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theCelestrian

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1485 on: March 13, 2007, 12:45:00 AM »

Sorry guys, I can't help myself:

Quote
Also, I've stated in the past and I'm re-iterating it now for the uninformed that there is no way to "prove" God (or to disprove) and that is not  now nor has it ever been my intent.  Such an attempt would be fools folly.

Alright, Gene.  I respect this position.  You have just admitted that you cannot prove, nor disprove the existence of God, nor can we conclude the prediction of the "big bang/big crunch" theory until we have measurement and observation. Alright, we're on the same page so far.

So let's sum this up:

1. God can niether be proved nor disproved. (I contend we'll never be able to, other disagree)
2. Trying to Prove the existence of God is a fool's folly.
3. A "fool's folly" is not a "sensible" course of action.

So:

How is Christian Anarchy the only "sensible" answer again?
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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1486 on: March 13, 2007, 01:11:31 AM »

Because I place my "faith" in a Creator/Father who I believe made us and cares for us.  I have no "faith" in fellow men having some pretend authority over me by virtue of their unfounded "belief" in a "fictious" entity called "government".  Now although I cannot prove or disprove the existance of God, I can and have proven that "government" is a fiction and those who believe in it are exhibiting cult like behaviour...

theCelestrian

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1487 on: March 13, 2007, 01:42:45 AM »

Quote
Because I place my "faith" in a Creator/Father who I believe made us and cares for us.

Alright, that's fine, as long as you recognize that this is indeed "faith," which is not necessarily nor inherantly sensible.

Quote
I have no "faith" in fellow men having some pretend authority over me by virtue of their unfounded "belief" in a "fictious" entity called "government".

Again, also fine.  I have my own quandries about anarchy which I've already covered, but it least in desire you and I are on the same page on this point.

Quote
Now although I cannot prove or disprove the existance of God, I can and have proven that "government" is a fiction and those who believe in it are exhibiting cult like behaviour...

Here is where you and I part ways.  Simply because God is still (always will be) an "unproven value" does not all of the sudden render it "valid" when placed next to a value that has been widely agreed to be (at least on this forum) a "fiction."  I can't prove that what you would consider to be "Satan" is the "one true god" or not, and that his "anti-morality" is the one morality designed for man, does that make a "satanic anarchy" (or insert any religion of your choice here) more "sensible" than government?

It would seem "sensible" to treat all unkown values as just that, "unknown".... and to try and limit (or eliminate entirely) these from the foundations of our logic and reasoning.  As I said before, I'll never know if God exists, so he/she/it doesn't enter my "equations" in my daily life or how I relate to other human beings.

--------------------------
Interesting you mention "cult like" behavior, which the entymology of that concept is a religious one.  Can I also make the inferrence that the vast majority of Christians, Jews, Muslims, [insert religion of you choice here] are also exhibiting "cult like" behavior?

If so, how does this make a "religious" faith more sensible than a "secular" one?
If not, please explain to me how it isn't, as it seems what you're talking about with your "faith" and the "faith" of others in government are similiar, if not the same.
--------------------------

Summation: I can't see how you can make the claim of fact that "Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer" when the very pillar of your position rests upon something that is subjective, unprovable and ultimately circular in nature.  It's also something that niether you nor I will convince each other of, so I can respect your position and understand at the end of the day, we're both human beings and we both want more freedoms.

...but isn't it interesting that I don't need a "God" or "faith" to come to that conclusion? ;)

Wouldn't "Anarchy" be a more sensible answer?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 01:46:56 AM by theCelestrian »
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ladyattis

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1488 on: March 13, 2007, 01:44:33 AM »

<Gene-The-Christian-Anarchist> NO IT WOULD NOT, SIR! YOU NEED MORE JESUS! </Gene-The-Christian-Anarchist> :lol:

-- Bridget
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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1489 on: March 13, 2007, 10:06:29 AM »

Quote
Because I place my "faith" in a Creator/Father who I believe made us and cares for us.

Alright, that's fine, as long as you recognize that this is indeed "faith," which is not necessarily nor inherantly sensible.

It is not "necessarily" or "inherantly" sensible, but it can be sensible.  Every unknown throughout history was once considered unsensible until it was proven to be true.  I part ways with you when you claim that we will never know, because I believe that every man will come face-to-face with our Creator some day.  On that day (granted it is only a "belief" right now) I think we could at least agree that it would be "proven".
Quote

Quote
I have no "faith" in fellow men having some pretend authority over me by virtue of their unfounded "belief" in a "fictious" entity called "government".

Again, also fine.  I have my own quandries about anarchy which I've already covered, but it least in desire you and I are on the same page on this point.

Quote
Now although I cannot prove or disprove the existance of God, I can and have proven that "government" is a fiction and those who believe in it are exhibiting cult like behaviour...

Here is where you and I part ways.  Simply because God is still (always will be) an "unproven value" does not all of the sudden render it "valid" when placed next to a value that has been widely agreed to be (at least on this forum) a "fiction."  I can't prove that what you would consider to be "Satan" is the "one true god" or not, and that his "anti-morality" is the one morality designed for man, does that make a "satanic anarchy" (or insert any religion of your choice here) more "sensible" than government?

Yes, I believe that "satanic anarchy" or any other religious choice, would be more sensible than the cult of government...
Quote


It would seem "sensible" to treat all unkown values as just that, "unknown".... and to try and limit (or eliminate entirely) these from the foundations of our logic and reasoning.

And we would not have any of the "discoveries" of the past that prior to the "event" of their discoveries, were "unknown"...
Quote

--------------------------
Interesting you mention "cult like" behavior, which the entymology of that concept is a religious one.  Can I also make the inferrence that the vast majority of Christians, Jews, Muslims, [insert religion of you choice here] are also exhibiting "cult like" behavior?

If so, how does this make a "religious" faith more sensible than a "secular" one?
If not, please explain to me how it isn't, as it seems what you're talking about with your "faith" and the "faith" of others in government are similiar, if not the same.
--------------------------

Becase a secular view puts your faith in your fellow man to rule over you.  I'd rather put my faith in the Easter Bunny than in G.W.  My faith is in an omnipotent omnipowerful perfect Creator.  Sounds better to me...
Quote

Summation: I can't see how you can make the claim of fact that "Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer" when the very pillar of your position rests upon something that is subjective, unprovable and ultimately circular in nature.  It's also something that niether you nor I will convince each other of, so I can respect your position and understand at the end of the day, we're both human beings and we both want more freedoms.

...but isn't it interesting that I don't need a "God" or "faith" to come to that conclusion? ;)

Wouldn't "Anarchy" be a more sensible answer?

Anarchy is a more sensible answer for how man relates to man.  The "Christian" part is for how man relates to eternity...
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 10:08:42 AM by ChristianAnarchist »
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theCelestrian

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1490 on: March 13, 2007, 10:24:08 AM »

I like this response, Gene.  You actually addressed everything I said:

Quote
It is not "necessarily" or "inherantly" sensible, but it can be sensible.

Sure.

Quote
Every unknown throughout history was once considered unsensible until it was proven to be true.

True, to a point.  Religion and government aside, the difference is those "unknowns" are explored, not practiced, until "proven."  It's only when they're proven (ideally) that we use it as part of our day-to-day existence.

Quote
Yes, I believe that "satanic anarchy" or any other religious choice, would be more sensible than the cult of government...

Hmmm.  Consistent answer at least.

Quote
And we would not have any of the "discoveries" of the past that prior to the "event" of their discoveries, were "unknown"...

I addressed this above, like I said, it's a good point.... to a point.

Quote
Becase a secular view puts your faith in your fellow man to rule over you.  I'd rather put my faith in the Easter Bunny than in G.W.  My faith is in an omnipotent omnipowerful perfect Creator.  Sounds better to me...

This still revolves around faith.  Why not embrace the reality that there is no one fit to rule over me (in all of "eternity" or "existence") but myself?  I can't control the actions of others, nor can I "get the lowdown" from "God."  So why is faith necessary, and how is a dogmatic adherence to an unknown not "cult like behavior?"

I'd rather put faith in myself than either the E.B., G.W., J.C., M.i.B, T.L.C, M&M, etc...

Quote
Anarchy is a more sensible answer for how man relates to man.  The "Christian" part is for how man relates to eternity...

Anarchy: Okay, "more sensible" ... for the purpose of my question this works.
Christian:  Still not quite clear on how this is the "only sensible answer."

I don't mind discussing theology and metaphysics with you, if this is where you want to go, but I would suggest having a new thread for that one, since this relates to C.A. being the "only sensible answer."
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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1491 on: March 13, 2007, 10:51:33 AM »

Ah, but my "Christianity" is an integral part of my "anarchy".  In the past I stated on air that I wanted help in choosing a name for a "Christian Anarchist" church...

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=5122.0

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1492 on: March 13, 2007, 12:06:41 PM »

This thread is too fucking loong!!!

I don't even want to look at any of the post before I reply to urge you people to stop this thread...

Now christian anarchy specially christian anarcho-communism is not the sensible answer. Everything is wrong with the idea from start to beginning. But as long as you don't force me to become a christian anarcho-communist(assumption based on your avatar). I am fine with people wanting to live such a life. I don't want to live in a state of delusion that superstitution such as religion is for all what I consider nor do I want to live in a society where I have no property rights. Just want work for me and many others, that in itself is the most sensible clue to why christian anarchy isn't the sensible answer!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 12:11:17 PM by lordmetroid »
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theCelestrian

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1493 on: March 13, 2007, 12:17:54 PM »



OH MY SCIENCE!
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ladyattis

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1494 on: March 13, 2007, 12:23:47 PM »

The funny thing I find about Gene is that he needs faith to validate things rather than rational discourse and empirical observation.

Lets take rights for example. Do they come from on high or do folks debate about the nature of rights, how they evolve, and then formulate theories about all this [their nature, their evolution, and their application]? Clearly folks do in one form or another, but not Gene. He wants a Sky-Daddy/Nanny to wipe his ass rather than stand on his own two feet. This is why I gave up on debating Gene and started insulting him, because that is the only thing he understands.

I'm considering calling into the show just to playfully taunt Gene on-air to see if he's willing to debate me some other time on the show if he dares, because this fellow needs to be exposed to more than his shit-laden Bible if he is to be any use to his possible progeny.

-- Bridget
« Last Edit: March 13, 2007, 12:25:18 PM by ladyattis »
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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1495 on: March 13, 2007, 08:53:40 PM »

This thread is this thread.  Those who feel it's too long merely need to not read it or post in it.  The owners of this bbs have seen fit to make this forum a "free speach" forum and as such, none of you have any power to censor what is posted here.  Lord knows there's plenty of garbage here that I find "offensive" and ignorant.  I could spend my time posting to those threads about how offensive or stupid they are, but that would be a waste of my time and certainly not my business since the bbs "gods" have deemed that all posts are valid.  It would be nice (although I know better than to expect) that those who find this thread offensive would just leave it alone, but I know that will not happen.

So I continue to ignore anyone who posts just to be offensive or abusive and respond whenever and however I feel. 

Peace ya'all...

theghostofbj

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1496 on: March 13, 2007, 08:56:01 PM »

Gene. You just need a good assbanging. I'm serious. You're welcome at my place any time. Just bring lube. And Playgirls.
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ReverendRyan

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1497 on: March 13, 2007, 08:57:30 PM »

No, this thread is a yarn.

yarn  (yƤrn)  n. 

   1. A continuous strand of twisted threads of natural or synthetic material, such as wool or nylon, used in weaving or knitting.
   2. Informal A long, often elaborate narrative of real or fictitious adventures; an entertaining tale.
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aquabanianskakid

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1498 on: March 13, 2007, 08:57:46 PM »

Gene has a point guys. As stubborn and bull headed as the old fart is, he is right. Let it be, don't argue with him. This is his kingdom, just ignore it.
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theghostofbj

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1499 on: March 13, 2007, 08:59:50 PM »

King of the castle, king of the castle.
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