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eukreign

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2005, 05:30:55 PM »

Christian, we can do whatever the hell we want, so long as we do not violate the life, liberty, and property of another American, which is what our constitutional government was set up to protect, and is what we should be fighting to restore.

What about taxes? Would there be mandatory taxes in your envisioned society? How would you force people to pay them without violating their "life, liberty and property"?
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BKO

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2005, 05:38:19 PM »

Christian, we can do whatever the hell we want, so long as we do not violate the life, liberty, and property of another American, which is what our constitutional government was set up to protect, and is what we should be fighting to restore.

What about taxes? Would there be mandatory taxes in your envisioned society? How would you force people to pay them without violating their "life, liberty and property"?
WTF are you rambling on about?  Taxes?  There is no necessity for taxation, and if Congress decides to levy one, then only they can do so, NOT a privately owned and operated IRS based out of Puert Rico.  Only Congress can tax us, friend.  We, the People comprise Congress.  My only change to the system in this regard is to make it clear that the 14th and 16th amendments are illegal and not ratified, and place term limits on Congress as well as make it impossible for us to deal in fractional reserve banking and borrowing of money, and reinstitute a fully American backed currency with silver only.

Have I lost you yet?

eukreign

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2005, 05:40:13 PM »

Christian, we can do whatever the hell we want, so long as we do not violate the life, liberty, and property of another American, which is what our constitutional government was set up to protect, and is what we should be fighting to restore.

What about taxes? Would there be mandatory taxes in your envisioned society? How would you force people to pay them without violating their "life, liberty and property"?
WTF are you rambling on about?  Taxes?  There is no necessity for taxation, and if Congress decides to levy one, then only they can do so, NOT a privately owned and operated IRS based out of Puert Rico.  Only Congress can tax us, friend.  We, the People comprise Congress.  My only change to the system in this regard is to make it clear that the 14th and 16th amendments are illegal and not ratified, and place term limits on Congress as well as make it impossible for us to deal in fractional reserve banking and borrowing of money, and reinstitute a fully American backed currency with silver only.

Have I lost you yet?

Without taxes who will fund your military?
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BKO

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2005, 05:40:55 PM »

Christian, we can do whatever the hell we want, so long as we do not violate the life, liberty, and property of another American, which is what our constitutional government was set up to protect, and is what we should be fighting to restore.

What about taxes? Would there be mandatory taxes in your envisioned society? How would you force people to pay them without violating their "life, liberty and property"?
WTF are you rambling on about? Taxes? There is no necessity for taxation, and if Congress decides to levy one, then only they can do so, NOT a privately owned and operated IRS based out of Puert Rico. Only Congress can tax us, friend. We, the People comprise Congress. My only change to the system in this regard is to make it clear that the 14th and 16th amendments are illegal and not ratified, and place term limits on Congress as well as make it impossible for us to deal in fractional reserve banking and borrowing of money, and reinstitute a fully American backed currency with silver only.

Have I lost you yet?

Without taxes who will fund your military?
Who funded Lincoln's military?

eukreign

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #19 on: August 11, 2005, 05:41:42 PM »

Who funded Lincoln's military?

I don't know. Who?
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BKO

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #20 on: August 11, 2005, 05:46:34 PM »

The people of the United States invested in bonds for the greenbacks.  The money in which we printed, NOT the federal reserve. ;)

eukreign

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #21 on: August 11, 2005, 05:51:34 PM »

The people of the United States invested in bonds for the greenbacks.  The money in which we printed, NOT the federal reserve. ;)

Who will pay for the police, judges, public buildings, etc?
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BKO

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #22 on: August 11, 2005, 05:56:53 PM »

The people of the United States invested in bonds for the greenbacks. The money in which we printed, NOT the federal reserve. ;)

Who will pay for the police, judges, public buildings, etc?
Good questions.  You must understand, that our wealth will be incredible, because there will be no interest on the currency at all.  Perhaps this true story will clue you in a little:

Otto von Bismark chancellor of Germany 1876 On the 12th of April 1861 this economic war began. Predictably Lincoln, needing money to finance his war effort, went with his secretary of the treasury to New York to apply for the necessary loans. The money changers wishing the Union to fail offered loans at 24% to 36%. Lincoln declined the offer. An old friend of Lincoln's, Colonel Dick Taylor of Chicago was put in charge of solving the problem of how to finance the war. His solution is recorded as this. "Just get Congress to pass a bill authorising the printing of full legal tender treasury notes... and pay your soldiers with them and go ahead and win your war with them also."
-Colonel Dick Taylor

When Lincoln asked if the people of America would accept the notes Taylor said. "The people or anyone else will not have any choice in the matter, if you make them full legal tender. They will have the full sanction of the government and be just as good as any money; as Congress is given that express right by the Constitution."
-Colonel Dick Taylor

Lincoln agreed to try this solution and printed 450 million dollars worth of the new bills using green ink on the back to distinguish them from other notes. "The government should create, issue and circulate all the currency and credit needed to satisfy the spending power of the government and the buying power of consumers..... The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the supreme prerogative of Government, but it is the Government's greatest creative opportunity. By the adoption of these principles, the long-felt want for a uniform medium will be satisfied. The taxpayers will be saved immense sums of interest, discounts and exchanges. The financing of all public enterprises, the maintenance of stable government and ordered progress, and the conduct of the Treasury will become matters of practical administration. The people can and will be furnished with a currency as safe as their own government. Money will cease to be the master and become the servant of humanity. Democracy will rise superior to the money power."


One of the greatest moments in the history of the United States.  We can still do it again.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2005, 05:58:37 PM by Brokor »
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BKO

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #23 on: August 11, 2005, 06:03:08 PM »

How did we lose this great opportunity you ask?

Lincoln needed just a bit more money to win the war, and seeing him in this vulnerable state, and knowing that the president could not get the congressional authority to issue more greenbacks, the money changers proposed the passing of the National Bank Act. The act went through. From this point on the entire US money supply would be created out of debt by bankers buying US government bonds and issuing them from reserves for bank notes. The greenbacks continued to be in circulation until 1994, their numbers were not increased but in fact decreased.

"In numerous years following the war, the Federal Government ran a heavy surplus. It could not (however) pay off its debt, retire its securities, because to do so meant there would be no bonds to back the national bank notes. To pay off the debt was to destroy the money supply." -John Kenneth Galbrath

The American economy has been based on government debt since 1864 and it is locked into this system. Talk of paying off the debt without first reforming the banking system is just talk and a complete impossibility. That same year Lincoln had a pleasant surprise. Turns out the Tsar of Russia, Alexander II, was well aware of the money changers scam. The Tsar was refusing to allow them to set up a central bank in Russia. If Lincoln could limit the power of the money changers and win the war, the bankers would not be able to split America and hand it back to Britain and France as planned. The Tsar knew that this handing back would come at a cost which would eventually need to be paid back by attacking Russia, it being clearly in the money changers sights. The Tsar declared that if France or Britain gave help to the South, Russia would consider this an act of war. Britain and France would instead wait in vain to have the wealth of the colonies returned to them, and while they waited Lincoln won the civil war. With an election coming up the next year, Lincoln himself would wait for renewed public support before reversing the National Bank Act he had been pressured into approving during the war. Lincoln's opposition to the central banks financial control and a proposed return to the gold standard is well documented. He would certainly have killed off the national banks monopoly had he not been killed himself only 41 days after being re-elected. The money changers were pressing for a gold standard because gold was scarce and easier to have a monopoly over. Much of this was already waiting in their hands and each gold merchant was well aware that what they really had could be easily made to seem like much much more. Silver would only widen the field and lower the share so they pressed for...

BKO

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #24 on: August 11, 2005, 06:05:33 PM »

THE RETURN OF THE GOLD STANDARD (1866 - 1881)
"Right after the Civil War there was considerable talk about reviving Lincoln's brief experiment with the Constitutional monetary system. Had not the European money-trust intervened, it would have no doubt become an established institution."-W.Cleon Skousen.

Even after his death, the idea that America might print its own debt free money set off warning bells throughout the entire European banking community. On April 12th in 1866, the American congress passed the Contraction Act, allowing the treasury to call in and retire some of Lincoln's greenbacks, With only the banks standing to gain from this, it's not hard to work out the source of this action. To give the American public the false impression that they would be better off under the gold standard, the money changers used the control they had to cause economic instability and panic the people. This was fairly easy to do by calling in existing loans and refusing to issue new ones, a tried and proven method of causing depression. They would then spread the word through the media they largely controlled that the lack of a single gold standard was the cause of the hardship which ensued, while all this time using the Contraction Act to lower the amount of money in circulation. It went from
$1.8 billion in circulation in 1866 allowing $50.46 per person,
to $1.3 billion in 1867 allowing $44.00 per person,
to $0.6 billion in 1876 making only $14.60 per person and down
to $0.4 billion only ten years later leaving only $6.67 per person
and a continually growing population. Most people believe the economists when they tell us that recessions and depressions are part of the natural flow, but in truth the money supply is controlled by a small minority who have always done so and will continue to do so if we let them. By 1872 the American public was beginning to feel the squeeze, so the Bank of England, scheming in the back rooms, sent Ernest Seyd, with lots of money to bribe congress into demonetising silver. Ernest drafted the legislation himself, which came into law with the passing of the Coinage Act, effectively stopping the minting of silver that year.


The Euopean bankers WOULD NOT stand for an America that could print its own money.  And the rest is history...

BKO

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #25 on: August 11, 2005, 06:11:32 PM »

References:

1. Lincoln By Emil Ludwig 1930, containing a letter from Lincoln, also reprinted in Glory to God and the Sucker Democracy A Manuscript Collection of the Letters of Charles H. Lanphier compiled by Charles C. Patton.
2. Abraham Lincoln. Senate document 23, Page 91. 1865.
3. Senator Daniel of Virginia, May 22, 1890, from a speech in Congress, to be found in the Congressional Record, page 5128, quoting from the Bankers Magazine of August, 1873
4. from a circular issued by authority of the Associated Bankers of New York, Philadelphia, and Boston signed by one James Buel, secretary, sent out from 247 Broadway, New York in 1877, to the bankers in all of the States

See also: http://www.wealth4freedom.com/creature.htm  For more in depth accounts further through history, including the creation of the Federal Reserve.

eukreign

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #26 on: August 11, 2005, 06:14:11 PM »

"Just get Congress to pass a bill authorising the printing of full legal tender treasury notes... and pay your soldiers with them and go ahead and win your war with them also."
-Colonel Dick Taylor

Backed by what?
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BKO

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #27 on: August 11, 2005, 06:20:33 PM »

"Just get Congress to pass a bill authorising the printing of full legal tender treasury notes... and pay your soldiers with them and go ahead and win your war with them also."
-Colonel Dick Taylor

Backed by what?
*sigh*  You really have no clue, do you?

It was a FIAT currency.  But, we printed it, and the American people used it faithfully until the year of our lord 1994 a.d.

eukreign

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2005, 06:25:51 PM »

"Just get Congress to pass a bill authorising the printing of full legal tender treasury notes... and pay your soldiers with them and go ahead and win your war with them also."
-Colonel Dick Taylor

Backed by what?
*sigh*  You really have no clue, do you?

It was a FIAT currency.  But, we printed it, and the American people used it faithfully until the year of our lord 1994 a.d.

There is no way in hell I would fight for having FIAT currency. Especially since the government would control how much of it is in circulation, how would they know how much of it should be in circulation?!

This is crazy!
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BKO

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Re: Christian Anarchy is the only sensible answer...
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2005, 06:28:19 PM »

It won the war.  It brought the most prosperous times in our history.  And, it still is the longest used currency ever in our history.

Don't be too quick to judge.  Educate yourself.  And thanks for the questions. ;)
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