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theCelestrian

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1470 on: March 11, 2007, 06:57:41 PM »

Sure, Gene, but there's other part of the allegory you seem to either be missing or ignoring.

1. In this Allegory, there's at least 3 "gods" (the programmer, the hardware manufacturer, and the IDE developer(s)) - with the strong likelyhood of more (I didnt take into account the chip designers, Hard Drive Manufacturers, RAM manufactueres....etc).  These are all seperate entities.  Does this mean that "polytheism" is the more "sensible" answer?

2. "Free will" is a fiction that is "concluded" as a result of looking through the "computiverse" from the inside (an example of this: "centrifugal" force; which is merely "centripital" force observe from the perspective of the moving object, or similarly the "coriolis" effect), when one of those "variables" consisting of a collection of single electrical pulses is being "random" or "contrary" to the rest of the variables, that's exactly what I wanted it to do, even if it thinks and other "variables" tell it otherwise.

3. It's just allegory.  Maybe it's a good analogy for what you're trying to prove, but it's still not exactly the same.  I had lots of tools not of my design, making, knowledge or expertise that was needed to make this program run.  Add electricity and a multitude of other "computiverses" out there to the mix, and while I might be "God" of the program, I was merely one conciousness that was able to create something in a limited capacity, which combined with others to create the "grand design".

4. My central point was, and is, is that even IF God existed, looking on the inside of "his creation" means that we'll never be able to know or prove if he/she/it really did it, or if it's a series of actions not by random chance or actions, but a physical universe that follows a set of mechanical laws that are intrinsic to this state of being.  I'll cover this a little more in a second.

Therefore, I don't need to look to God to make my life more fulfilling or give my existence "purpose."

Quote
Random actions bring about disorder not order

1. Every action brings more disorder to the Universe.  See:  Second Law of Thermodynamics -> entropy. 

2. You mentioned Chaos Theory, I would point to Quantum Mechanics instead - your CRT TV works around the fact that we can't measure or predict the path the electrons take when they are shot out of the the Cathode - thus as far as we know... it's completely random, but it somehow works and creates perfectly ordered "pictures" that our brains can translate.

3. Maybe there's a "big crunch" as the result of gravitational forces slowly and inexorably coalescing in a timeframe far to long for me to comprehend, but I don't know.  We can make "predictions," but those are just that until they are verified with observation and measurement...and again we're still within "the box" so to speak.

------------------------------

Again: I don't know, I'll never know, and really, niether will you.  However, I'm not really stoked on the idea of a wrathful, jealous God who is going to scratch my name from the book of Life because I simply was using the brain he/she/it "gave me" and lived my life as his "omnipotence" intended (see point #2).  :?

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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1471 on: March 11, 2007, 07:37:31 PM »

I also do not see God as a vengeful God but rather a loving merciful one.  There is much written about hell that I think is more allegory than an actual place. 

It is not possible to "prove" that God acted.  I've never stated that I could.  I think that He has left us "clues" to His existance within the "program" He created and we just need to be receptive to them.  I do believe that He acts sometimes in supernatural ways that each individual can experience and use to verify His existance.  These are personal experiences and they comonly are explained away as "chance" or "luck" and in many cases they may be just that - but not all. 

In your programming example there is "polythesm" in that there are many "creators" for your program to work.  However, if you were the one who created the electricity, hard drives, displays, and etc, then it would be a better example of what I believe God has done.

ReverendRyan

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1472 on: March 11, 2007, 08:41:36 PM »

You still have not addressed my argument. Is that because it will send your precious little delusion crashing down?
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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1473 on: March 12, 2007, 09:35:35 AM »

I'm not sure of which argument you are referring but I did address the last one here:

http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=11164.msg214903#msg214903

If that's not it, give me a link...

ReverendRyan

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1474 on: March 12, 2007, 03:02:04 PM »

No, you haven't.

Truly this is the mystery of creation that our puny minds cannot fathom.

Since when is saying "I don't fucking know" addressing an issue? Your god is invisible, right? So wise up to the obvious fact that you can't hide behind it.

Any "proving" this point with yet another example of unsubstantiated theories of yours? "Creation from nothing" is yet another xian idea. The big bang theory only attempts to explain formation of the current configuration of the universe, and it never claims creation from nothing.

In fact, the model only works if it is admitted that matter has always existed. If you can believe that about your god, then why not about something real?
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ladyattis

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1475 on: March 12, 2007, 03:03:15 PM »

I AM GOING TO FUTA/TRAP BOMB THIS THREAD IF IT KEEPS GOING

-- Bridget
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ReverendRyan

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1476 on: March 12, 2007, 03:11:02 PM »

He'll keep bumping it and hapless noobs will get sucked in anyways, so I'm killing two birds with one stone: keeping him occupied and keeping myself entertained.
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ladyattis

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...(NSFW)
« Reply #1477 on: March 12, 2007, 03:15:14 PM »

THAT'S IT!!!!!!!



TRAP BOMB AWAY!

-- Bridget
« Last Edit: March 12, 2007, 03:17:15 PM by ladyattis »
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ladyattis

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1478 on: March 12, 2007, 03:18:20 PM »

Made ya look! :-P
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Timothy

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...(NSFW)
« Reply #1479 on: March 12, 2007, 08:05:10 PM »

THAT'S IT!!!!!!!



TRAP BOMB AWAY!

-- Bridget

Just remember these helpful words: "When the light is green, the trap is clean"
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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1480 on: March 12, 2007, 11:33:10 PM »

No, you haven't.

Truly this is the mystery of creation that our puny minds cannot fathom.

Since when is saying "I don't fucking know" addressing an issue? Your god is invisible, right? So wise up to the obvious fact that you can't hide behind it.

Any "proving" this point with yet another example of unsubstantiated theories of yours? "Creation from nothing" is yet another xian idea. The big bang theory only attempts to explain formation of the current configuration of the universe, and it never claims creation from nothing.

In fact, the model only works if it is admitted that matter has always existed. If you can believe that about your god, then why not about something real?

First of all "I don't know" is a legitimate answer especially if one does not know.   Secondly, the rest of that post pointed out that the same quandry exists for the "scientific" view of a "big bang" followed by a "big crunch"...

ReverendRyan

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1481 on: March 12, 2007, 11:48:42 PM »

Ok you stupid fucker, read what I just fucking said.
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ladyattis

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1482 on: March 13, 2007, 12:15:50 AM »

Ok you stupid fucker, read what I just fucking said.

He won't since you're gay. :lol:

-- Bridget
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theghostofbj

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1483 on: March 13, 2007, 12:16:50 AM »

Die thread, die.
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ChristianAnarchist

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #1484 on: March 13, 2007, 12:20:07 AM »

Look, what you are writing (that matter always exisited) is not what the "big bang" is about.  The claim is that prior to the event, there was no universe, no time, no matter.

If that's not what the theory is, then please explain it to me.  I still say that the same "problem" exists for a scientific explanation as for a religious one...;

Also, I've stated in the past and I'm re-iterating it now for the uninformed that there is no way to "prove" God (or to disprove) and that is not  now nor has it ever been my intent.  Such an attempt would be fools folly.
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