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Author Topic: Boner Joe Owes Me Money  (Read 26267 times)

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Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #45 on: December 26, 2011, 11:27:19 AM »

Just a guess, but that might be a good way to find someone else with a spade...when you wake up.
I have the strong suspicion that with Osborne:
1) it wouldn't be a spade
2) you wouldn't wake up

That wouldn't be as cartoon-style humorous. ;-)
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hellbilly

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #46 on: December 26, 2011, 10:56:04 PM »

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Give me Liberty or give me Meth!

"We are profoundly dissatisfied with pretty much everything but we canít articulate why, and are unable to offer any viable alternative." - Nathaniel Weiner

dalebert

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #47 on: December 27, 2011, 01:13:50 PM »

Do you want me to evict Jay?

Still no answer.

Sluggers

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #48 on: December 27, 2011, 03:40:06 PM »

Lending to the Borrower from Hell: Debt and Default in the Age of Philip II by Drelichman and Voth.

http://www.pse.ens.fr/seminaire/mdrelichman_0805.pdf
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Coconut

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #49 on: December 28, 2011, 08:01:46 PM »

Do you want me to evict Jay?

Still no answer.

I have private messaged Dale. I didn't realize he was frustrated with my non-answer.
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dalebert

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #50 on: December 28, 2011, 08:09:44 PM »

I have private messaged Dale.

You have?

Well, yes, I was a little frustrated because you did mention Jay's landlord and you know that's me.

alaric89

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #51 on: December 29, 2011, 04:35:54 PM »

Since I have temporarily broken my silence, I'll mention that this thread does several negative things.
I have never seen such awesome proof for how bad Libpar can be, I hope no statist runs into this clusterfuck.
Here they have proof that free people would sign stupid contracts and collections would be difficult. I am waiting for some dipshit to recommend debtor's prisons to complete it all.
Nick, if you are going to be a loanshark, someone is going to renege eventually, especially with the interest you are taking.
Sakal CAI, or some arbitrator was the right answer.
Not a libertarian message board famous for its troll and asshole population, although I am surprised how civil everyone has been.

Coconut

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #52 on: December 29, 2011, 05:56:05 PM »

Nick, if you are going to be a loanshark, someone is going to renege eventually, especially with the interest you are taking.

If I were a real loanshark, I'd have the infrastructure and experience to deal with this situation. Obviously I'm not. I do not have outstanding contracted loans with other people.

I expected people to take the interest issue and turn me into the bad guy over it - but it's unfounded. First of all, this isn't a situation where someone has paid back all or most of a principal, and it's just the "juice" (That's what real loan sharks call it, right?) left over. The interest is of secondary concern to me at the moment. Let me requote here something I said on facebook:

" The original agreement, (which again, was of Jay's drafting. I'm not going to suggest someone pay me less than he wants to), has already been renegotiated.

I've never been opposed to having whatever conversation needs to happen to get paid. The question on whether I would be willing to rerenegotiate and write off some of the interest amount is a conversation worth having once $4990 is paid back. That is the main issue currently."


 Second, as I have said before, I did not charge, suggest, demand, etc, the interest rate. In the same vein, I was not doing a favor for a friend either. I am not going to counter someone's contract offer with another offer more in his favor - it doesn't make sense.

Sakal CAI, or some arbitrator was the right answer.

There is no dispute for an arbitrator to sort out. Nobody is claiming this money isn't owed.

I'd consider selling the debt to Sakal or anyone else, but some bit of research doesn't lend itself to being an easy, or possible, process.
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alaric89

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #53 on: December 29, 2011, 06:19:59 PM »

I, for one, don't blame you. Just trying to give a laymans POV of the thread. Surely someone would lend the debtor such a small sum at a reasonable interest to pay you the principle. You cut your losses, the debtor loses a bit of rep (probably not to great at this point anyway) and then someone who does have the infrastructure to deal with it, will.
I am not just talking out my ass. I have been in this situation. The times I cut my losses and just took it as a learning experience caused me the least problems in the long term.

Osborne

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #54 on: December 29, 2011, 09:51:32 PM »

When 500 people each owe you $100, you use a collection agency. When one person owes you $50k, you take care of it yourself.
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Tom Foppiano

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #55 on: December 29, 2011, 10:46:18 PM »

I don't see what the interest rate has to do with this situation. Yes, it was very high, but so what?

Kinda seems like a few posters have attempted to blame the victim. Maybe that wasn't their intent, but that is how I perceived it. Sounded like, "Well what did you expect would happen going out dressed like that?"

Also, I think the lender is doing the rest of us a service by pointing out that there is a person who failed to return property. That way, others may be less likely to lend anything to this person in the future.
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It might not be very big around, but it sure is short!

alaric89

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #56 on: December 30, 2011, 03:08:53 AM »

When 500 people each owe you $100, you use a collection agency. When one person owes you $50k, you take care of it yourself.
Why? and How? If you don't mind, I really have wondered about this sort of thing, and I thought you were closer to the answer then me.

I don't see what the interest rate has to do with this situation. Yes, it was very high, but so what?

Kinda seems like a few posters have attempted to blame the victim. Maybe that wasn't their intent, but that is how I perceived it. Sounded like, "Well what did you expect would happen going out dressed like that?"

Also, I think the lender is doing the rest of us a service by pointing out that there is a person who failed to return property. That way, others may be less likely to lend anything to this person in the future.
My point is that a statist reading this and seeing two libertarians agreeing to a 200% APR loan and no one pointing out how outrageous that is would have a pretty good argument for a government to protect us all.

Cognitive Dissident

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2011, 03:50:33 AM »

When 500 people each owe you $100, you use a collection agency. When one person owes you $50k, you take care of it yourself.
Why? and How? If you don't mind, I really have wondered about this sort of thing, and I thought you were closer to the answer then me.

I don't see what the interest rate has to do with this situation. Yes, it was very high, but so what?

Kinda seems like a few posters have attempted to blame the victim. Maybe that wasn't their intent, but that is how I perceived it. Sounded like, "Well what did you expect would happen going out dressed like that?"

Also, I think the lender is doing the rest of us a service by pointing out that there is a person who failed to return property. That way, others may be less likely to lend anything to this person in the future.
My point is that a statist reading this and seeing two libertarians agreeing to a 200% APR loan and no one pointing out how outrageous that is would have a pretty good argument for a government to protect us all.

The person who TOOK OUT the loan isn't complaining.  The person who TOOK OUT the loan set the terms.  Doesn't "look bad" as far as I'm concerned.
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Osborne

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2011, 04:13:28 AM »

When 500 people each owe you $100, you use a collection agency. When one person owes you $50k, you take care of it yourself.
Why? and How? If you don't mind, I really have wondered about this sort of thing, and I thought you were closer to the answer then me.
 

Collection agencies face mountains of legal barriers that you as the creditor do not have. We have only very specific things that we can say to only very specific people. The only advantage we have is the technology to locate and contact massive numbers of people at very low cost. Just as an example, if I were to post a message on Coconut's behalf such as he posted for himself, I would be doing time. The closest thing we can do would be to report to the credit bureaus, and anyone can do that for themself.

If you are willing to use legal violence, you can always get a judgment through the court system and then file to garnish wages or place property leins. Don't even need an attorney for that.
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alaric89

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Re: Boner Joe Owes Me Money
« Reply #59 on: December 30, 2011, 04:49:34 AM »

I guess I wanted to have the "How in a free society" answer. What I got was the real world one. (I am not complaining, I feel a little smarter having read your post, so thank you)
I don't think Coconut could use legal violence because the loan at that agreed interest from a non licenced lender is illegal isn't it?

WTFK, I will reserve the right to call out people who take deeply one sided deals. Whether the person on the raw side is someone who enjoys being a pain in my ass or my grandmother, who could never say no to any fucking conartist who knocked on her door. If people didn't, people who made a living getting people to sign bad contracts would be a very real danger in Libpar.


 
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