The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: Bill Brasky on November 22, 2009, 04:11:13 AM
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They interest me.
There hasn't been much action here lately, so lets start a new thread...
There are a lot of pros about boat ownership, from the freedom perspective. Mobility. Self sufficiency. No property taxes. Marina people are cool. Did I mention no property taxes?
You can go wherever the climate suits your personal tastes. You can go up-river for a quiet dock, or find a busy harbor if you like to be around people. You don't have to take care of a yard. You can go on vacation and take your house with you. If your neighbors piss you off, its as simple as untying a knot and turning a key.
The efficiency of boats is a considerable thing, they can pack everything you need to live into a space that can be totally self-contained. No worries about energy bills, when you have dock-space they provide all that stuff without you getting involved with utility companies. Away from shore, you generate all your own power and carry your own water and fuel. In a SHTF scenario, you can get away from the trouble, and with a fishing pole provide for your needs in an endlessly abundant source, whereas game can be hunted out in a cabin-type setting. Bullets can run out, and game can be hard to kill. But a few dollars worth of line and hooks and artificial jigs can last through hundreds of fish, caught right off your own deck. They even have seawater osmosis purifiers (http://www.aquapura-systems.com/), which dispels the myth that you can die of thirst in the middle of the sea.
I try to be level headed about these things, so here are some of the "cons" of living aboard a boat. You can't take a car with you. But you can take a moped or a bicycle, so getting around is not impossible on land, to replenish supplies. And at most marinas they have a general store, and sometimes offer a "back-door" rental vehicle service. A slip will cost you roughly the same as a lot rental for a trailer park, around $300 a month if you bargain shop. This price is cheaper if you take it for the year, and more expensive if you hop around taking spots at a month-per, then move away. It can be downright cheap if you visit a marina off-season, when they have little transient traffic. Like Maine in November, when its cold and the seas are rough.
It can be cramped. If you need a very large house, boat living is probably not for you. I've found that I don't mind confined living. Paying attention to my own habits has revealed that I require a central living space, a kitchen, a bathroom, and a bedroom. You have space on the aft for a grill and a chair, and the foredeck usually offers a place to stretch out and catch some fresh air. I could make due very nicely with a small apartment and a back patio. This roughly translates to a 40ft boat, which can have a second bedroom to accommodate a guest, or a kid. That extra room makes a great storage area if the guest or kid isn't a consideration. The second bedroom is usually the size of a walk-in closet, about 7x9 ft. You can store enough supplies in there to survive for a year if you do it right.
You cannot have a traditional dirt farm on a boat. But you can have plants. You can plant anything you would grow in buckets or window-box shaped containers. You could have a hydroponic system, or a phototron. I won't elaborate, use your imagination.
The systems and appliances are often energy-efficient. There is a gen-set aboard, and the whole thing is designed with deep-cycle batteries, so augmenting the system with a solar panel or a windmill is a piece of cake. Building this into a house is a pain in the balls. In a boat, its already there.
Fuel consumption while under-way is terrible. A large boat will burn a gallon of fuel to go about a mile or three. So you could expect to burn a hundred gallons of fuel to move it 200-300 miles, depending on size and hull design. Personally, I wouldn't care about burning $300 to relocate to new scenery every once in a while. The savings in property taxes makes this a wash. Diesel-burning engines can burn furnace oil, and whatever other oils can be obtained as long as you have a basic knowledge of diesel mechanics and an understanding of your engines requirements. YMMV
People say boating is prohibitively expensive. A friend of mine is paying about $4,000 a year in taxes to own his house. Granted, its a nice house. My parents homestead costs them roughly the same. Then they have all the assorted utilities, which can be roughly the same as dock fees. Often, more. But you never really own your house when you think about it in those terms. In a boat, you can haggle with the marina. You can find a dock that is perfect for your needs, and keep on truckin' if its not. You could even find a marina who's owner will accept barter. You could pay him in any manner he accepts. It could be labor, or money, or pot, or silver. Good luck finding that in the county courthouse.
As a lurking member of a boat forum, I've noticed the economic hardships of marinas are being reflected in a magnified manner of the overall economy. People are selling boats for cheap, and marinas are actually trying to stay attractively priced to keep their customers. This is a free-market reaction to be taken advantage of. Nobody will be bailing-out a marina, and when people have economic problems their toys are the first to go. This pattern will continue if people want to keep their credit ratings in good standing. Mortgaged boats will continue be sold for the balance due, or for cash market value if freely owned. And the cash market value is shit right now.
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The following pictures are taken from boats.com listings. Since they are classified ads, most will cease to exist in a few months, or a year. All of these are taken from boats that fit the following search requirements: Under $100,000 (most were actually under $50,000). Under 50ft in length (most were under 45ft in length). The central theme is affordability, and can be captained without much help, if any. It is more practical if you can pilot your own vessel without any help. It becomes much harder to maneuver a boat when it exceeds 45 ft in length, by an order of magnitude. For some reason boat people draw the line at 46 ft, and say the next four feet of waterline is the biggest four feet in the world. I have no experience to offer a contrary argument, so I will abide by that advice.
Heres a 41' Hatteras SportFish, one of my favorites. I like the squared off shape. This is a nice boat. Notice the size of the chairs and the little dinghy on the rear. This boat is actually quite large, and very wide. The average bedroom is 12 ft wide. This boat is 14 ft wide. Motor homes are normally less than 8 ft wide. You can't compare these things to a bus.
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/5364/41hatt.jpg)
(http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/6714/hatt2.jpg)
Heres a Silverton boat. Affordable. I dislike the topheavy-looking shit piled all over it, but that is only canvas, the actual boat is slick. Unfortunately, it appears there is no lower helm, which means you cannot pilot the ship from inside the cabin like a car, you must steer it from up top. And that would suck asshole in a storm.
(http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/4885/silv.jpg)
Heres a 58' Hatteras YachtFish built in the mid-1970's, my absolute all time favorite -- this picture does not do it justice. Pictures of boats are extremely hard to find.
(http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/attachments/general-yachting-discussion/11555-whats-your-favorite-yacht-yachtfish18.jpg)
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This is the coast guard.
All your boats are belong to us.
Over.
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I'm saving money to get myself a sailboat to make my escape.
and hopefully I'll be able to sail to an ancap seastead (http://seasteading.org) eventually.
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Yeah, a sailboat solves much of the fuel problem, though you'll still burn some.
You may not pay property tax (although you'll still do so indirectly via the slip rental, which has to be high enough to cover the cost of the tax on the marina). However, you're going to have to pay a boat tax--at least in my state, just as you do on a vehicle.
They even have seawater osmosis purifiers, which dispels the myth that you can die of thirst in the middle of the sea.
Roz Savage had two purifiers on her attempt to cross the Pacific. Both failed, and she ran very short of water during the first third of the trip.
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Roz Savage had two purifiers on her attempt to cross the Pacific. Both failed, and she ran very short of water during the first third of the trip.
Rainwater collecters are pretty easy to build in an emergency. and if you're at a low lattitude then you'll have enough sun to do some solar distillation, if there's no rain.
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Questions:
1. Income? Where would you work, if you're boating around all of the time?
2. Internet access?
3. Seems like being in a storm would suck, even if you're docked.
4. Unfortunately, living on a boat doesn't seem to be something you can just try to see if you like it. Unless, of course, you have a friend with a boat who is willing to loan it to you or share it with you for an extended period of time.
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Catamarans ftw (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catamaran)
Much more stable than a monohull, harder to capsize, harder to sink, much faster than an equivalent monohull, can carry more weight.
The only issue with boat living is the sheer cost if you want something larger than a floating shack.
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As much as a traditional wooden boat http://www.woodenboat.com/wbmag/index.html such as a a two masted schooner, monohulls have their limitations. And wood? Only if I have all the money I can spend.
I'll go with Fatcat on this one.
I've been drooling over at http://cruisingcatsusa.com/ for years, just dropping by to see what kind of technical developments have been come up with recently.
The Lagoon 620 looks good...
(http://www.cata-lagoon.com/images/bato/l620/n_45R1099_L620.jpg)
(http://www.cata-lagoon.com/images/bato/l620/i_45R1367_L620.jpg)
I've always wanted to visit antarctica. Much more fun than newyorktica.
But that navigation station would be far more than just navigation if I had one, I would be sure I could pilot from inside so that I wouldn't have to sit outside in the cold and rain just to steer.
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I've been drooling over at http://cruisingcatsusa.com/ for years, just dropping by to see what kind of technical developments have been come up with recently.
The Lagoon 620 looks good...
Yep, if I had $2.5 million lying around I would definitely consider that one!
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Maintenance costs are a bitch also.
Plus a number of things could go wrong. Like all government-run ports refusing entry.
You can't live on fish alone. Well, you can, but you have to eat the organs and try to find at least some seaweed, and still it's very unhealthy.
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Like all government-run ports refusing entry.
Being armed against pirates causes lots of problems like that. Such as being arrested in Mexico because of having a shotgun on one's boat, and having to go to a Mexican port in an emergency.
Yep. It's happened, just a few years ago.
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Yeah, a sailboat solves much of the fuel problem, though you'll still burn some.
You may not pay property tax (although you'll still do so indirectly via the slip rental, which has to be high enough to cover the cost of the tax on the marina). However, you're going to have to pay a boat tax--at least in my state, just as you do on a vehicle.
They even have seawater osmosis purifiers, which dispels the myth that you can die of thirst in the middle of the sea.
Roz Savage had two purifiers on her attempt to cross the Pacific. Both failed, and she ran very short of water during the first third of the trip.
I like the idea of a sailboat, but I've discarded sail power as impractical. The rigging can be a real bitch and the wind can be fickle. Its hard to take a sailboat upriver because of the narrow lane and tall masts under short bridges, not all bridges are drawbridge-types once you're a few miles inland those cease to exist.
In a storm you want to be in the lee of an island or upriver for protection. Sails have deep hulls and can't go in water below 5 or 6 ft deep, engine powered boats are usually about half of that.
The water purifiers, like all things technological, get better as time advances. They are not quite standard equipment nowadays, but close enough to common. In most cases you'll be using dock water, you just plug in and fill tanks. The osmosis purifier is for emergency use. Leaving shore, you'll take a few hundred gallons of clean water with you, so that can be conservatively rationed for a gallon per day. Sailboats don't have large storage for anything, but engine boats can store plenty. They're designed that way. I'm more concerned with fuel needs than water in a SHTF scenario. You can easily stay offshore for several months if you don't run your engines.
The tax thing varies from state to state. In many states its like registering a car, and you can change residency to a state that has lax requirements. I don't know a whole lot about that, but I would expect a state like Louisiana to be less restrictive simply because of all the sketchy types that try to eke out a living from the water trades.
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Questions:
1. Income? Where would you work, if you're boating around all of the time?
2. Internet access?
3. Seems like being in a storm would suck, even if you're docked.
4. Unfortunately, living on a boat doesn't seem to be something you can just try to see if you like it. Unless, of course, you have a friend with a boat who is willing to loan it to you or share it with you for an extended period of time.
1.Telecommute
2.Lithium. Crazy expensive though, but it will work in the middle of the ocean.
3. Yes.
4. Cabin fever is common after a month, then grows exponentially.
My sister does work on research vessels and describes boats as "holes in the ocean you pump money into".
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My sister does work on research vessels and describes boats as "holes in the ocean you pump money into".
What kind of work does she do, if you don't mind me asking?
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Questions:
1. Income? Where would you work, if you're boating around all of the time?
2. Internet access?
3. Seems like being in a storm would suck, even if you're docked.
4. Unfortunately, living on a boat doesn't seem to be something you can just try to see if you like it. Unless, of course, you have a friend with a boat who is willing to loan it to you or share it with you for an extended period of time.
Well, income... I'm working on that as you've probably noticed from the Dow thread. Other people, I donno. Whatever is locally available, I guess. If you have permanent residency at a dock, you can get employment in town. You CAN get a car in that case if you expect to live there semi-permanently, and sell it if you move - or take a bus back and then drive the car to wherever you've parked the boat. You could be a landlord and have an income stream. You could do odd jobs. You could charter daytrips for scuba diving. You could write programming or books, or sell things on Ebay. Theres lots of ways to make money. Once you actually have the boat, you could get by with about $1,000 per month. Dock, food, fuel, cellphone/internet.
Internet is getting easier. If you're able to get a cellphone signal, your problem is solved.
Storms do suck. Drive past a marina, you'll notice all those boats have survived. If its a really big storm, the marina can haul you out onto the hard, as they say. If its not so big, you ride it out. You can tie up in ways that prevent damage, or go upriver for a little while. Boat people always have an eye on the weather. If The Big One is coming, act accordingly. My idea would be to do the Gulf in the winter, and the summer go up the Mississippi or to the Chesapeake to avoid hurricane season.
One of the cool things is not being gridlocked when they evacuate, like what happened in Katrina. That can happen in other civil emergencies, not just storms. That little factoid nobody likes to think about is in my top-five list of most attractive reasons for boat living. Although I hope it would never come to fruition. (I don't actually have a top-five list)
No, you can't just "try it". I'm drawn to it. I know I'd like it. And I know other people would hate it.
I hardly ever look at the wicked-hot boats any more. They don't have to be real expensive. For around $50k you can get a pretty decent one, if you could be satisfied with an average little house in an average little neighborhood, then fix it up a little with fresh interior paint and new carpet. If you really really really shop it around, $100k can buy a really slick boat, nicer than most of our homes. The important stuff is the engines and systems being maintained (and starting with good quality to begin with). If that stuff is all tight, the rest doesn't matter much to me.
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People who mention the "middle of the ocean" don't have the slightest clue what this is all about. Being an hour from shore is the middle of the ocean in these terms. Your fuel tanks won't take you that far. You normally have a range of 300-400 NM in a straight line, so you shouldn't go out more than a third of that. The rule is 1/3 tank out, 1/3 tank back, and 1/3 for reserve in case something happens. Pleasure cruising takes you into the Florida Keys and places like that, where you can anchor.
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This is a 1961 Huckins Linwood Flybridge. Slightly over 50ft long, this is a little bigger than I'd be comfortable with. But she's a beauty. $89k, well taken care of, overhauled engines (Detroit Diesels), new electronics, and has three staterooms. Her name is Dry Martini. She's been for sale for over a year. I was hoping to find this listing again so I could post it here.
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3980/dry1d.jpg)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/5316/dry2.jpg)
(http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/2350/dry3.jpg)
(http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/1871/dry4.jpg)
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9426/dry5.jpg)
(http://img689.imageshack.us/img689/1807/dry6.jpg)
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This is a 1961 Huckins Linwood Flybridge. Slightly over 50ft long, this is a little bigger than I'd be comfortable with. But she's a beauty. $89k, well taken care of, overhauled engines (Detroit Diesels), new electronics, and has three staterooms. Her name is Dry Martini. She's been for sale for over a year. I was hoping to find this listing again so I could post it here.
Aqui. (http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Huckins-Linwood-Fb-B0013/10039881)
Looks nice (especially the full-size fridge), except.....well, two sets of bunk beds.
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This one is really interesting to me, its a 53ft Bluewater Coastal Cruiser. In the boating world, these are the gay pink Schwinn nobody wants, they are viewed with disdain among boat enthusiasts. They're a hybrid houseboat-yacht and are designed to be operated by people who don't know jack-shit about boating. Perfect for me.
They don't handle rough seas very well, with the low bow deadrise (deadrise is the distance from the point of the deck to the waterline) and a shallow draft. Hence the term "coastal cruiser" you aren't supposed to tackle the rough stuff with them. That doesn't make them unsafe, in fact the manufacturer says to the best of their knowledge, not one Bluewater has ever been sunk in a storm. They are considered bulletproof in nautical terms, which is maybe why the boat enthusiasts don't like them. Boat people like the possibility of idiots sinking their boats, I guess.
Anyway, the hull design is very fuel efficient in terms of drag coefficient, and with the shallow draft they plane at relatively low speeds. They're great for gunk-holing and can go just about anywhere. They're actually designed to be beached. Another interesting feature in this hull design is prop pockets, which prevents damage and allows for navigation in very shallow water. You only need 2 ft of water to move, and hitting a sand bar is not a big deal. I saw a review where the operator was purposely hauling ass through a low-tide area, skipping over sand bars that would kill a normal boat. Thats pretty cool from a survivalist perspective.
They use a lot of plastic and fiberglass to prevent a lot of the cosmetic maintenance issues that plague boats with exterior wood. Basically, they're a floating Winnebago. Regular gasoline engines are a minor drawback, I'd prefer diesel power. Diesel engines last much longer in these large boats, gasoline engines tend to burn up quicker, but they're also cheaper to replace or repair.
I think they're cool. You can find them for $50k if you look around, $75k on average. Brand new they are $300-$400k and up.
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/752/blue1vq.jpg)
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8009/blue2t.jpg)
(http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9831/blue3v.jpg)
(http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/6665/blue4.jpg)
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9559/blue5c.jpg)
(http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/6338/blue7g.jpg)
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God, now I'm horny for a boat.
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God, now I'm horny for a boat.
I think it'd be perfect for you. You don't mind solitude, you like to explore different places and travel, and have the right personality for coexisting among the kind of people who make their life in the pirate-y world of marinas. Those people don't like to be fucked with, and more often than not have a world-view that is in basic agreement with ours. (although many are ex-military, and have a big hard-on for the flag. You find a lot of squids in the docks)
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This is a 1961 Huckins Linwood Flybridge. Slightly over 50ft long, this is a little bigger than I'd be comfortable with. But she's a beauty. $89k, well taken care of, overhauled engines (Detroit Diesels), new electronics, and has three staterooms. Her name is Dry Martini. She's been for sale for over a year. I was hoping to find this listing again so I could post it here.
Aqui. (http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Huckins-Linwood-Fb-B0013/10039881)
Looks nice (especially the full-size fridge), except.....well, two sets of bunk beds.
Ya, thats where I found her.
They do the bunk bed thing often. Martini has a master stateroom, those are for guests. I'd probably tear one apart and make a larder/storage. The other thing you see is a twin-bed setup, side by side rather than a double bed. It reminds me of old-time sitcoms where they couldn't show two people in the same bed.
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Ya, thats where I found her.
They do the bunk bed thing often. Martini has a master stateroom, those are for guests. I'd probably tear one apart and make a larder/storage. The other thing you see is a twin-bed setup, side by side rather than a double bed. It reminds me of old-time sitcoms where they couldn't show two people in the same bed.
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/0/0/3/9/1003988_23.jpg?1149094480000) = bunk bed!
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If the guests don't like the bunk beds, then they can get their own fuckin' boat.
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Ya, thats where I found her.
They do the bunk bed thing often. Martini has a master stateroom, those are for guests. I'd probably tear one apart and make a larder/storage. The other thing you see is a twin-bed setup, side by side rather than a double bed. It reminds me of old-time sitcoms where they couldn't show two people in the same bed.
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/1/0/0/3/9/1003988_23.jpg?1149094480000) = bunk bed!
Dis is not de master stateroom, mademoiselle. Close the door on these unfortunate accommodations, and proceed down the hall to more dignified quarters. (Martini, she is the sensitive. We do not laugh at her shortcomings.)
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If the guests don't like the bunk beds, then they can get their own fuckin' boat.
Yargh, thats the spirit!
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Dis is not de master stateroom, mademoiselle. Close the door on these unfortunate accommodations, and proceed down the hall to more dignified quarters. (Martini, she is the sensitive. We do not laugh at her shortcomings.)
Bunk bed. BUNK BED! :lol:
I've looked at quite a few boats today out of pure curiosity, and all of the ones between 38-50 foot or so seem to have three bedrooms. Seems like a waste of space to me. One spare bedroom is fine, and why not make any extra a double or a queen bed? If it's a bunk bed, might as well rip that shit out and use the space for a library or something.
De master stateroom, well....might as well be all Star Trek, like dis:
(http://www.cata-lagoon.com/images/bato/l440/i_G8A8113.jpg)
(Lagoon catamaran 440)
Eet doesn't have to be like dis:
(http://images.boats.com/photos/270/247/126739_102_pic.jpg)
(Hatteras 72 motor yacht)
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I've looked at quite a few boats today out of pure curiosity, and all of the ones between 38-50 foot or so seem to have three bedrooms. Seems like a waste of space to me. One spare bedroom is fine, and why not make any extra a double or a queen bed? If it's a bunk bed, might as well rip that shit out and use the space for a library or something.
Usually, the way the original buyer specified it is the way it stays. Theres a few things to consider when you're spending big money, and more than not, its a guy with a wife and kids. Everybody needs a bed. The kids bring a friend, or the wife wants to take her sister, that sort of thing. You end up with a lot of beds if the salesman knows his craft and works on the floorplan with the buyer.
Personally I'd rip that shit out and make an office or larder, but I'm single. My kids would dig the thing, and they'd be fine with some kind of funky rig with the crisscrossed bunks. So the third room would be nixed in a hurry. Theres always the couch for a guest, my kind of people are not the fussy sort.
The other consideration I've run into is docking fees, they go by length. If you want to keep your living costs reasonable, you need to keep it under the 45ft range because after that, the dock fees get pricey. They move you to another part of the marina where the docks are longer, longer length means less boats fit into an area. You get whacked for that. And since bigger boats use more juice, the electrical hook-up fees are more. Usually they don't meter the juice, and just charge a flat fee. Everything is more expensive at the longer slips.
The alternative is a mooring ball, in a mooring field. Thats where you see a bunch of boats all tied up out in the middle of the water in rows. I wouldn't mind that, but you can't simply walk away, you gotta use a little dinghy to get ashore. You gotta provide your own electricity out there, usually with a windmill to augment your batteries, so the genny doesn't kick on all the time. Mooring balls cost about $300 a month, and a lot less per year. Docking is around $600 a month, or $4,500 a year. Theres a few other fees, and some stuff is included like water and pump-out, and sometimes not.
To keep it cheaper, you can go way way up-river into bumfuck, Egypt. Theres still a lot of boats up there, but its more local boys, not the ritzy mega-boats. The fancy-pants crowd doesn't want to spend three hours getting to open blue. I'd rather be up there anyways, more my kind of people, more protection from high winds that come off the seas.
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Complete set-up for power generation.
In boats you normally have a generator which provides off-shore power when you're tied out at anchor or a mooring ball. Gen-sets are ridiculously expensive to replace, and burn fuel. Its not as simple as buying one of those generators you see on construction sites. I thought it was at first, and quickly learned different.
RV and Marine gensets are a whole 'nother ballgame. A complete replacement of a genset can cost as much as $10,000, you could possibly shop it around and get a bargain for $5k. I was shocked. A marine genset is the equivalent of the furnace in your house. Theres a few name brands that continually surface. Onan, Westerbeke, Kohler. Northern Lights is supposed to be top shelf, and supposedly lasts twice as long - somehow. [citation needed-lol] The fuel they burn is necessarily the same fuel as your engines, they draw from the fuel tank. You don't want to fuckaround with propane genny and gas engine, it just makes things more difficult.
They kick on and off and power the battery bank, and you draw the power from the batteries. So when the batteries run low, the genny kicks on and charges the batts, then kicks off. All your electric stuff runs from this. Refrigerator is the biggest power drain, air conditioning is optional but nice to have. Plus, you've got your computer, nav systems, microwave, television, coffee maker, lights, water pump, all that jazz.
Quick elaboration on the batteries - you typically have maybe six batteries, deep cycle marine batteries are about the size of a cinderblock and are wired in a row. You can add to that row, they cost about $200 each. I need to look more deeper into the battery thing, but its a non-issue. They're basically the same as the batteries you'll use in solar house stuff. Big fuckers, heavy, and they're not cheap, but they're not hideously expensive either. You swap them out when they get lazy, and they last a good while in recharging cycles. Most boats would have good batteries if you made a wise purchase and the previous owner took good care of his shit.
If your generator dies, you are fucked. Bigtime. They have hour meters on them, and require maintenance. Once your genny reaches so-many-thousand hours, you're living on borrowed time. In an average day, it may run several hours depending on your electrical consumption. If you're tied to a mooring ball for a year, this is gonna add up to a lot of hours. Figuring 1gph fuel burn, 2 hours a day, thats 700 gallons in a year. At three bucks a gallon, you're talking $2,100. This is probably a very low low estimate. And thats just fuel, nevermind if the thing shits the bed.
You want to provide energy into the batteries to prevent the generator from kicking on as much as possible. You can't escape the necessity of a generator. But you can prolong its life. Theoretically you can introduce energy into the batteries and the generator will never kick on, until you run it for testing purposes to keep it fresh and prevent it from getting gummed up like all engines.
Heres how --
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1461/genxb.jpg)
In one year, you will be completely energy independent if living off-shore. Unless you want to drive the boat around. Solar/wind hybrid kits are preferable to exclusive dependence on either method. Solar in itself is only efficient when the sun shines, which excludes at least half the day, and some days you get none. Wind often dies down, and windmills have kick-in speeds. Reliance on one is problematic, and tying into your system is a project. The dual-kits make the most sense to me, and they're designed to achieve that balance by green-power geeks, so I would defer to their area of expertise.
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Solar in itself is only efficient when the sun shines, which excludes at least half the day, and some days you get none. Wind often dies down, and windmills have kick-in speeds. Reliance on one is problematic, and tying into your system is a project. The dual-kits make the most sense to me, and they're designed to achieve that balance by green-power geeks, so I would defer to their area of expertise.
Years ago I think it was 60 minutes that ran a story of this family that was living off bicycle power. They hooked a couple of those stationary exercises bikes to batteries and the whole family pedaled away to charge the batteries. They also used solar and wind I believe. It seems odd this concept never gets mentioned in the age of green. I wonder how much power a vigorous exercise routine would generate. It seems a waste to go through the pain of a spin routine and all that energy is wasted.
I love the idea of a boat for the SHTF scenarios and for just getting off the grid. With a cabin in the woods there will always be property taxes. For those that wish to get as far away from as many taxes they can this seems the best option. Granted, paying docking fees will contribute to taxes in part but it will be third hand. For principled people this might be enough of a distance.
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It takes A LOT of peddling to light up a couple bulbs.
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It takes A LOT of peddling to light up a couple bulbs.
Yeah, they had a thing at the science museum I went to as a kid. Feels like you're towing an elevator full of fat ladies behind you, and you're barely keeping it lit.
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I think I remember something like that, the bicycle people. It wouldn't be that hard to calculate the energy, websites where you buy windmills usually have charts showing KwH produced at different wind speeds. A person would probably create the force of a 7 mph wind for about an hour. That gets them fuckers spinning pretty good, but it has to be sustained. One chart showed four of those curly lightbulbs for the day (which a family would use between 4-6 hours, not a whole day) at its lowest collection point. Thats a lot of effort for not much return, which is why people tried capturing wind as soon as they could think straight, 5000 years ago. They used it for moving water uphill, to grind grain, and to move boats obviously. Much more efficient than people, even if they were slaves.
The problem with wind generators is they don't spin freely. They create resistance when generating. So you can have mild wind with your windmill standing still, even though it would flap a flag or pull a kite. Same thing happens with hydro if you don't have adequate head pressure. The water just drizzles over the wheel and the wheel doesn't move. So with people involved, they'd be working out against some considerable resistance. I guess it wouldn't matter, though. With human power being spent, it can be measured in Newtons, so a guy pumping weights would exert measurable force just like the lady doing cardio, and you'd just design the dynamo accordingly.
My manservant will not be pleased when he learns of this new development in the Brasky Project.
The taxes on marina space are removed enough for my liking, indirect. If they choose to report their income is none of my concern. You can possibly find private slippage in a waterway. Pictured below is all private, its peoples back yards. There are hundreds of these canals in Florida, and all coastal states.
(http://www.two-friends-travels.com/fort-lauderdale/fort-lauderdale-canals.jpg)
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There are hundreds of these canals in Florida, and all coastal states.
I noticed when using Google Earth (yes, on Linux, don't choke A.L.) that Portsmouth NH has a bunch of those little waterways behind it.
Just my kind of place. Now if only I could get out of NC! The job offers in NH won't even bother interviewing me, I guess they're all worried about paying relocation so they don't bother.
Argh.
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There are hundreds of these canals in Florida, and all coastal states.
I noticed when using Google Earth (yes, on Linux, don't choke A.L.) that Portsmouth NH has a bunch of those little waterways behind it.
Just my kind of place. Now if only I could get out of NC! The job offers in NH won't even bother interviewing me, I guess they're all worried about paying relocation so they don't bother.
Argh.
There is a vast network of these canals, especially in New England where they were used for commerce. You can actually navigate them all the way to the Great Lakes. Its called the Great Loop, you eventually cross the lakes, go down the Mississippi to the gulf, and back up the Atlantic to New England again.
The only problem with New England is it freezes. So you need covered dockage with a bubbler to prevent ice if you want to attempt liveaboard up yonder near the Arctic Circle. I hate the cold. Hatehatehate it.
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The only problem with New England is it freezes. So you need covered dockage with a bubbler to prevent ice if you want to attempt liveaboard up yonder near the Arctic Circle. I hate the cold. Hatehatehate it.
That's what's good about a boat. You just motor along until you get somewhere that's not freezing anymore.
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Theoretically, if a person has a large enough boat, and they're anchored more then 8 miles from shore, would they have an obligation to pay income taxes if they are not in effect American residents?
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You could only do that if you formally renounce your citizenship. They still go after expats for income tax.
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I would like to be up north in the summer, go south in the late fall, then return in early spring. I wouldn't want to live on the boat up north. I need a good sized chunk of land. I guess I will have to deal with property taxes.
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You could only do that if you formally renounce your citizenship. They still go after expats for income tax.
So, if I go live in Israel for a year, and work while I am there, the U.S. government expects me to pay taxes out of that money?
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You could only do that if you formally renounce your citizenship. They still go after expats for income tax.
So, if I go live in Israel for a year, and work while I am there, the U.S. government expects me to pay taxes out of that money?
http://www.escapeartist.com/Expat_Taxes/
Foreign Earned Income Exclusion
- Generally speaking, if you live and work outside of the United States, then you can exclude all or part of your foreign wages from US taxation. Here’s how it works: • You must work and reside outside the United States. • You must qualify under the Bona Fide or Physical Presence tests. • You can exclude up to $80,000 annually in foreign wages.
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Hopefully as a Jew you're making more than $80k. Otherwise you should kill yourself off as a disappointment to your heritage.
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pretty sure you have to be taxed by a foreign country on that 80k
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Jews collect one Jewgold coin per day, no matter what they do. It works out to roughly nineteen fuckzillion dollars per year. The coins have 1c stamped on them, so they pay taxes on $3.65
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pretty sure you have to be taxed by a foreign country on that 80k
Right, which is why I am surprised I would have to pay taxes as an ex-pat.
If I was a foreigner in America, I would still (presumably) pay income tax.
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As an American in a foreign country, you'll probably be taxed until you get exempted by filling out nine miles of paperwork. They're not gonna just waive anything willy-nilly. You owe until you take the action to be treated otherwise. I'm sure they would like nothing more than for a percentage of people to say fuckit, which is why they make things complicated and difficult on purpose. People get frustrated and give up, and just do whatever they're told. They don't know their rights, and don't know what questions to ask. Nobody volunteers the answers. How are you expected to have a competent understanding of this dense complicated system? By osmosis? Boyscouts knock on your door and hand you a two page pamphlet? No. Its hidden, to fuck you up and leech every fuckin nickel they can squeak out of your tight ass, and then some. And if you fuck it up, they'll think you're ripping them off, and violate your papers.
Lucky for you, at least you'd have a bunch of rabbi dudes who are familiar with it from past experience of visitors. You guys stick together, and its not a hidden jab. Someone like me, I'd be alone, swinging in the wind.
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Right, which is why I am surprised I would have to pay taxes as an ex-pat.
The US is the only country that expects you to pay taxes on foreign income earned while outside the US.
Yes, it sucks. Oh, and the country you live in taxes you too.
If I was a foreigner in America, I would still (presumably) pay income tax.
Indeed. I think the phrase is, "They get you coming and going."
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try this shit on for size.....
(oh, would that i could)
http://www.why-yachts.com/#/This%20is%20WHY
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Lame. Yachts are for butt-kissing yuppies who want to jerk off on the illusion of freedom while in reality they're only making their lifestyle ever more entangled with (and dependent on) government force! You can't own a yacht without paying tens of thousands of dollars in taxes and other fees, and if the coast guard asks you to pull up and you don't - no more yacht!
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Lame. Yachts are for butt-kissing yuppies who want to jerk off on the illusion of freedom while in reality they're only making their lifestyle ever more entangled with (and dependent on) government force! You can't own a yacht without paying tens of thousands of dollars in taxes and other fees, and if the coast guard asks you to pull up and you don't - no more yacht!
only if'n yer a fag....like you
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Lame. Yachts are for butt-kissing yuppies who want to jerk off on the illusion of freedom while in reality they're only making their lifestyle ever more entangled with (and dependent on) government force! You can't own a yacht without paying tens of thousands of dollars in taxes and other fees, and if the coast guard asks you to pull up and you don't - no more yacht!
If you think you're gonna turn this into another Libmanesque attention-whore thread, you're sadly mistaken.
But I shall address a few points.
Boats are a house that can leave the country at any time the owner wants. Can you comprehendo the advantage of that? Hmm?
Nobody says you have to spend absurd monies on a boat, which I think I've covered exhaustively. Your boat does not get regularly, if at all, reassessed. You can move it to a more economically friendly environment, where the taxes are different, negligible, or fucking ZERO. Is this sinking into your thick skull?
The USCG is a concern, like any law enforcement agency. In the name you may observe the word "coast". This is usually found in border states that have coastline. You can avoid these areas with ease by navigating upriver, which is not USCG domain, but that of local law enforcement, game commission, or perhaps none at all in rural areas. If the USCG does become involved, you can be in some serious trouble - like any involvement with law enforcement. However, being that they are a federal agency, they exercise extreme caution in their contacts. They do not simply board a vessel. Stepping foot on a vessel changes everything in maritime law, and becomes a big fucking pain in the balls for USCG. So they are hesitant to act in a hasty manner. Shit does happen, but shit happens in cars, too. And houses. Your best defense is to have your paperwork in order, don't act like a jackass when visible, and obey navigation rules. If you are tied up, they will most likely not pay you any attention.
The biggest advantage comes from being energy-independent. That alone takes you half-way off-grid. You don't have to pay "the man" whatever is the going rate for energy. And since boats are energy efficient in design due to generation reasons, producing the necessary energy and tying into the boat's system is relatively easy compared to a house.
The other advantage comes from the mobility. You can group with similarly-minded people and it has little to do with the economical concerns found in land-based housing. You can afford a house in a certain area, or an apartment. Other places, you can't. The price of your house or apartment will directly dictate the neighborhood, or visa-verca. The cheaper it gets, the more cops will be around. And that means more crime, and more unhappy neighbors you probably won't like. Try paying $50k and see what kind of house you get, and what kind of neighbors you'll have. Not my kind of place when personal liberty is the goal. You may find a rural cabin, which I've looked into and consider a suitable alternative. But then you aren't mobile and have to pay yearly taxes directly to the gov. to keep your house.
Boats are a big loophole in the system, a rare loophole, and worth exploring.
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Yeah, it does sound great initially.
Spend a year living on the high seas. Let me know how that turns out.
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Yeah, it does sound great initially.
Spend a year living on the high seas. Let me know how that turns out.
Why do people continually believe the "high seas" have anything to do with it?
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Yeah, it does sound great initially.
Spend a year living on the high seas. Let me know how that turns out.
Why do people continually believe the "high seas" have anything to do with it?
Outside of legal authority.
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Yeah, it does sound great initially.
Spend a year living on the high seas. Let me know how that turns out.
Why do people continually believe the "high seas" have anything to do with it?
Outside of legal authority.
That can't be done in a 40ft boat.
The international waters is an entirely different concept. People who relate these two concepts in their minds have no practical knowledge, at all. They are showing everyone how stupid they are. They should just say "I have no fucking clue, and my post is idiotic". It would save everyone a lot of writing.
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If you think you're gonna turn this into another Libmanesque attention-whore thread, you're sadly mistaken.
Bye bye, asshole
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Oopsie, I got confused and disoriented for a moment (or 3-4 years). I thought I was in an online forum where people are free to comment on other people's ideas and discuss them rationally. I didn't know it was ShawAndBraskyShowingOffTheirToys.com. My bad. Enjoy your disconnected overtaxed easily-sinkable agriculturally-dependent soon-to-be-U.N.-gun-controlled mobile home lifestyle. No more peanut gallery comments from me. Bon voyage!
The problem is, you're not rational. I left the comment where you made a legitimate point. This is the HFZ. People like you are why I make my threads in the HFZ, even before I had buttons.
If you want to make stoopid comments, you'll have to do it in your own threads. Or you could hijack a thread where the person will allow it.
I mean, really. What kind of brain malfunction do you have where you believe a thread about any specific topic can become whatever the fuck you want it to be, just because you type a bunch of idiotic comments and click "go" ? Are you that fuckin' stupid? If you think that is somehow encompassed in your "rights to free speech" then you obviously ARE that fuckin' stupid, when you know perfectly well that a person can utilize whatever tools he has at his disposal in webspace. And if there was a rule disallowing that, you'd be flippin' out. That feature mirrors property rights in webspace. Wrap your head around it, genius.
My purpose here is to cover the aspects of boating as they relate to personal freedom. As we go forward, people become more informed of the pro's and cons, and can make an informed decision. Obviously nobody is gonna run right out and buy a boat. But it could give them an alternative to consider, and I would like the input of people who have actual experience. This won't happen if it turns into a free-for-all. And if you have any actual serious beliefs in education about personal freedom, you'll refrain from hijacking all by yourself. It is irresponsible behavior on your part to provide obstacles in an exchange of information between curious people.
Lets review:
-No, you cannot grow corn in the middle of the ocean.
-No, you should not attempt to navigate to the middle of the ocean in a boat that has a range of 400-500 NM
-You can possibly avoid all property taxes if you're creative enough
-You can generate all your own power with minor adjustments of existing systems
-You can see a lot of scenery you'd never see if you own property on land (although you can own a boat AND property on land)
-You can move freely from place to place without the scrutiny of land-cops, and possibly never see another land-cop again.
One of the things I'm currently concentrating on is legal jurisdictions and agencies. I'll probably ask some people with experience in another forum, rather than forage around in teh webz for inaccurate info.
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This here is just a long list of "randoms" that I consider to be a bargain. Nothing insanely fancy, everything here would make a good liveaboard, is under $60k and usually less than 45 ft.
This took me a lot of time...
43ft Viking, two bedroom, nicely kept. Full size kitchen, screened-in "back porch". Built in 1978, fiberglass hull, has a range of about 400 NM. $55,000
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8764/bargain1.jpg)
(http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/497/bargain2.jpg)
Another Viking. Same design, pretty much. No screened in back porch. Also $55k
(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/3489/barg3.jpg)
41ft Chris Craft 410 Commander. These things are kinda ugly, but they're the Ford Pickup trucks of the water. Indestructible, reliable, and boat people have worked on 'em. $55k. The guy went a little gay with the flags there, gotta take that shit off.
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/6149/barg4.jpg)
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9355/barg5.jpg)
1973 Pacemaker 40' Flybridge. Nicely kept, $55k
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/3766/barg7.jpg)
(http://img37.imageshack.us/img37/4018/barg6.jpg)
40ft Silverton Aft Cabin. Theres lots of these around. This one's an 87 I think. Nice boat. Silverton is one of those companies that wants your business, so they put out a good product and don't go crazy with frills, undercut the market and run away with the show. $50k
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8448/barg8.jpg)
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/8837/barg9.jpg)
47ft Concord - nice boat, but the guy doesn't know how to operate a camera worth shit. Pix of the inside are teeny. This one's a bug fuckin diesel with lotsa power and a long range. $60k Probly pisses through fuel. Lots of interior room, and everything is normal-sized. Big genny, too
(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/8445/barg10.jpg)
This one here's a 1970 Gulf Commander Pilothouse. Fuckin beauty. I think I showed a picture of this earlier in the thread, but it deserves to be here, an excellent bargain at a modest $58,000. It's about 45 ft long, lotsa room inside. Everything's perfect, right down to the woodwork. Rear deck could use a new coat, but so what. One thing I love about this one is the sliding rear doors, very cool. I can tell this guy is an old salty badger, and knows his shit... one word: maps
(http://img682.imageshack.us/img682/6680/barg11.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1549/barg12.jpg)
(http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/598/barg13.jpg)
(http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/7371/barg14.jpg)
This one piques my curiosity, its an "unspecified" make, 45ft flybridge. Probly a one-off from a custom manufacturer, which isn't anything really remarkable. Lots of private companies make a few boats for enthusiasts. It was made in the mid-80's, pricetag is $55k. I think the guy is losing his ass in a divorce or bankruptcy, because the ad is just one paragraph and theres hardly any pix for this nice of a boat. He claims its fresh from a $55,000 refit of all important shit, has receipts to prove it. Sounds like a life going suddenly from good to bad.
(http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/2590/barg15.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9035/barg16.jpg)
(http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/393/barg17.jpg)
Speaking of "unspecified", heres one I never heard of. A 42ft Hershine. This thing looks pretty slick. Nice wood inside, looks like its well maintained. Only problem I see with this one is, the "living room" area looks bolted down. I'd like to be able to take the furniture out, this seems to be a fixed design. Like theres storage lockers under the couch, that sort of thing. $59,000
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1092/barg18.jpg)
(http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/8712/barg19.jpg)
(http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/3911/barg20.jpg)
(http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9854/barg21.jpg)
Another Chris Craft, 41ft built in 1981. This one's nice. $59k. Some go for twice that, or much more in this condition and year. I'm not too wacky about the brown, but it grew on me as I looked. Boats are always fucking white white white. These Commanders are battle-wagons. I wouldn't be afraid to take this one into some waves, Chris Craft builds tough reliable machines. This one's a diesel. I like it.
(http://[img]http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6189/barg22.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/1086/barg24.jpg)
Yet another Chris, this one's fuckin' huge. Its a 55ft long Commander, selling for $47k. Built in '73, its got tons of nav equipment and all the necessary shit. This boat is balls. Diesel, long range tanks. It'd cost a fortune to dock, a fortune to run, and be worth every fucking penny. You could go to war in this fucking thing, all it needs is cannon on the bow. Its got THREE full sized staterooms, a full sized kitchen. You name it. It probably has a big thick penis that drags on the ocean floor, except all boats are girls, so maybe not. The owner drove it up from Honduras. Honduras! I wouldn't have the balls to drive a car to Honduras.
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/8453/barg25.jpg)
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/336/barg26.jpg)
(http://img121.imageshack.us/img121/4273/barg27.jpg)
This one deserves honorable mention, just 'cause she's a good old girl. She's 80, have a little respect. She was a cop-boat back in the days of prohibition, built for speed to chase rum-runners. She's got beds and all that, a kitchen. Wooden hull, lovingly restored, and can outperform modern boats of similar designed hulls. Notice the pole, with all the wear on it. Thats from people holding it while she runs. People have been grabbing that pole for 80 years. She's still standing.
(http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/1831/barg28.jpg)
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/334/barg29.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6935/barg30.jpg)
Yet another Chris, this one is a Catalina model, which is a little bit different than the others I've shown. Its a 42ft built in '87, this is a pretty nice boat. All modern shit, its a bank repo going for $49k. Its a 2 bedroom setup, none of this bunkbed shit. It'd be a good turn-key investment for two people if they forked out a little cash. A 42ft would be on the cheaper end of fuel and dockage. Its got a washer-dryer. The important part is not the washer-dryer itself, but running the hookups. Any fool can buy an appliance. This bird has the hookups, and thats major win.
(http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/613/barg31.jpg)
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/7365/barg32.jpg)
(http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/7268/barg33.jpg)
If you made it this far, you get the bonus photo... Do I ever fail to bring the goods?
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5241/bongz.jpg)
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If you made it this far, you get the bonus photo... Do I ever fail to bring the goods?
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/5241/bongz.jpg)
3 words, brasko, me boy
bare-naked-tits
i not whinin or anything, i'm sayin', is all....
nice boats, by-the-by....
but, w/ tits, they'd really shine....
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I want a boat with a limey in the engine room I have to phone up to change speeds.
ME: FULL AHEAD
LIMEY: AYE EYE CAP'N
*click*
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I want a boat with a limey in the engine room I have to phone up to change speeds.
ME: FULL AHEAD
LIMEY: AYE EYE CAP'N
*click*
you need you an old PT boat
niggas were so big, (78-80')they had a guy in the engine room at all times, to shift the transmissions
3 big-ass, gas-guzzling packard V12's
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3 words, brasko, me boy
bare-naked-tits
i not whinin or anything, i'm sayin', is all....
nice boats, by-the-by....
but, w/ tits, they'd really shine....
Park it at some dockside bar on a Friday. You'll be Windex'n the tit-prints off the glass Saturday afternoon.
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While I'm sure any of those could work for living aboard, some of them do look a lot homier than others. I think if you can look at interior photos of a boat and not immediately conclude that it's a boat (or a bus or a trailer, etc.), that's probably a good thing. Even if you're well prepared to live in a relatively enclosed space, you want that space to be comfortable, right?
With that in mind, the 55ft long Commander is my favorite. But at the same time, you said you wanted something shorter than 45 ft. if at all possible for the sake of maneuverability. With that constraint the Vikings look good, though the Silverton might be a better deal.
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I. AM. EXTREMELY. TEMPTED.
http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/1464072999.html
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While I'm sure any of those could work for living aboard, some of them do look a lot homier than others. I think if you can look at interior photos of a boat and not immediately conclude that it's a boat (or a bus or a trailer, etc.), that's probably a good thing. Even if you're well prepared to live in a relatively enclosed space, you want that space to be comfortable, right?
With that in mind, the 55ft long Commander is my favorite. But at the same time, you said you wanted something shorter than 45 ft. if at all possible for the sake of maneuverability. With that constraint the Vikings look good, though the Silverton might be a better deal.
Hi.
I think its a good sign of a quality builder if they incorporate livability into the space. Some manufacturers are just better at design than others. And some boats have "weekender" purposes and aren't meant for living long-term. Kinda like a hunting cabin, it'll suffice a bunch of men who want to fish, drink beer, and dump their poop when they come back. Those are the ones shaped like Corvettes, instead of having a big fat ass on 'em. I like the shape of the hot-rods, but they would suck for living. You need big holding tanks for water and waste, not just fuel and ice chests.
So it kinda bums me out when the ones for living aren't sexy from the outside. Thats one of the reasons I like the Silvertons, too. They have a nice shape. Its a mental obstacle I have to personally overcome, because 99% of the time, your view will be from inside. You won't be standing on a dock watching your own boat run past, looking like tits-n-ass covered in whipped cream.
The size is ultimately important in a number of ways. Boats weigh a ton. Pushing that weight through the water is a huge energy burn. Drag is simply massive in water. They are so totally inefficient, its really just disgusting to consider in terms of fuel consumption. A twin-screw (2 props) diesel with normal sized engines can rip through absurd quantities of fuel, regardless of boat size. It can cost you a couple hundred bucks just to move it a hundred miles.
Heres a photo of a typical diesel engine room. Note the headroom is about 6ft high, so a person can work on the engine.
(http://www.44mlb.com/images/engine-detroit-diesel-b-2.jpg)
Thems some big fuckin engines. I don't have the specs, but thats what you'd probably find in most of the boats I pictured. Give or take, those are Detroit naturally aspirated 671's. Common engine, sometimes they're under the floorboards and you pull the sections of plank up to access. Thats why you see square sections in the carpeted floor of live- aboards. They don't always have an engine room.
Suffice it to say, larger boat compounds mightily in fuel consumption.
The thing is, you want to run your boat. You want to run it and enjoy it, this is the purpose of life, and life on water. Its kinda fucking pointless to own a boat and not run it. So you'd want to minimize the financial impact, and maximize your ability to steer it with any degree of skill. You would not want a monstrosity that is beyond your abilities of skill.
Boats don't have any brakes (although you can reverse the engines). Momentum is a bitch. You can crash into stuff and with 60,000 lbs of kinetic energy behind a mistake, you can do a lot of fucking damage. You can crush your bow, collapse a dock, or crush another boat. The longer and bigger, the less forgiving it is. Energy in motion is a mathematical fact, and mistakes with weight behind them just keep on crushing in slow-mo until you wanna puke.
The weight that would make sea-going more comfortable makes maneuverability more hazardous. In the water, the bigger the better when waves are a consideration. At sea, you want a big fucker. At dock, you want a small boat.
I would love to have that brown Constellation. And I'd probably bite off more than I can chew, and opt for it like a stupid man. And I'd probably kick myself for years after, because its just not practical. It'd cost me a couple hundred extra per month in dockage, and a couple hundred every time I wanna run it. And for what? An extra bedroom I never use. Boat length is a dick measuring contest, and the rules of land-lubbers with house size need to be checked at the door. They do not compute. Photographs screw with your eye, and make all boats look small inside. Boats are 15ft wide, which is bigger than the average bedroom. Its a quirky thing when people photograph the inside, they take photos down hallways and from doorway vantage-points. The windows are small, and the doors are narrow for reasons of structural integrity. Conservation of space in kitchens and bedrooms is an art form which translates badly in photography. They also employ low ceilings for structural reasons, which is unnatural to the eye in people who are accustomed to traditional architecture.
You'd need to go aboard and physically adjust to the surroundings. A 40+ may be more than adequate.
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I. AM. EXTREMELY. TEMPTED.
http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/1464072999.html
Dude, holy fuck. Buy it. Its probly got a few gremlins, but so what? If you end up hating the life, flip it.
I'd park that fucker up in the FL panhandle and laugh my balls off every fuckin' day.
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I found this one nearby too, which might be less of a maintenance asspain:
http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Chris-Craft-Commander/16300451
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I. AM. EXTREMELY. TEMPTED.
http://tampa.craigslist.org/pnl/boa/1464072999.html
that's way short money, negroe.....
buy, buy, buy.....
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I found this one nearby too, which might be less of a maintenance asspain:
http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Chris-Craft-Commander/16300451
You never know, they both might be the same with the important stuff. Engines, genny, bottom coat. The more expensive one has nicer stuff inside, but it might not be $20k of nicer stuff. I like the wood detail in the nicer one. The cheap one might have more-recently serviced engines, since its hauled out and sitting. The more expensive one sez 2000 hours on the engines. This does not mean 2000 hours since factory, it means 2000 hours since overhaul. Diesels get hauled every 3000 hours or so, maybe go up to 5000 if babied. Then they wanna do compression tests, take the heads off and might re-drill the cyl's or put in fresh pistons. I donno much about diesel mechanics (translation - nada) but I do know LOW hours is among the most important things to look for. At 10-12 knots cruise, 100 hours would take you 1000-1200 miles. So 2000 engine hours is actually a lot of boating. It could take you many years to register 2000 hours, if you keep it local and just go on jaunts.
Usually at a marina when people go to check out a potential buy, they can hire the services of a captain. You gotta ask the dockmaster who he recommends. It might be him himself. The captain will do a walk-through, spend an hour or three giving the important stuff a look. They'll notice things that look a little flooky, or some item that may be simply not there, which a noob can't notice. When/if someone eventually buys, they'll need some captaining lessons anyway if they're noobs. How to tie up properly, you'll do some touch-n-go's on a buoy where nothing can get hurt. Theres a real lot to know, you can't expect to just drive away. The walk-through would be probably a buck-fifty, the lessons maybe 200-250 for an afternoon.
Some things people just don't think about, and it bites 'em in the ass. One guy left his dock-water line hooked up turned to the "on" position, a pipe sprung a leak inside, and he almost sunk it by filling it like a pool. Another guy tied up too tight, tide went out, boat was hanging there. A captain can help prevent that stuff, by pointing out the important details, which you'll turn into a checklist that must be checked upon going out boating, or when buttoning-up and leaving for a few days to go home.
My latest tidbit was registration, costs about $275/yr for the sticker. So far, thats the only "law" I've found. Everything else is privatized. (Until you are under motor power, then the cops have motoring laws) Where you pump out your waste, etc. You have to be more than 25 miles out (I think) to dump waste legally, otherwise you must pay for pump-out. Some marinas do not allow liveaboards -at all. Some just allow a few. Typically, a liveaboard is classified as inhabited for more than five days in any consecutive 10-day period. So you could do weekends wherever it is and not be considered a liveaboard, and never leave the dock until you're comfortable driving it. Dockage would run about $500ish per month on either of those, probly including shore-power and water. Yearly comes to around 4500, you get a cookie for being a yearly contract.
My solution for expensive dockage (so far) is to investigate docks way up-river, where the day-tripper yahoos won't want to be that far from saltwater coast. If it takes 'em three hours to get to open sea, there goes half their day. It might be more protected from storms inland, fresh-water is better to sit in, and the little 100-slip "marina" might actually want your business. The big ones don't really care, open-checkbook millionaires all want prime location, so they can charge anything they want.
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another helpful tip on boat-buying, would be the ability to know who the previous owner was.....i don't mean the details of the guys sex life, but whether or not the guy was a seaoned boatsman....
ie: was thie boat you are looking at his 1st?
is he one of those douchebags that thinks checking the oil is something you only do once, when the engine is new?
a lot of moneyed people can't be bothered with the mundanities of maintainence...they'll buy something expensive, use it until it blows up,or discard it right before the ticking stops.....
i'd take much comfort in knowing the boat i'm about to buy was from an old cantankerous salt, that would gut you for leaving a ring on the mahogany table from your beer can....a popeye-lookin' motherfucker that could rattle off the exact part # for every fluid filter on the fucking boat, and tell you, without a twitch, the exact day & hour he replaced said filters....
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another helpful tip on boat-buying, would be the ability to know who the previous owner was.....i don't mean the details of the guys sex life, but whether or not the guy was a seaoned boatsman....
ie: was thie boat you are looking at his 1st?
is he one of those douchebags that thinks checking the oil is something you only do once, when the engine is new?
a lot of moneyed people can't be bothered with the mundanities of maintainence...they'll buy something expensive, use it until it blows up,or discard it right before the ticking stops.....
i'd take much comfort in knowing the boat i'm about to buy was from an old cantankerous salt, that would gut you for leaving a ring on the mahogany table from your beer can....a popeye-lookin' motherfucker that could rattle off the exact part # for every fluid filter on the fucking boat, and tell you, without a twitch, the exact day & hour he replaced said filters....
This is true. Chances are, you'll be buying the boat from the seller. So you'll get to meet him. In other cases, you'll be dealing with a yacht broker, which has its pros and cons. Pro- they have a professional look it over and hopefully disclose or repair any problems. Con- They jack the price up like car dealers, and put it at current market value. You won't find good deals when you're paying that fucker to drive around in a Ferrari.
I'd rather buy from a private seller who fits the description of "salty", but theres some very picky "open checkbook" owners who pay for all routine maintenance and then some. Mostly, this is because their lives can depend upon it being seaworthy, and if they can't turn wrenches, they pay someone else to do it.
You'd be surprised at the number of captain-handyman guys who make a living by giving a boat a once-per-month visit as routine, like a yardman. They check the oil and filters, turn the engines over and take it for a little spin (engines must be exercised under load, running at the dock doesn't cut the mustard). Check the bowlines for loose knots, make sure the fenders are positioned right. You can contract a guy to do this for about a hundred bucks a visit, or less. And when he finds something that needs replacing, he repairs it and charges for his extra time (if the owner says do it).
Others tie up and let it rot, and then clean it up nice before selling like it was ship-shape the whole time. Those are the ones you don't want. The engines gunk up, the fuel gets condensation in it. Windows leak and nobody finds the wet spot for months, which rots your plywood to shit. You can tell those because everyone is cleaning like gangbusters, theres bottles of cleaning products and paper towels in the photos. When a boat is properly cared for, that shit is stowed away.
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embedding's fucked up.
anyway...this song (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSn9tAxSPZ8) reminds me of this thread whenever I listen to it.
I really enjoy the bass guitar tracks--espeically in the buildup w/ "no more panic...etc"
ANNNY WAY.
It's been a long night...away from it all
The grabbing authority of my peers...
The rusty cage that never seems to open...
When can I escape? When can I swim to the moon?
I've heard this expression my entire life...never realized how peaceful a statement really is.
All alone on the worlds waters...here I am.
The sun's slowly drifting past the edge of the world...(can't blame our ancestors)
I'm the loneliest boat on this entire body of water.
Rest will give my awakening purpose...this is why I have come here in the first place.
A peace I have never felt... a life I did not want to live.
I will awake through sleep...
The drifting drifter...look into the picture...
(The Foreshadowing)
No more panic, no more regret.
No more hoping for a new mess.
Slide into the water
Become one with the sea.
Life seems so much smaller.
Swim to the moon.
extended lyrics (http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858802069/)
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Nice stuff. Thank you.
I'm not a big thrash guy, but they have their moments. The beginning sounds like King Crimson.
Random pix...
(http://blog.paradizo.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/rania-1.png)
(http://www.deanzaiii.com/images/deanzaiii_home_page.jpg)
(http://www.bareboatsbvi.com/images/BItter_End_Yacht_Club.jpg)
(http://www.travel-vancouver-island.com/data/media/7/boating-vacation_176.jpg)
(http://www.knotdunroamin.co.uk/Gunkholing-medium.jpg)
perfect gunkhole
(http://lh3.ggpht.com/_BTpcCf0IC44/SrszNm9pZzI/AAAAAAAAAKc/HzutrkL8tv0/s912/P7160007.JPG)
(http://zuserver2.star.ucl.ac.uk/~idh/apod/image/0412/waterspout_noaa.jpg)
(http://media.nowpublic.net/images/3d/b/3db7b8cca61222e8b2d00040b8496388.jpg)
(http://www.fabuloussavers.com/wallpapers/59_Florida_Keys_Largo_USA_freenature_landscapes_ocean_computerdesktopwallpaper_l.jpg)
(http://www.captainpete48.com/images/p7011087.jpg)
(http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/pix/boatparade03/Pier2-m.jpg)
Balboa pier, near Sarasota.
(http://dustincwillis.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/st-john-trunk-bay-usvi-national-park-hz.jpg)
(http://travelswithmycamera.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/halong_bay.jpg)
(http://tjefferson85.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/down-in-the-bayou.jpg)
(http://www.monsoon-maldives-liveaboard.com/gfx/liveaboard-maldives.jpg)
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(beautiful photos)
I just want to gather all of the people I like from around the world and form a community in Belize. Is that so wrong?
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(beautiful photos)
I just want to gather all of the people I like from around the world and form a community in Belize. Is that so wrong?
Not at all. I think theres a lot to be said for environment as it relates to happiness. It doesn't have to be on boat(s) or whatever. For me, its just that the mobility and nautical life represents that certain something I happen to be lacking. And the people are more along the lines of what are kindred spirits, people who "go for it" and set out into a world of uncertainty, chasing the elusive.
I think you'd like this thread. This womans life sounds remarkable. She shares a shitty ordeal about harbor regulations, but some amazing details emerge as you follow the thread and read between the lines.
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/frequently-asked-yacht-questions/4055-when-anchorage-not-anchorage.html
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My goal for 2011 is to own a big fucking boat. Not enough this year to do it, but next year...I WILL HAVE IT.
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My goal for 2011 is to own a big fucking boat. Not enough this year to do it, but next year...I WILL HAVE IT.
I'm holding out for a private zeppelin. You can fly over land, and 'zeppelin' is a much cooler word than 'boat'. Therefore, it must be superior.
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My goal for 2011 is to own a big fucking boat. Not enough this year to do it, but next year...I WILL HAVE IT.
WOO-HA!
I hope I get a ride some day.
Lately I been liking the Bayliner Bodega 40' -- early 80's models have nice interior arrangements, aesthetically pleasing* (in other words, not ugly like the big Chris Crafts), and there seem to be enough of them around, they aren't a floating mystery model. They can be found commonly between 40k to 60k, which is a fuckin good deal considering its rivals are double that.
(http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/8443/bodega.jpg)
http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Bayliner-Bodega/21360341
This one below is $37k, I have no idea why so cheap, it looks very well kept.
http://www.boats.com/boat-details/Bayliner-Bodega/18368161
(I know you very well know what aesthetically pleasing means, I'm just saying I think its very hard to find a pretty boat normal people can afford. These 70's and 80's models, sometimes the era is so fucking obvious, and other designs hold their eye-appeal better)
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My goal for 2011 is to own a big fucking boat. Not enough this year to do it, but next year...I WILL HAVE IT.
I'm holding out for a private zeppelin. You can fly over land, and 'zeppelin' is a much cooler word than 'boat'. Therefore, it must be superior.
"Boat" is a catch-all phrase. When you own it, and can live on it, it becomes a yacht. You go yachting, you park it in a yacht basin. You can say snazzy things like "ahoy", and that just beats the balls off any general exclamation. You automatically become a captain and a pilot, and earn respect for losing a limb or an eye, which is generally frowned upon in aviation. Plus, you could name your yacht "Zeppelin".
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"Boat" is a catch-all phrase. When you own it, and can live on it, it becomes a yacht. You go yachting, you park it in a yacht basin. You can say snazzy things like "ahoy", and that just beats the balls off any general exclamation. You automatically become a captain and a pilot, and earn respect for losing a limb or an eye, which is generally frowned upon in aviation. Plus, you could name your yacht "Zeppelin".
You don't understand. Say the following words aloud, and decide which one sounds best as a description of what your home is:
Boat
Yacht
Zeppelin
Also, because it hasn't been posted yet in this thread, and deserves to be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNU
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Well, if you're relying on pure auditory pleasure... I guess I can agree a zeppelin sounds cool.
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Nice stuff. Thank you.
I'm not a big thrash guy, but they have their moments. The beginning sounds like King Crimson.
funny you should mention that.
one of thier earilier albums is titled "The Anatomy of." The whole concept is them covering various pieces by artists who have influenced them. Not alot of thrashing in there; but one is a King Crimson cover--"Three of a Perfect Pair* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yf0K4GfySw)
*(which is even funnier because you just posted that same tune in the "How to embed YouTubes" thread...which still doesn't work for me :?
also...lovely images.
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[/quote]
Lately I been liking the Bayliner Bodega 40' -- early 80's models have nice interior arrangements, aesthetically pleasing* (in other words, not ugly like the big Chris Crafts), and there seem to be enough of them around, they aren't a floating mystery model. They can be found commonly between 40k to 60k, which is a fuckin good deal considering its rivals are double that.
[/quote]
I grew up on, in, and around boats. I've also worked on them and sold parts for them. I recommend you do a lot of research on Bayliner before you consider investing in one-there is a reason they are cheap....they are cheap. Admittedly, my experience with Bayliners is mostly with somewhat smaller fishing/pleasure boats(like 25-30'), but they are famous for being underpowered, and have poorly constructed hulls with bad lines. This results in a pig in the water. That might not seem like such a big deal-and on a sunny Saturday it isn't, but if you're gonna live on the thing eventually you are going to get caught out in bad weather-power is one of the things that keeps the dull side down in heavy chop, and keeps you off the fucking rocks!. (I got the feel from the thread that you don't have a lot of boating experience-trust me, first time you have to deal with a gale you will shit yourself, you'll notice when it's over....assuming you're not swimming :) )
I like your idea, though, I've thought about it often myself. I'd go the blow-boat route, but it's not a bad idea in any event and you really don't usually get fucked with much. In fact, the CG is probably the easiest LE to deal with there is, at least in terms of hyper-testosterone silliness-they spend most of their time on search and rescue and actively request assistance of us mere "citizens". Granted, this is in the Great Lakes, where "interdiction" isn't such a big deal, and rescue operations are virtually constant(the Great Lakes account for more shipwrecks and loss of life than http://www.northernmaritimeresearch.com/shipwrecks-causes.html (http://www.northernmaritimeresearch.com/shipwrecks-causes.html) any stretch of Ocean of comparable area, deadly ponds-bad weather, short waves, and big fucking rocks.) so I might be familiar with a whole other CG ...harbor patrol and frickin local cops ARE something of an issue at times. (though I did put a CG petty officer in jail once when I was a bouncer-just a drunk tank kinda thing, got him with a criminal trespass that the owner dropped on the condition of a $200 donation to the Humane Society, and never come back, the way we usually did it with assholes who tried to start fights and refused to leave.)
Have you thought about getting started in something smaller? Get an idea of what you like, don't like, etc? You should be able to get into a seaworthy small-craft for a few grand, play with it for a summer, and sell if for...a few grand.(In fact, I actually have a 1983 24" IMP Inca for sale in that range-twin 140 mercruisers, great ski boat-needs work though) Anyway, there are three basic things a powerboat can have: speed, comfort, and economy. You can have any two.
Chris-Craft is likely the best quality pleasure craft/ cabin cruiser made, IMHO.
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Thats why I'm spending the next few years reading before buying.
Random comments...
Fuck sailboats. I hate sailboats. I have no interest in being at the whims of wind for the small savings of fuel. They are smaller inside than I want. They make shitty liveaboards. They draw deeper draft. They require more effort underway. For the $3,000 a year I would save in fuel, I would pay double the current fuel price to not have to deal with all that bullshit.
I have no intention of buying a small boat so I can drive it around and say "whee", and still have no experience in operating a large boat, and the numerous concerns that accompany one. I've been in a whole bunch of bow riders and cuddy cabins. I don't think owning one would help much. They're like cars.
Any boat can hit rocks, turn over in rough weather, or break its back. *ALL* boats are pigs in the water, but some are less piggish. The safest thing you can do is operate safely. Avoid bad weather, hot-dogging, smashing tough waves... basically use your head.
What I'd really like is a brand new $850,000 Bertram 62 YachtFisher, I know I'd be safe in that... Unless its deck peels off like a tupperwear lid when plowing a wave on its maiden voyage, and going down in less than two minutes....
http://www.yachtforums.com/forums/general-yachting-discussion/12624-yachtforums-exclusive-underwater-pictures-sunken-bertram-630-a.html
You'd never think that could happen, but it did. So theres a $38,000 Bayliner floating around, thirty years old, and a million dollar Bert lying on the floor off the Carolina coast.
I don't really want a Chris, they're ugly. But I'll still take one if the price is right, because they're so fucking bulletproof. Since I've started this research project I have probably looked at 2,000 boats in detail, and several thousand hours of combing through forums and websites - and thats only a fraction of what I'll end up looking at. I'll probably end up buying a repo or an estate sale. Paying retail is idiotic.
I like the shape of that Bayliner Bodega because its sort of timeless, its shaped like a boat. The ChrisCrafts, they look like something that the Brady Bunch would own. I absolutely hate the big fat ass on 'em, with the enclosed flying bridge. It just looks awful. Same for the Hatt DCMYs with the big aft. These 70's models leave something to be desired in design, plus they're so fucking heavy you'll never get them anywhere close to plane at optimum burn- they're supposed to be semi-displacement planing hulls, but powering up to plane is not cost efficient, so they're essentially trawlers anyway. Moving up to an efficient design requires more bucks than I'm willing to consider - unless I find a deal in something sleek like an Azimut or a Fairline Phantom.
The owner of a 1966 fiberglass Chris-Craft 47 Commander anticipated replacing his 40-year-old engines, and at the same time was interested in the feasibility of increasing the power in order to decrease the cruising time on the run from San Francisco up the Delta to Stockton. Here is the analysis of the optimum power increase for his hull, with the various powering options shown in Figure 2.
Speed-length analysis: This planing hull has an Aspect Ratio of approximately 0.3 (this is the 14.5-foot wetted beam divided by the 44- foot waterline). The speed-to-length ratios give us the following values:
Maximum Obtainable Displacement Hull Speed = 9.05 knots
Planing Hull Speed = 16.6 knots
Based on these hydrodynamics, Chris-Craft originally offered the 47-foot Commander with two propulsion systems:
n Low-power option = twin 250 hp diesels at 18 knots
n High-power option = twin 350 hp diesels at 22 knots
The lighter and less expensive version came with twin Detroit 8V53 engines of 258 bhp, which delivered just sufficient shp to bring the hull up on plane and move along at approximately 18 knots. With the high-power option and twin 350s installed, the hull easily came up to speeds greater than 20 knots.
Repower design: The availability of newer, lightweight engines suggested that for approximately the same engine weight, we could repower with twin 480 hp Yanmars 6LY3-ETP, for a total of 960 bhp, which gave us a new maximum power option of 480 hp diesels and 23.5 knots.
We also discovered results for two similar 47-foot Commander repower designs. They included a 1969 hull with twin 355 bhp Cummins diesels, totaling 710 bhp, basically a duplication of the original high-power option, which provided a 4-knot increase in speed to 22 knots. The other was a 1967 hull with new twin 310 bhp Caterpillars, for a total of 610 bhp. Splitting the difference between the original high- and low-power options, we find a medium-power option of 310 hp diesels and 20.8 knots.
The fuel dock: Everything always comes back to cost. The more horsepower you buy, the more it costs and the more fuel it burns. The 56-mile trip to Stockton (from the Bay Area) at 20.8 knots with the medium-power option takes two hours and 40 minutes. The same trip at 23 knots takes two hours and 26 minutes, for a savings of only 14 minutes — just at an increased fuel cost of more than $100 each way.
It doesn’t take long with a calculator and today’s fuel prices to figure out that the medium-power option is the optimal repowering choice, which balances speed gain against cost.
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that's funny.
a buddy of mine has a '56 chris craft (18 footer, i believe), that he named ''absolutely''
lake winnipesaukee
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that's funny.
a buddy of mine has a '56 chris craft (18 footer, i believe), that he named ''absolutely''
lake winnipesaukee
Theres a real nice show boat on the lake near where I grew up, old wooden Chris. Stretch model, with a separate back jumpseat, kinda like the old rumble seat in hot rods. Looks like something John John Kennedy would be driving around the Cape, with a white scarf and the raybans. If he didn't have a big hole in his head.
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bah-haa
i'ma do this, if i git rich
(btw, bonerjoe is played by black guy in rowboat)
[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5uFllB_NhS0&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5uFllB_NhS0&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]
hey, i git it now, w/ the jewtube thing
yipee for me
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bah-haa
i'ma do this, if i git rich
(btw, bonerjoe is played by black guy in rowboat)
There was an incident where a guy made a damaging wake somewhere in the Chesapeake this summer, he was operating a biggie, 105ft Sunseeker.
The guy was the owner of Bomabardier. He was probably not even operating his own boat at the time, it was probably more like his daughters boyfriend or some shit, being a dumbfuck.
Anyway, in a no-wake area, his wake splashed and rolled a whole bunch of boats at dock, knocked the shit out of 'em. Smashed up a whole bunch of swim platforms, like where you waterski off. Broke cleats, rubbed a bunch of damage on bows against the docks. All from just the wake. (a 5-ft tsunami of a wake - totally irresponsible. you get caught between a boat and a dock when that happens, you're fucking dead meat)
Within minutes, hundreds of people were pissed. The Coast Guard was called with the name and description of the boat. They put out an APB, and calculated the radius of where he could be on the maps. The airwaves and forums of professionals lit up like a christmas tree.
They eventually found his identity and location, and he got served bigtime with damage lawsuits. Every fucker who was nearby joined the party, probably even some boats in parking lots. If it had damage, it happened during the incident, no matter when it actually happened. How you gonna argue that it was pre-existing? Dozens of boats at dock, all splashing and rolling like toys in a bathtub against solid wood. Each one worth hundreds of thousands of dollars, repairing any random doodad costs plenty. Repainting the whole thing? Shiit.
So he settled, open checkbook, submit yer bills. Rape me assole. Better than getting the courts involved, raising his insurance and all that. Not to mention, during the fracas, he had every yahoo with a blue light gunning for him. Probably wanted to come aboard and look for cocaine and dildos.
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More boat porn: 53' Hatteras motor yacht, 1975 (http://hatterasyachtsforsale.com/info.cfm?listingnmb=100388807)
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/2/0/2/7/4/2027430_1.jpg)
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/2/0/2/7/4/2027430_2.jpg)
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/2/0/2/7/4/2027430_3.jpg)
(http://newimages.yachtworld.com/2/0/2/7/4/2027430_11.jpg)
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Thats a beauty. Good price, too. The size is a little intimidating for a couple reasons - other than piloting it which is for the more experienced "driver". Usually with something that size you need a reliable deckhand. So a couple could get the job done but a single operator, probably not. Twin diesels recently hauled, which is a great savings of about $10k, but those engines would drink fuel like a sonofabitch. It would cost about $1200 to fill the fuel, and probably 24hrs running time to burn it in a 400 mile jaunt.
This aught to interest you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Loop
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It would cost about $1200 to fill the fuel, and probably 24hrs running time to burn it in a 400 mile jaunt.
Gah! Craziness.
This aught to interest you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Loop
Indeed. I want to do it.....preferably without spending over a thousand bucks every 400 miles.
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Thats a beauty. Good price, too. The size is a little intimidating for a couple reasons - other than piloting it which is for the more experienced "driver". Usually with something that size you need a reliable deckhand. So a couple could get the job done but a single operator, probably not. Twin diesels recently hauled, which is a great savings of about $10k, but those engines would drink fuel like a sonofabitch. It would cost about $1200 to fill the fuel, and probably 24hrs running time to burn it in a 400 mile jaunt.
This aught to interest you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Loop
What does a deckhand do?
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Ya, they're wildly inefficient. I'd have to do some surfing to fact-check the numbers, and it varies with engine size mated to length at the waterline. But something that big, its around there. At these kinds of numbers, going from 1 mpg to 2 mpg, you're doubling your fuel economy. So thats a pretty huge savings, even though both seem shitty.
Not the sexiest aspect of an otherwise dreamy subject.
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Thats a beauty. Good price, too. The size is a little intimidating for a couple reasons - other than piloting it which is for the more experienced "driver". Usually with something that size you need a reliable deckhand. So a couple could get the job done but a single operator, probably not. Twin diesels recently hauled, which is a great savings of about $10k, but those engines would drink fuel like a sonofabitch. It would cost about $1200 to fill the fuel, and probably 24hrs running time to burn it in a 400 mile jaunt.
This aught to interest you.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Loop
What does a deckhand do?
Mainly pull the lines and tie knots. General boat maintenance. Wash the deck, do little nuisance projects. Although you'd probably do most of that yourself if you lived aboard.
But when docking, thats the big thing one guy can't do alone - if its about the size Rillion posted pix. Running up and down from the engine controls to throwing lines on the bow, tying to the piers, dropping those bumpers that cushion the spot between the dock and the boat.
One extra set of hands makes a big difference. Even if its your wife or whatever, until you shut the engine down. The bigger the boat, the more ropes, and the less forgiving it is when it drifts from side to side in its slip. It can really grind hard against wherever its touching the dock.
Big boats, its not uncommon to have a professional crew. And thats not just because you're a rich lazy snob, they know what they're doing. And usually, you just get to hold the wheel when you can't ram into anything, and they do the more complicated steering.
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I don't think I'd ever want to live on a boat. If I'm tied to a dock most of the time, I may as well live in something with a decent bathroom. I like the idea of sailboats, and enjoy sailing (small stuff: Lasers, Sunfish, etc.), but they aren't incredibly practical. It's annoying enough to rig a small boat, thank you very much. Sailboats also have additional risks of tipping over, ropes catching you, booms hitting you, etc. I've also had the misfortune to be sailing a boat when the mast snapped in two (it was carbon fiber mast and I was hauling ass in huge wind and decent swells). There's not much scarier than that.
Of course, the upsides to sailing are also pretty big, IMO. You can save a lot of fuel if you don't spend all your travel time on narrow, windless, inland waterways with currents, etc. They are also pretty much silent under sail power, except for the sound of the boat slicing through water. It's also a great feeling to harness the wind for propulsion. They're less automated, similar to the difference between a manual and automatic transmission in a car. I love manuals. There are also a ton of sailboat races for all types of boats, if that's your thing.
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I have no interest in sailboats whatsoever.
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I have no interest in sailboats whatsoever.
I don't have to prove how manly I am either.
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I've next to no knowledge on boating beyond rowboats, and the only bodies of water I've ever lived near have been ponds, lakes and small rivers.
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I have no interest in sailboats whatsoever.
I don't have to prove how manly I am either.
All that rigging is a huge pain in the balls, and you're at the mercy of the wind. The ocean is dangerous enough with twin Detroits. Putting your life in the hands of a piece of canvas? No thanks.
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I've next to no knowledge on boating beyond rowboats, and the only bodies of water I've ever lived near have been ponds, lakes and small rivers.
I don't have any first-hand experience either. Mostly all I know is from about 2 years of online research.
Theres a real lot to know, I've just skimmed the surface. I don't pretend to think I could jump aboard and run a boat with any proficiency. I'd take lessons from a captain. You have to. They're huge and expensive, and theres just a ton of operational details. Going out a greenhorn, you're begging to sink the fucker, or smash it to pieces on a pier trying to dock it. Experience has to come from somewhere, and if you didn't grow up on one, or work on one, or been in the navy, you gotta take lessons.
The big ones are sorta like flying, except for some reason theres very little license requirements. Instead, you've just gotta obey the maritime laws, and if you do, they don't mess with you.
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cool story:
a bunch of us were drinking at the ''Naswa'', a lakeside beach bar at Winnipesaukee years ago.
theres a big dock there, next to the beach...and this dude comes in w/ a big cabin cruiser...
place is packed & everybody is eyes on this fucker, as the only open slip available is WAYY on the inside...a real tight fit..
this fucking guy was an artist w/ the throttles, as, in this situation, you don't even touch the wheel...it's useless anyway..
he took about 10 minutes to slick this barge into an impossible slot, without touching anything....like a hand sliding into a glove.....
when he shut the engines off, the entire beach erupted into applause....the dude was a fucking movie star.
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Sailboat. The nice thing about a sailboat is that you can run it without worrying about the cost of fuel. You can go all the way around the world using hardly any fuel at all, as 16-yo Abby Sunderland is currently doing.
http://abbysunderland.com/ (http://abbysunderland.com/)
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Sailboat. The nice thing about a sailboat is that you can run it without worrying about the cost of fuel. You can go all the way around the world using hardly any fuel at all, as 16-yo Abby Sunderland is currently doing.
http://abbysunderland.com/ (http://abbysunderland.com/)
great, if you wanna be worked like an african slave.....
plus, you need xtra hands on deck, like in a storm-type setting, for instance
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Sailboat. The nice thing about a sailboat is that you can run it without worrying about the cost of fuel. You can go all the way around the world using hardly any fuel at all, as 16-yo Abby Sunderland is currently doing.
http://abbysunderland.com/ (http://abbysunderland.com/)
great, if you wanna be worked like an african slave.....
plus, you need xtra hands on deck, like in a storm-type setting, for instance
That's why sailing is fun. One of my favorite things to do is take a Laser (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_%28dinghy%29) out in heavy winds and 6+ foot waves and do shit like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-e4RYbI07M
and this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CygXhiYpfKU
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I should have titled this thread "Live Aboards" so I didn't have to have this conversation every two pages.
Sailing is a hobby. Sailboats have tall masts that prohibit their passage in many cases. Their accommodations are day-sailor style, with extremely small storage for wastewater and freshwater. They are impractical for comfortable living conditions, and are rarely fitted for permanent living. The few examples that are fitted for permanent living still have the undesirable high mast and deep keel, putting it into the realm of much larger motor cruisers in regard to maneuverability.
So believing you can go anywhere you want with free wind power is incorrect. In most cases people would want to cruise the coast and adjoining tributaries, half of which becomes off limits to sail power. The interior of the United States is for all practical purposes, unnavigable.
It may be true that you can have a virtually unlimited range in ocean conditions, but its worth mentioning crossing into other countries territorial waters has its own problems - not to mention the dangers associated with trans-oceanic travel in a small boat. Having those immediate thoughts usually indicates the person has given about five minutes of consideration to the topic - because a person who has advanced to the true logistics usually abandons it to folly. The few noteworthy adventurers who have successfully traversed the major oceans are exactly that - few. Its a fairly exclusive club.
This is somewhat ironic in the similarities that brought about much scorn to the Christopher McCandless trek into the Alaskan wilderness. I have to admit, I don't fully understand the thought process of the person who automatically leaps to the maximum extreme end of a boats potential. I find it somewhat short-sighted and immature, and liken it to giving the keys to a car to a kid who says "Wow, I could drive all the way to the tip of South America!" I suppose you could, Junior. But you probably shouldn't.
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If you get a large enough sailboat, you can easily live on it. I spent a week on a sailboat, spending about half the nights anchored and not in a marina, and didn't have any issues. I believe the owner/captain lived on that boat. Something along these lines would be fine. It's certainly outfitted for long hauls: http://www.sailboattraderonline.com/listing/1980-Morgan-Out-Island-94604783
(http://images.traderonline.com//img/6/dealer/3825550/94604783_2thumb_550x410.jpg)
Of course, if you have more money you can go bigger and nicer. If you've got $2 million to drop, you could get this: http://www.sailboattraderonline.com/listing/2008-AEGEAN-Yacht-Builders-Motor-Sailor-95311220
(http://images.traderonline.com//img/6/dealer/4600894//95311220_1thumb_550x410.jpg)
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.....and again, you need half-a-dozen ''deckhands'' to operate a tub that size.
motor yacht, you need 2-hands, 2 eyes
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.....and again, you need half-a-dozen ''deckhands'' to operate a tub that size.
motor yacht, you need 2-hands, 2 eyes
You can get equipment that automates the furling and control of the sails and eliminates the need for a crew.
Links:
http://www.practical-sailor.com/marine/boom-furling-systems.html
http://www.harken.com/winches/electricwinches.php
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I am hardly surprised that you spent a week on a sailboat with the owner/captain, and aren't entirely sure if he lived aboard the vessel.
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I am hardly surprised that you spent a week on a sailboat with the owner/captain, and aren't entirely sure if he lived aboard the vessel.
Why do you constantly trash everything I post on this board? It was a long time ago and I can't remember if the guy had another home or not. He definitely lived on the boat for the whole "season". I just can't remember if he also lived on it during the off season. It was the type of boat that could travel to wherever he wanted to go.
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I am hardly surprised that you spent a week on a sailboat with the owner/captain, and aren't entirely sure if he lived aboard the vessel.
Why do you constantly trash everything I post on this board? It was a long time ago and I can't remember if the guy had another home or not. He definitely lived on the boat for the whole "season". I just can't remember if he also lived on it during the off season. It was the type of boat that could travel to wherever he wanted to go.
Why do you insist on making this into a sailboat thread? Its apples and oranges, two completely different styles, designs and even philosophies. I'd rather not derail this topic into wind-power which is a very large subject. I don't know how many times I've asked you to step off with the sailboat shit. But you can't take a hint.
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How about a ridiculous boat (http://www.snopes.com/photos/boats/whyyacht.asp):
Snopes apparently frowns upon hot-linky.
Anyway, they're doing some innovative stuff with hull design. I didn't get too deep into the details but I suspect that hull is a fairly shallow draft and it planes at low speed. Kinda like skipping a stone. The resistance of forcing a boat through water is the biggest reason they get such shitty fuel economy. (which on my part is kind of a "duh" comment).
Bigger surface area, less displacement - think snowshoe. When a boat is running at maximum efficiency, it planes. You can see it in normal conditions with smaller boats, just the props will be in the water. Thats probably what they're trying to achieve, except at slower more dignified yachting speeds.
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I was under the impression that this was a thread about living on boats. I'm not trying to turn it into a sailboat thread, just saying that I would prefer to live on a sailboat than a powerboat. I was pretty much done after my first post, but Luca Brazzi commented on how operating a sailboat is a lot of work. I commented that it's also a lot of fun.
You then decided to comment on how sailboats are not meant to be lived on. I disagree. Certainly, they aren't as popular, but manual transmissions in cars are less popular than automatics (in America, at least). That doesn't mean they aren't good for getting groceries. Anyway, I replied with two specific sailboats that I think would be livable, and then commented on sailboat technology which makes boats like that more practical for one or two people to operate (if they desire) in response to Luca Brazzi's comment about needing deckhands.
The point being, I think a sailboat is a perfectly livable boat given the right characteristics, and I would prefer a sailboat to a powerboat for such an endeavor. I did not meant to turn your thread into something it was not, just to offer my thoughts and input. I thought that would be valuable since I have some experience with boats and boating in general: motor-powered and sail-powered. I don't discriminate between the two. They're both good.
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I was under the impression that this was a thread about living on boats. I'm not trying to turn it into a sailboat thread, just saying that I would prefer to live on a sailboat than a powerboat. I was pretty much done after my first post, but Luca Brazzi commented on how operating a sailboat is a lot of work. I commented that it's also a lot of fun.
You then decided to comment on how sailboats are not meant to be lived on. I disagree. Certainly, they aren't as popular, but manual transmissions in cars are less popular than automatics (in America, at least). That doesn't mean they aren't good for getting groceries. Anyway, I replied with two specific sailboats that I think would be livable, and then commented on sailboat technology which makes boats like that more practical for one or two people to operate (if they desire) in response to Luca Brazzi's comment about needing deckhands.
The point being, I think a sailboat is a perfectly livable boat given the right characteristics, and I would prefer a sailboat to a powerboat for such an endeavor. I did not meant to turn your thread into something it was not, just to offer my thoughts and input. I thought that would be valuable since I have some experience with boats and boating in general: motor-powered and sail-powered. I don't discriminate between the two. They're both good.
Thanks for the recap, as I am incapable of piecing together the details of the last seven posts.
You wouldn't live on a boat.
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You could take everything I know about boats, ram it up a gnat's ass and it'd look like a BB in a boxcar.
They float, I know that.
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You could take everything I know about boats, ram it up a gnat's ass and it'd look like a BB in a boxcar.
They float, I know that.
Are you sure you live in Michigan? :P
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One of these guys lived on a boat, you should talk to him
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The Seaward.
What a great name.
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The Seaward.
What a great name
taken
(pretty sure)
how bout
''SEASLICK''
hmmm?
hmmm?
how bout a fresca, danny?
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The Seaward.
What a great name
taken
(pretty sure)
how bout
''SEASLICK''
hmmm?
hmmm?
how bout a fresca, danny?
Doesn't matter if its taken.
Whats the f-word?
Whats the seaward?
We haff a bingo.
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what you say, willis?
what about what f-word, negroe?
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what you say, willis?
what about what f-word, negroe?
Play along, answer questions.
What is the f-word>
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My goal for 2011 is to own a big fucking boat. Not enough this year to do it, but next year...I WILL HAVE IT.
I'm holding out for a private zeppelin. You can fly over land, and 'zeppelin' is a much cooler word than 'boat'. Therefore, it must be superior.
"Boat" is a catch-all phrase. When you own it, and can live on it, it becomes a yacht. You go yachting, you park it in a yacht basin. You can say snazzy things like "ahoy", and that just beats the balls off any general exclamation. You automatically become a captain and a pilot, and earn respect for losing a limb or an eye, which is generally frowned upon in aviation. Plus, you could name your yacht "Zeppelin".
Bump.
Ahoy.
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Aye aye capitan'.