey Gene... if you're running for president... want a running mate?

Maybe I should be yours...
[/quote]

We could run against each other.... that'd be interesting.

[BonerJoe]

Hey Gene... if you're running for president... want a running mate?

Maybe I should be yours...

We could run against each other.... that'd be interesting.
[/quote]

The radical muslims will put a bomb in your Rice Krispies.