The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: KitKat7 on January 28, 2006, 02:58:05 AM
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I'm stuck in a town full of ignorant people! To top it all off I'm stuck in high school, with a maturity level higher than most...What can i do, where can i go? I want to wake people up to how worthless our current state of government has become, i really do. Just the other day one of my teachers set me off by saying that he owned me. He didn't take to kindly to being shown up by a 16 year old, but what else can i do when no one will listen? Sure the occasional friend will ask a question but other than that i'm stummped! Seeing as i spend my time doing hours of homework (not including studying for tests) does anyone have any ideas for what i can do to spead the message of liberty and get more people interested? Please whatever your suggestion is don't say the school news paper because that is written by the journalism class and the teachers seem to attack anyone who tries to, well, get people to stray away from original beliefs and think for themselves.
Can you help? ~Kat :|
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I'm stuck in a town full of ignorant people! To top it all off I'm stuck in high school, with a maturity level higher than most...What can i do, where can i go? ...Can you help? ~Kat :|
Three easy steps.
1. Stop liking Ian.
2. Get your daddy to relocate yall to New Hampshire.
3. ok, so it is just two steps...
PS Welcome to the FTL BBS Kat. High school is fucking hell. Welcome to the real world.
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Well you can always wear it. Buy stickers or buttons and wear them. If they are interesting enough people might ask you about them. Then you can tell them about the worlds smallest political quiz or give them the url for the Libertarian party. You can get speakers for your mp3 player and play best of FTL at lunch (I guess that might not still be allowed). You can print off the FTL flyers and tack them up on the public info boards at the public library or in some convience, grocery stores and especially WalMart right there at the exits. Post links to your favorite Libertarian web sites on you blog or myspace (great link resource is the Hammer of Truth).
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First off, my dad would never leave his family land. Second me and Ian agree on to much, ;) so that step is out TN_FSP. I have disscussed t-shirts 'n' things but my father has failed to make them as of yet. I thought about printing out fliers and taking them to school but appearently "it would be disruptive to the learning process", now doesn't that show how much the school cares about my education...lol...right. Hmmm...Wal-Mart or Mejiers, it kinda sad when thats the biggest dispute we have here, but yeah i think i could throw a few fliers up there. I don't use myspace, or anything like that, I don't have the time between cheer practice, school, homework, and chores. I think i once tried to discuss it with the team (and that didn't work well because every two seconds they were asking the meaning of a word, but i suppose thats why they are still in EverydayEnglish)
Another reason i don't use myspace or anything like that is because there to many people i know on there that hate me because i can acctually say that i care about politics and what the hell happens to our rights, and personally i don't feel like conforming to that so i can go to class and have nothing better to talk about except "did you check out myspace last night" that's all i hear and if i did do it, all i'd hear would be "eww Kat was on myspace....blah blah blah" though i do have alot of really close friends none are on myspace, etc. But i suppose it couldn't hurt to try eh?
Yeah, school is hell! ~Kat7
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Start planning to attend college in NH? Gives you a goal on which to focus, that whole light at the end of the tunnel thing. That should help a bit with boredom & frustration.
Plus, gives you the opportunity to talk up liberatrian principles & the free state project when discussing after HS plans with other kids, teachers & your parents. Because you know, the question will come up time and time again "Why New Hampshire?"
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Don't sweat it KitKat, I'm also in high school. There isn't much to do when everyone ignores what you have to say. I've stopped trying to convince other people, and I've decided I'm going to sit back and enjoy my last 2 years with my friends before I leave and probably never see them again.
Just focus on life after you get out of jail high school, and don't worry about all the socialists surrounding you.
They can squirm there for the rest of their lives while we move on to be free in NH.
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I'm glad to know someone is stuck in this never ending hell called school with me Gabo! :) I would love attending college in NH and that is a great idea, but i get 75% off my tuition if i attend Wester Michigan University...so i guess, that is a tough choice to make, personally i'd much rather live in NH and always be strapped for cash knowing i'm supporting something that will make a difference rather than stuck here for the rest of my college years.
I'd love to just sit back and enjoy life, but its so hard to keep myself from stepping up when the school tries to enforce something new that has nothing to do with education and its only goal is crush individualism. Sometimes i feel like the school is trying to brainwash us into doing whatever the governement wants; a good example being the way they react when you are told to write an opinion paper about bills, etc, and they don't take to kindly to that....but then again you'd know just as well as i huh, Gabo?
New Hampshire here i come...as soon as i graduate in 2008!!~Kat
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lmfao youre such a girl... every girl is too mature for everyone else because thats how women are.... theres one good thing you can do, get FTL on in michigan. Maybe itll help it spread down here to ohio which is being a pain in the ass when it comes to putting the show on. if you have access to some ink and paper just print out the flyers or call radio stations.
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Acctually, we are working on persuading a radio station right now...i'll let you know if anything comes of it.~Kat
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do you know off hand what company owns it?
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No, my dad would know that, when he gets home i'll ask him
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whats the stations call letters and city
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if i'm not mistaken its WKZO 590, Kalamazoo/Battle Creek. I could be wrong though~Kat
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meh, its fairfield broadcasting... ive never heard of them
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Oh, k
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Katriina,
Why college?
cheer practice
FTL has invaded the cheerleader squad! :lol: What do the other girls think of your political opinions?
Oh and in case anyone missed it, here's our "Cheeleader" :60 promo (http://freetalklive.com/files/FTLpromocheerleading.mp3).
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I have the same problems you do Kat. I've been suspended for getting a little too vocal with my ideas, even. >> I'm graduating this year, though, so at least I will be out of high school and into the slightly-less-mindrape college.
I know that quite a few of you suggest not going to college, but I've still not heard anything that would encourage me not to attend. Hopefully with all the AP tests that I have passed, I will start as a sophomore. If I rush I might be able to get a 4 year degree in two years, with all the experience I have already.
Sounds like a good topic for FTL: why you don't need college! *calls roll in*
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I've still not heard anything that would encourage me not to attend.
Don't let anybody talk you out of college. If it's not for you, you'll know soon enough. On the other hand, if you leave off your formal education and enter the Real World, and later want a degree, it will be a hell of a lot harder to go back to the no-money, fake-work environment. (Yes, "fake-work". No term project is ever as real as a product you sell to paying customers!)
What I would strongly suggest, though, is that you consider attending a college in New Hampshire:
http://freestateproject.org/community/nh_info.php#schools
If I rush I might be able to get a 4 year degree in two years, with all the experience I have already.
Sounds like a good topic for FTL: why you don't need college! *calls roll in*
fourthgeek, I know you are a computers & software guy.
I will say that I am a manager for a large software company, and I never, never hire people with PhD's from Ivy-league schools. In my experience, they are 100% useless, having only theoretical knowledge. In contrast, some of the most productive developers I have ever hired had a 2-year tech-school certificate, and taught themselves how to code.
The Ph.D's invariable tell me how something cannot be done -- while the ex-auto mechanic is coding up something that may be pretty dirty, but gets the job done.
Then again, I'm not exactly the "typical" hiring manager. Your Mileage Will Vary. :)
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I've considered college in NH, but it seems like I could do more for liberty by recruiting people outside of NH.
Right?
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it seems like I could do more for liberty by recruiting people outside of NH.
Good point! College campuses are full of idealistic people with time on their hands.
Be sure to check for the college's LP chapter, and/or if there's an Objectivist group there.
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The college I'm most interested in, University of Advancing Technology, has no political clubs, no philosophical clubs, pretty much just video game and computer related clubs. Kind of disappointing, but possibly an opportunity to capture the entire campus. I dunno.
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1. Allow me to craft you into a warrior the likes of which the world has never seen.
2. Allow me to take you a modestly priced eating establishment and some form of entertainment afterwards...
Im almost sure there is something about unleashing you upon the world and creating a new Libertarian order...
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:shock:
kay.
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I'm stuck in a town full of ignorant people!
Hey KitKat7, your whole town can't be ignorant. Remember, you are product of your surroundings which includes the thoughts, actions and teachings of your parents, brothers & sisters, whom are residents of this town.
First off, my dad would never leave his family land.
You are probably correct on this point. Family homeland can be a large hurdle.
I would love attending college in NH and that is a great idea, but i get 75% off my tuition if i attend Wester Michigan University...so i guess, that is a tough choice to make, personally i'd much rather live in NH and always be strapped for cash knowing i'm supporting something that will make a difference rather than stuck here for the rest of my college years.
I believe college would be a waste of money, time & energy. The only time I would even begin to consider college is if my chosen profession required a "license" and a degree was needed to get it. The time you would waste in college could be better used in an apprenticeship program or hands on technical school instead of sitting in a chair listening to and learning useless lecture and conjecture. Unless of course you want to be a politician, then you can use all of the useless lecture and conjecture you can find!
I can tell by your opinions and thoughts expressed in this forum that you are certainly a well rounded, free thinking individual. I'm certain your parents are proud of you and are obviously excellent people to have created such a person as yourself.
Instead of thinking of how bored you are in school, take heart in the fact that in a short time, you will be able to leave school and spend time with your friends and family. For they are the ones upon which you draw your personality and traits. In fact, I would suggest that when you get home from school, and read this post, that you get up and give your parents a :) hug :) and thank them for making you the person you are today! Without them, you may have turned into one of the sheeple in the large flock of US Citizens. :D
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First off, Dad (aka Spuds) sometimes you scare me. You know its because of you that i'm this way! Secondly, for what i plan to do with my life i do need a degree. What does the rest of the squad think of my political opinions? They think i'm insane and that i have a bad case of OCD. As for the cheeleader clip Ian, we don't "shake" anything, and infact we wear bodysuits, shells, and skirts that go to our mid-thigh. Has this dufuss even seen a compatition or is he just going on rumor? I mean we work harder than some of the teams we cheer for, during competative season that is. It really irks me when people say cheerleading isn't a sport and that its all about looks. Trust me, it ain't, for that matter we can't even have long nails or wear our hair down in uniform. Oh and BTW, if you want to see a sport about looks check out what the volleyball players wear (no offence to n e one, i used to play) they wear spandex that rides increadably high and all i can think is *hey nice buttcheeks* As for college, i dunno what i'm gonna do.....
*Does a standing backhandspring* I love FTL!
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Oh and BTW, if you want to see a sport about looks check out what the volleyball players wear (no offence to n e one, i used to play) they wear spandex that rides increadably high and all i can think is *hey nice buttcheeks*
Pics plz? :lol:
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I believe college would be a waste of money, time & energy. The only time I would even begin to consider college is if my chosen profession required a "license" and a degree was needed to get it. The time you would waste in college could be better used in an apprenticeship program or hands on technical school instead of sitting in a chair listening to and learning useless lecture and conjecture. Unless of course you want to be a politician, then you can use all of the useless lecture and conjecture you can find!
Without them, you may have turned into one of the sheeple in the large flock of US Citizens. :D
Hear, Hear, most college degrees are a total useless expense and the only real reason to go is to get into a profession.
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IMHO, those that think they need to go to college to live a happy life don't deserve to go.
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First off, Dad (aka Spuds)
Hey, you outed me...oh well - I'll still love you anyways! :wink:
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First off, Dad (aka Spuds)
Hey, you outed me...oh well - I'll still love you anyways! :wink:
Whoa, you are one cool father. I just 'Applauded' you a Kerma point ;)
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Spuds, you are a cool dad. You and Kat seem to have a very open and honest relationship. I hope my daughters turn out like Kat. :)
BTW - Love the ferret adoption site.
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First off, Dad (aka Spuds)
Hey, you outed me...oh well - I'll still love you anyways! :wink:
Whoa, you are one cool father. I just 'Applauded' you a Kerma point ;)
Thank you!
I'm just doing my best to raise my children as free-thinking free-spirited people. Only problem is, as a parent, free-thinking children are hard to control! I guess it's true that you get what you ask for!
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"Controlling" children doesn't seem to produce good results. Seems like you made some good choices, Spuds.
In regards to "family homeland", I have no allegiance to my family. My primary goal is my happiness, and that means I seek maximum Liberty. If my family doesn't get it, too bad for them.
What is more important, family or Liberty? Simple choice for me. I don't despise them or anything, they just have zero bearing or influence on my life decisions.
For some, family bonds are very important. I respect that, but don't understand it. Family is a group of strangers you are introduced to from birth. Some are good people, some aren't.
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My dad tried to control me and I became a bisexual tranny faerie. ^___^ Yay for queerness due to parenting, or atleast that is what the Christians say.
-- Bridget
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"Controlling" children doesn't seem to produce good results. Seems like you made some good choices, Spuds.
I knew "control" was not the word I wanted to use, but at the time, it was the only thing came to mind. I was trying to lean more toward "guide" or "manage"...something other than being a dictator with strict control on what is said and/or done. Kind of a laissez-faire type of parenting.
In regards to "family homeland", I have no allegiance to my family. My primary goal is my happiness, and that means I seek maximum Liberty. If my family doesn't get it, too bad for them.
By family homeland, I was referring to our farm land here in Michigan that has been handed down from generation to generation to generation. It's just something that would be very hard for me to walk away from and leave behind. Yea, I know, stupid tradition. I really have no family here other than my wife and children, so its not family ties I was aiming for, although I do understand your statement. It's my land until I die and pass it on to my children (or until the government decides they want it!) I any case, I own it, I do what I want on it, and to hell with anybody who does not like what I do on it!
What is more important, family or Liberty? Simple choice for me. I don't despise them or anything, they just have zero bearing or influence on my life decisions.
For some, family bonds are very important. I respect that, but don't understand it. Family is a group of strangers you are introduced to from birth. Some are good people, some aren't.
Good question! I'd have to say they are both equally important! Your family (or people who raised you to adulthood) were the ones who helped to mold you into the person you are today. Be it good or bad. Of course, the children on the playground, other adults in your neighborhood, the sexual predator next door and the drug dealer across the street all had a part in making you who & what you are, although not as much as your parents. They may have zero influence on your life now, but without the teachings of their morality and of what was (their) right or wrong while you were developing your persona, you wouldn't be thinking the way you are thinking now...hell, you could have turned out to be a Manwich...not that that is a bad thing Manwich!!! I'm just trying to make the point that we are all a product of our environment to some extent. With Liberty alone, I could be happy! With Liberty and the love of my family (along with their love of their Liberty), I could be even happier!
My dad tried to control me and I became a bisexual tranny faerie. ^___^ Yay for queerness due to parenting, or atleast that is what the Christians say.
-- Bridget
Cool!!!! As long as you're happy, I'm happy!! Do whatever you want as long as is does not involve me!! No offense intended, but I'd always heard the argument of "alternative sexuality" being something you were born with and not something you had learned or had any control over. Or is that just more Christian propaganda? Those darn Christians are just not happy unless they are persecuting someone for something or blaming others for their problems. Yea, I'm with Ian on this one - Atheist all the way!
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Yea, I'm with Ian on this one - Atheist all the way!
Ditto.
it's probably a bit offtopic, but I've started posting on The Brights (http://the-brights.net) bulletin board (http://the-brights.net/forums).
The Brights are Atheists, and I figure a lot of people there would be the perfect demographic for FTL and the Free State Project.
"Mom and Dad... I've come out of the closet. I'm a Bright!"
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Why do I want to commit suicide in fear of hoplessness when i read d_goddard's posts?
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First off, Dad (aka Spuds)
Hey, you outed me...oh well - I'll still love you anyways! :wink:
Awww.
Mine thinks I'm insane and radical and intend to commit mass murder at my school despite having no enemies to speak of. :?
I don't want no M-14! I just want my teenage queen!
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Why do I want to commit suicide in fear of hoplessness when i read d_goddard's posts?
Thank you, BJ.
I sometimes fear I post too much on this site;
now I know I need to post way, way more, because some real good may yet come of it :twisted:
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High School is pretty rough if your intelligent. I remember hating it, not wanting to conform or believe all the lies. It's tough but hang in get good grades and get out. Don't waste any time trying to teach the teachers, most of them have thier heads too far up thier ass to stop and listen. They feel like your just kid and have nothing to say, but they are wrong, so thier loss. Come to college in NH and fight the good fight, but don't come to Plymouth State University. That's where I go so school and it's worse than high school. A bunch of liberal knuckleheads crying to mommy government for protection. They don't want to be offended and so on, and you can actaully get suspended for saying fag if someone complains. All I hear all day is "they should outlaw that, outlaw this, out law out law and so on. It could be a problem with all schools who knows.
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High School is pretty rough if your intelligent. I remember hating it [...] Come to college in NH and fight the good fight
From one atheist to another... A-men, brother!
As far as Plymouth ...don't complain, either switch schools, or start up a Libertarian chapter where you are!!
Hell, there are activist Libertarians, even in ultra-left San Francisco (see my blog (http://freestatenlogs.net) for details).
If 90% of your school are statists, then 10% are NOT, and you should band together NOW!
To get started, how about just organizing Saturday night listenings of FTL? Maybe even hang out with some beers and play the FTL Drinking Game (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=1212.0)
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High School is pretty rough if your intelligent. I remember hating it [...] Come to college in NH and fight the good fight
But all the best schools are in New York, Massachusetts, and California.
Why is that, anyway?
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But all the best schools are in New York, Massachusetts, and California.
Ahem... I got my degrees in Computer Science and Chemical Engineering at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
Madison is one of the top-ranked schools in both.
Not trying to toot my own horn, just making the point that the "best" schools are not only in the places you listed.
Why is that, anyway?
Population density.
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High School is pretty rough if your intelligent. I remember hating it [...] Come to college in NH and fight the good fight
But all the best schools are in New York, Massachusetts, and California.
Why is that, anyway?
MA is known as the place to go to college. For example, you could live in NH, drive 1 mile over the board and go to the U of MA.
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Ahem... I got my degrees in Computer Science and Chemical Engineering at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
Madison is one of the top-ranked schools in both.
Not trying to toot my own horn, just making the point that the "best" schools are not only in the places you listed.
And they party wayyyyyy hard in Mad-town.
Don't forget Northwestern U. here in Evanston. And the U. of Chicago. Those are two of the finest schools in the nation.
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Don't forget Northwestern U. here in Evanston. And the U. of Chicago. Those are two of the finest schools in the nation.
Indeed! If I recall correctly, one of my Libertarian heroes Milton Friedman was at Chicago
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Don't forget Northwestern U. here in Evanston. And the U. of Chicago. Those are two of the finest schools in the nation.
Indeed! If I recall correctly, one of my Libertarian heroes Milton Friedman was at Chicago
You mean libertarian :D
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Yeah a small government Chicago School of Economics professor and all around good egg.
"The government's solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem." -Milton Friedman
And he was on the "Economic Today Series," on PBS. Good stuff but does need to be updated.
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Ahem... I got my degrees in Computer Science and Chemical Engineering at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
Madison is one of the top-ranked schools in both.
Not trying to toot my own horn, just making the point that the "best" schools are not only in the places you listed.
And they party wayyyyyy hard in Mad-town.
Don't forget Northwestern U. here in Evanston. And the U. of Chicago. Those are two of the finest schools in the nation.
Yup, Illinois has some good schools too.
There are a lot of good schools, but I was pointing out that the ones on the very top are concentrated in those states, although there's a smattering of others elsewhere too.
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Yeah a small government Chicago School of Economics professor and all around good egg.
"The government's solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem." -Milton Friedman
And he was on the "Economic Today Series," on PBS. Good stuff but does need to be updated.
Check this link:
http://www.freetochoose.com/
There are also a lot of teaser clips from the TV show he did at this link:
http://www.ideachannel.com/FreeToChoose.htm
As soon as my child is old enough (I figure 4th or 5th grade) I'll be ordering these DVDs.
Unless of course they are already being shown at the shool he'll be attending, which is a very strong possibility;
I live in New Hampshire, and there's a Montessori school near where I live (Concord) taught and owned by Capitalists, Objectivists, Libertarians and Free State Project members :D
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Would you be talking about Pathfinder Acedemy by any chance?
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Yeah a small government Chicago School of Economics professor and all around good egg.
"The government's solution to a problem is usually as bad as the problem." -Milton Friedman
And he was on the "Economic Today Series," on PBS. Good stuff but does need to be updated.
Check this link:
http://www.freetochoose.com/
There are also a lot of teaser clips from the TV show he did at this link:
http://www.ideachannel.com/FreeToChoose.htm
As soon as my child is old enough (I figure 4th or 5th grade) I'll be ordering these DVDs.
Unless of course they are already being shown at the shool he'll be attending, which is a very strong possibility;
I live in New Hampshire, and there's a Montessori school near where I live (Concord) taught and owned by Capitalists, Objectivists, Libertarians and Free State Project members :D
Now that sounds like a school I would feel comfortable sending my kids to.
I don't know much about Montessori schools. Obviously that one is well thought of by Libertarians. There is one in my town. What do Libertarians generally think of Montessori schools? Please enlighten me.
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Would you be talking about Pathfinder Acedemy by any chance?
Yes... I met Wayne (the guy who runs the place, AFIK) at PorcFest last year.
I started chatting with him because he was wearing a "Who is John Galt?" T-shirt and I'm a big Rand fan ;)
How do you know about Pathfinder?
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I live in New Hampshire, and there's a Montessori school near where I live (Concord) taught and owned by Capitalists, Objectivists, Libertarians and Free State Project members :D
Now that sounds like a school I would feel comfortable sending my kids to.
Then get yourself to NH ASAP, man!
What do Libertarians generally think of Montessori schools?
Well, Libertarians in general are for privatization of schools, and as far as I know, there aren't any (or damn few) Montessori-style Government-Run schools. I really like what I've seen about the Montessori concept, especially for grade school-age kids, but that's not really because of anything Libertarian. My statist, NEA-card-carrying aunt was a teacher for 20+ years and she raves about Montessori as well.
Then again, maybe there is something fundamentally Libertarian about Montessori; it does let on the children focus on the areas they find most interesting, and explicitly does not have the notion of a hyper-structured "1 hour of english; 1 hour of math; 1 hour of history...."
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Ahem... I got my degrees in Computer Science and Chemical Engineering at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.
Madison is one of the top-ranked schools in both.
Not trying to toot my own horn, just making the point that the "best" schools are not only in the places you listed.
And they party wayyyyyy hard in Mad-town.
Don't forget Northwestern U. here in Evanston. And the U. of Chicago. Those are two of the finest schools in the nation.
Yup, Illinois has some good schools too.
There are a lot of good schools, but I was pointing out that the ones on the very top are concentrated in those states, although there's a smattering of others elsewhere too.
You are right. Like in NH, where on of the top colleges in the world is found.
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Then get yourself to NH ASAP, man!
I hope to in the next few years. I'm working on the wife as we speak.
Well, Libertarians in general are for privatization of schools, and as far as I know, there aren't any (or damn few) Montessori-style Government-Run schools. I really like what I've seen about the Montessori concept, especially for grade school-age kids, but that's not really because of anything Libertarian. My statist, NEA-card-carrying aunt was a teacher for 20+ years and she raves about Montessori as well.
Then again, maybe there is something fundamentally Libertarian about Montessori; it does let on the children focus on the areas they find most interesting, and explicitly does not have the notion of a hyper-structured "1 hour of english; 1 hour of math; 1 hour of history...."
I probably could've been clearer. I know we're for privatization and I know what Montessori schools are about. I just hadn't heard the general Libertarian feeling about them. Anyway, thanks for the info.
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Then get yourself to NH ASAP, man!
I hope to in the next few years. I'm working on the wife as we speak.
Well, Libertarians in general are for privatization of schools, and as far as I know, there aren't any (or damn few) Montessori-style Government-Run schools. I really like what I've seen about the Montessori concept, especially for grade school-age kids, but that's not really because of anything Libertarian. My statist, NEA-card-carrying aunt was a teacher for 20+ years and she raves about Montessori as well.
Then again, maybe there is something fundamentally Libertarian about Montessori; it does let on the children focus on the areas they find most interesting, and explicitly does not have the notion of a hyper-structured "1 hour of english; 1 hour of math; 1 hour of history...."
I probably could've been clearer. I know we're for privatization and I know what Montessori schools are about. I just hadn't heard the general Libertarian feeling about them. Anyway, thanks for the info.
I know of one well known man (inside the FSP community) that sends his kids to one of the Montessori schools in NH.
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Would you be talking about Pathfinder Acedemy by any chance?
Yes... I met Wayne (the guy who runs the place, AFIK) at PorcFest last year.
I started chatting with him because he was wearing a "Who is John Galt?" T-shirt and I'm a big Rand fan ;)
How do you know about Pathfinder?
Wayne and Julie are my parents. If he knows you I might have met you at one of his meetings, either way I will be at porkfest this year.
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Then get yourself to NH ASAP, man!
I hope to in the next few years. I'm working on the wife as we speak.
Awesome!
Please, please, do me a favor and sign the First1000 (http://www.freestateproject.org/first1000) pledge as soon as you can!
I just hadn't heard the general Libertarian feeling about them. Anyway, thanks for the info.
One thing you'll find is that no Libertarian wants to speak for "The Libertarians", we know we don't have that kind of authority, nor do we want it ;)
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How do you know about Pathfinder?
Wayne and Julie are my parents. If he knows you I might have met you at one of his meetings, either way I will be at porkfest this year.
Too cool.
See ya at Porcfest!!!