The Free Talk Live BBS
Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: Dragline on December 18, 2011, 09:19:55 AM
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some people have their titties in a twist
I bein' ''watched'', as bloviated in another post
lighten up, francis
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You were missed though. Joanna was so distraught she hasn't chimed in for a long time now. :(
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thanks guy.
some of the ''inner-circle'' are quite pissy over this event
i think boner is cool tho.
he & i had a nice exchange last weekend at the chatroom.
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Yeah I agree BJ has been civil lately. I get the impression things are going well for him and it reflects out. I like it when folks are happy.
I am still pissed about his porn post, that I can't get rid of, on my violence thread though.
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Yeah I agree BJ has been civil lately. I get the impression things are going well for him and it reflects out. I like it when folks are happy.
I am still pissed about his porn post, that I can't get rid of, on my violence thread though.
Civil? I just trolled a troll here by constantly deleting accounts. Don't think I won't post porn in someones thread if I don't feel it's warranted.
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Don't think I won't post porn in someones thread if I don't feel it's warranted.
Well, im waiting.
*taps fingers on desk*
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This thread deserves the most horrible porn picture on the internet:
http://i.imgur.com/Nt6TF.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/Nt6TF.jpg)
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so much for niceties
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Your humor was missed - you got a rep to uphold now...
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i'ma keep a somewhat civil tongue, up-in-here
i know L.L. Bone-Jay would appreciate it.
that was my new rap name for boner, by the way... i came up w/ while i was ''away''
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In what world would you cause a bunch of shit, get thrown the fuck out (and not for the first time)- like the other dozen semi-related forums you can't show your face in- and not be "watched?"
Answer, none. Grow up, Mary.
Its pretty simple.. behave. There are thousands upon thousands of topics you can comment on. If you need to rake shit in the .001%, you're not gonna last long, and whoever allowed you back in made a mistake.
Learn to co-exist, or leave of your own accord.
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we ALL fucking know why i got thrown out
it was bullshit then & NUMEROUS people here let you know it. (i was ''watching'' too)
racism, my cock......
one of the inner circle got picked on & couldn't deal w/ it
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I didn't lose any sleep when the neighborhood was cleansed.
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go blow yourself kenny
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we ALL fucking know why i got thrown out
it was bullshit then & NUMEROUS people here let you know it. (i was ''watching'' too)
racism, my cock......
one of the inner circle got picked on & couldn't deal w/ it
Five...
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go blow yourself kenny
You can do that for me.
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:roll:
Time for Fred to pop in with a string of music video clips, so I can start ignoring this thread, too.
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That is just it, Dragline has the balls to control his own thread. Fred knows that. They respect each other. If Fred started youtubing the thread to death Dragline would almost enjoy deleting the things. Dio has his Christmas thread, he wants to shitcan the Christmas songs (appropriate in my opinion but it isn't my property) he can. I have been a total dick on liberty kids and it is promised on the first post that I will be like that. The passive aggression from Brasky was unnecessary, and I double checked it was Brasky who started it. The thread starter can control his own threads you don't like what someone did- make it go away.
BJ protected Myself and Jason Osborne from a troll. This is hysterical to me. I need no protection, and Jason sure as hell don't. Please stop "helping" us officers.
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Oh God I want to ban you so hard alaric89.
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I'm gonna ban everyone.
Leon the Professional - EVERYONE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBKXu3Kg4yg#)
If someone is breaking the TOS, ban them. If its personal, get a room and hash it out and see who's got the best cock waving abilities.
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If someone is breaking the TOS, ban them. If its personal, get a room and hash it out and see who's got the best cock waving abilities.
+1 - spoken like a true leader of men!
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Oh God I want to ban you so hard alaric89.
For what, officer?
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Oh God I want to ban you so hard alaric89.
For what, officer?
For being a goddamned bitch, that's what.
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Really? This is the sort of shit I am sick of. I took a screen shot and emailing it to Ian. This passive aggression from you mods has to stop.
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(http://cache.blippitt.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Popcorn-02-Stephen-Colbert.gif)
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WHY DONT YOU TELL MOMMA ALLY TOO WHILE YOURE FUCKIN AT IT
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This passive aggression from you mods has to stop.
If you "You mods" at this board one more time we're gonna have problems.
We are not the fucking Borg, jackass. We do not conspire and consult one another.
Stop. Fucking. Collectivizing. People.
There. One of the big mean inner cabal conspiring mods has spoken.
And no, I am not threatening to fucking ban you.
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This passive aggression from you mods has to stop.
I put the passive in passive aggressive mod behavior :P
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Laetitia, John is right.
It never occurred to me that I was collectivising. I am sorry for any undeserving parties I may have insulted.
I just don't dig all the little warnings from John Shaw, Bonerjoe, and Bill Brasky. Communicating this is evidently wrong on this board, Even though I thought I was pretty strict on myself with the board rules.
I find the situation unbearable. BonerJoe and John Shaw both openly threatened me on this very thread.
I submit to their toughness and am most humbly impressed.
I have a few loose ends to tie up. After that I'll cancel my support for FTL and leave.
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After that I'll cancel my support for FTL and leave.
Now there's collectivism for you. Punish Ian and Mark for the actions of other FTL types.
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And no, I am not threatening to fucking ban you.
I find the situation unbearable. BonerJoe and John Shaw both openly threatened me on this very thread.
You're a lying asshole or can't read. Pick one.
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Laetitia, John is right.
It never occurred to me that I was collectivising. I am sorry for any undeserving parties I may have insulted.
I just don't dig all the little warnings from John Shaw, Bonerjoe, and Bill Brasky. Communicating this is evidently wrong on this board, Even though I thought I was pretty strict on myself with the board rules.
I find the situation unbearable. BonerJoe and John Shaw both openly threatened me on this very thread.
I submit to their toughness and am most humbly impressed.
I have a few loose ends to tie up. After that I'll cancel my support for FTL and leave.
There is no "we". I think I've made that abundantly clear over the last six years. I know a lot of people here LOVE to use the royal "WE". I despise it. It smacks of collectivist mindset, and to me is a pretty heinous assumption that others can speak for my opinions.
But I guess that's what happens in a community where many people believe the group is like an organism devoid of individuality, and embraces a quasi-socialist structure. (despite the lip-service given to individual rights, sexual freedom, and economic freedom).
You have to remember, on the flip-side of the "WE" coin, there is always a "THEY". And people who freely use "they" are people I like to avoid.
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You're a lying asshole or can't read. Pick one.
I think its equal portions of both, peppered with histrionics.
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Laetitia, John is right.
It never occurred to me that I was collectivising. I am sorry for any undeserving parties I may have insulted.
I just don't dig all the little warnings from John Shaw, Bonerjoe, and Bill Brasky. Communicating this is evidently wrong on this board, Even though I thought I was pretty strict on myself with the board rules.
I find the situation unbearable. BonerJoe and John Shaw both openly threatened me on this very thread.
I submit to their toughness and am most humbly impressed.
I have a few loose ends to tie up. After that I'll cancel my support for FTL and leave.
I'm not gettin this - you wanted Dragline back so he could get on with his poking at folks.
Boner lets him back in and after he gets a little riled up from Dragline poking him, he sort of regrets it.
Then Boner says he'd love to ban you, but restrains himself and Shaqw and Brasky poke back at Dragline for poking at them..
Now Shaw pokes you back but says he's not banning you...
So now, you're gonna pick up your marbles and go home?
Dude, you've been in Norway too long. Visit the states and get bacdk your bearings.
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Shit that's the second person to quit after Dragline is let back in to stir shit up with the mods. Apparently a dragline is what goes between the anchor and the BBS that gets dragged under. Hopefully someone cuts that shit loose again. SOON.
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Shit that's the second person to quit after Dragline is let back in to stir shit up with the mods. Apparently a dragline is what goes between the anchor and the BBS that gets dragged under. Hopefully someone cuts that shit loose again. SOON.
He'll get banned within a week. Don't worry too much about it. he only has to bash people a few more times before he's qualified as "harassing" people. Chronic abusive statements. Gone. Hence the beginning of a countdown I posted.
I'd do it right now but I already know what the "Let's all hate on Shaw." meatgrinder feels like. The last time the back of my eyeball literally fell off from my anger and hurt.
I can't allow myself to care enough to get upset, so I refuse to ban him. (This time)
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He's capable of being nice when he feels like it. The problem is, he doesn't feel like it. He has an ax to grind.
I'm sure "holiday cheer" will fuel his animosity, and he'll wake up one day to a "fuck you" screen.
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I banned him last night.
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Alaric is still mad I got him to voluntarily delete his account awhile back.
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Alaric is still mad I got him to voluntarily delete his account awhile back.
Do it again, you golden-tongued wizard.
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Laetitia, John is right.
It never occurred to me that I was collectivising. I am sorry for any undeserving parties I may have insulted.
I just don't dig all the little warnings from John Shaw, Bonerjoe, and Bill Brasky. Communicating this is evidently wrong on this board, Even though I thought I was pretty strict on myself with the board rules.
I find the situation unbearable. BonerJoe and John Shaw both openly threatened me on this very thread.
I submit to their toughness and am most humbly impressed.
I have a few loose ends to tie up. After that I'll cancel my support for FTL and leave.
alaric -
John didn't threaten to ban you. What he said was much more along the lines of 'I think you're being a dick, but you're not breaking the rules...' The only thing threatening about that is the implied 'don't break the rules'
Sorry to hear that you feel the need to leave. You have been part of many good discussions, and it's sad this spat with one or two of the mods has turned into something which can't be dropped by either side. I do hope you continue to listen to and support FTL though, as it really is a show that gives air time to the entire spectrum of opinions on just about everything. (I will admit to thinking that's a better thing in some cases than in others, but that's between me and the mute button on my computer.)
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Laetia I appreciate your comment.
You don't think I would get away with saying "Do .... or else there will be problems." to anybody do you?
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Al, sleep on it man..
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I banned him last night.
His account appears active.
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And no, I am not threatening to fucking ban you.
Keep pretending that I didn't say that, asshole.
"Problems" means you're gonna piss me off. I can do a million non-moderator things that will annoy you if you piss me off.
Just leave me the fuck alone already. I've never once picked a fucking fight with you. Stop bitching about me. Stop talking about me. Stop shit talking me, and stop collectivizing people if you don't want to be thought of as a dirty fucking collectivist.
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I banned him last night.
His account appears active.
I did not delete his account.
"User is currently banned [View]"
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And no, I am not threatening to fucking ban you.
Keep pretending that I didn't say that, asshole.
"Problems" means you're gonna piss me off. I can do a million non-moderator things that will annoy you if you piss me off.
Just leave me the fuck alone already. I've never once picked a fucking fight with you. Stop bitching about me. Stop talking about me. Stop shit talking me, and stop collectivizing people if you don't want to be thought of as a dirty fucking collectivist.
Lets get our facts straight. You came after me on this particular thread. I have not once called you anything. Putting a disclaimer on a threat doesn't cancel it out. Not that you bothered on that last post.
Everybody seems to agree you got me over a barrel. Anybody want to tell me why I should just take this crap?
We can drop this right here and right now.
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fuck with somebody - get fucked with.
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We can drop this right here and right now.
That would be cool. Let's start now. No scorekeeping or anything, just an end to hostilities.
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This passive aggression from you mods has to stop.
You flung shit. Right there.
I called you out for collectivising people.
You are now fixating on that and repeatedly claiming that I am threatening you at the expense of your reputation as an honest person at this point.
Please drop it.
Jesus fucking Christ and people ask me why I barely post anymore.
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We can drop this right here and right now.
That would be cool. Let's start now. No scorekeeping or anything, just an end to hostilities.
+3
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OK.
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Worms!
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I love it when people get along.
Feels warm n' fuzzy n' shit.
Especially the makeup sex.
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Has anyone else noticed that at this rate the only active posters here will be the mods?
Basically ya got the same half dozen or so people here acting as mods who, mostly due to their seniority, excluding quickmike, would influence the BBS regardless of whether they were mods or not.
Not a unique situation to this BBS, but that's where the "we" and "they" come from. That and the "closing ranks" thing.. and the special rules for friends of insiders thing (which has lessened).
Like it or not that's how it is. Nothing personal against any of ya. Not a sign of a hoppin place when the only people on the dancefloor are the employees.
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Has anyone else noticed that at this rate the only active posters here will be the mods?
It usually takes a week or two for the goons to stop flopping around and people to start chatting again.
I could give you a list of about ten such incidents.
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Looks like another one is on the horizon.
Back in my bouncer days I smiled and was nice to the clientele. My boss would have fired my ass had I laid down the law at everyone who looked at me funny. I wasn't there to start any trouble, I certainly wasn't there to make everyone feel uncomfortable around me and my toughness. I guess I just thought preemptive strikes were a bad strategy in a place where it was supposed to be fun to be.
Road House, the best Patrick Swayze movie! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1vhNb_PHpc#noexternalembed)
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You think that post helps?
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Who's up next Al?
You think that post helps?
How come you aren't a mod yet? You're one of the last old skoolers not to.
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My boss would have fired my ass had I laid down the law at everyone who looked at me funny. I wasn't there to start any trouble, I certainly wasn't there to make everyone feel uncomfortable around me and my toughness. I guess I just thought preemptive strikes were a bad strategy in a place where it was supposed to be fun to be.
I get that, but are you suggesting no warnings? Don't say anything, wait for things to escalate, and then suddenly
BAN HAMMER!
I think people are going to complain about any moderation that happens when they're the recipients of it and not getting their way.
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Oh.. SerousSplinters is the fellow eh?
Don't think he's done anything out of the ordinary.. but that hasn't prevented others from gettin the boot so I think you're right.
I liked Pat in Next of Kin:
Next of Kin Trailer (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgCOPHplolE#)
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Just read Dale's post.
Receiving warnings makes sense if a ban, based on solid grounds, is imminent - but for fuck's sakes.. there's been a rash of bans lately.
I also think "Strike One", "Strike Two", etc. is far more likely to be perceived as a challenge rather than a warning. No one can honestly say that there isn't a notable amount of glee present when the banhammer comes out. That's not what modding is supposed to be about (trophies), and I question the validity of issues being left to "the discretion of the mods" - that's too frail a policy.
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Who's up next Al?
You think that post helps?
How come you aren't a mod yet? You're one of the last old skoolers not to.
Don' wanna.
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Collectivizing? Hmmm.
Next time someone here writes, "the police" or "the government" or maybe "corporations," I'm sure we'll all jump on his/her back, right?
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I question the validity of issues being left to "the discretion of the mods" - that's too frail a policy.
We could have a procedure where if someone has a dispute with the decision of a mod, they could vocalize their thoughts and everyone around them repeats it in a loud clear voice in unison and then everyone a little further out says it again. Also, if you agree with what has been said, you could raise your hands up and wiggle your fingers. That way we could determine if there's consensus before anyone acts too rashly.
Personally though, I like cutting through all the collectivist tragedy of the commons bureaucracy and lawyering bullshit and letting the forum owner be the supreme boss of his private property. When someone gets kicked off of private property, the best reason is "because I said so." It's as solid as it gets. I fucking... hate... lawyers and politicians.
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I question the validity of issues being left to "the discretion of the mods" - that's too frail a policy.
We could have a procedure where if someone has a dispute with the decision of a mod, they could vocalize their thoughts and everyone around them repeats it in a loud clear voice in unison and then everyone a little further out says it again. Also, if you agree with what has been said, you could raise your hands up and wiggle your fingers. That way we could determine if there's consensus before anyone acts too rashly.
................... or just leave the final verdict to Queen Spider, which is what I would suggest.
(http://images.wikia.com/southpark/images/3/32/VaticanQueenSpider.jpg)
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................... or just leave the final verdict to Queen Spider, which is what I would suggest.
Could that be my nickname from here on out?
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Collectivizing? Hmmm.
Next time someone here writes, "the police" or "the government" or maybe "corporations," I'm sure we'll all jump on his/her back, right?
Right on. I've made that point before here but it never got any traction.
Dale- you know how it is here. Discretion is easily swayed by who the offender is, what mood the mod may be in and if perhaps the butt of the joke happens to be a mod. An example of why discretion is sketchy- when I first got here I was told something like "Ya gotta be here for awhile in order to get the feel of who's posts are just harmless jokes and who the real assholes are." That's good stuff. Trouble is, no newcomers are given the chance to get cozy here.
Lurking for awhile and then posting would be smart, and I'm not saying let every asshole stay as long as they want.. I'm just questioning what the big hurry is all about. Far as I know no one is even hitting the ignore button on these people.
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................... or just leave the final verdict to Queen Spider, which is what I would suggest.
Could that be my nickname from here on out?
Own it!
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"New" user comes onto the site.
Mods know he is an "Old" user.
Mods keep cool for a couple days and watch, willing to let the PERMABANNED user poke around, and they see that rather than joining in on the conversation and playing nice, one out of every three posts the "New" user makes is bitching about other users by name.
MODS OR FUCKING NOT, DOESN'T MATTER.
He was asked to knock it off several times. He antagonized the mod.
Yes, he was given multiple chances, and if you look carefully he ended up getting five strikes instead of three. The last straw was when the "New" user changed his avatar to mock said mod.
He got fucking re-banned. Deal with it.
Did I enjoy it? What difference does my answer make because you seem to know what my fucking emotional state is over the internet even though I verbally (Textually, whatever) expressed no particular pleasure.
I had a youtube video link in my buffer waiting for him to continue behaving badly, and posted it when the time was right. This particular user is incapable of shutting the fuck up so it was only a matter of time.
This was totally fucking inevitable. How long it took was just a variable.
P.S. - Not that you have any curiosity about it, but no, I didn't enjoy doing it. I was trying to leave the house and Mel was waiting for me at the time. We needed to get cat food before the snow storm hit (And several other things that I just mentioned in the Lego thread) I was in a hurry. It was no more of an emotional event to me than picking a cat turd off of a tile floor with a paper towel. Mildy inconvenient and somewhat odious.
P.P.S. - The only person I would have ever taken any real pleasure in banning was gone before I ever became a mod. That would have been "Nathyn", a user you may not even be familiar with. That dude was dealt with internet style. Posted his dox and called his father and told on him. Again, all pre-mod status. Not in my nature to post dox now that I'm a mod. THAT would be an abuse of power.
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Collectivizing? Hmmm.
Next time someone here writes, "the police" or "the government" or maybe "corporations," I'm sure we'll all jump on his/her back, right?
I was wondering about that too. If Mr. Billy made the point earlier I am sorry I didn't catch it.
Mr. Shaw, why was "strike two" the Innocent little dig on the Lego thread?
Back to Dragline, I busted on him several times when he came back. He just took it and made the joke funnier.
I respect that.
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Mr. Shaw, why was "strike two" the Innocent little dig on the Lego thread?
Please reread my last post.
I gave the motherfucker five strikes anyhow.
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You don't have to defend yourself, John.
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You don't have to defend yourself, John.
You're right. Thank you.
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Nope, you don't you were just doing what you thought was right, sir.
Collectivising indeed.
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"New" user comes onto the site.
Mods know he is an "Old" user.
Mods keep cool for a couple days and watch, willing to let the PERMABANNED user poke around, and they see that rather than joining in on the conversation and playing nice, one out of every three posts the "New" user makes is bitching about other users by name.
MODS OR FUCKING NOT, DOESN'T MATTER.
He was asked to knock it off several times. He antagonized the mod.
Yes, he was given multiple chances, and if you look carefully he ended up getting five strikes instead of three. The last straw was when the "New" user changed his avatar to mock said mod.
He got fucking re-banned. Deal with it.
Did I enjoy it? What difference does my answer make because you seem to know what my fucking emotional state is over the internet even though I verbally (Textually, whatever) expressed no particular pleasure.
I had a youtube video link in my buffer waiting for him to continue behaving badly, and posted it when the time was right. This particular user is incapable of shutting the fuck up so it was only a matter of time.
This was totally fucking inevitable. How long it took was just a variable.
P.S. - Not that you have any curiosity about it, but no, I didn't enjoy doing it. I was trying to leave the house and Mel was waiting for me at the time. We needed to get cat food before the snow storm hit (And several other things that I just mentioned in the Lego thread) I was in a hurry. It was no more of an emotional event to me than picking a cat turd off of a tile floor with a paper towel. Mildy inconvenient and somewhat odious.
P.P.S. - The only person I would have ever taken any real pleasure in banning was gone before I ever became a mod. That would have been "Nathyn", a user you may not even be familiar with. That dude was dealt with internet style. Posted his dox and called his father and told on him. Again, all pre-mod status. Not in my nature to post dox now that I'm a mod. THAT would be an abuse of power.
I don't know what "dox" means.
It occurs to me that I may be wrong here. But BJ makes a point of pissing me off and I have been rather kind to the douchebag, even defending him a time or two. I respect WTFK and Fred's opinion. I like quickmike and Dale.
Twice bouncers have called the cops on me because I disagreed with them, I have issues with authority. That is the reason I took Mama Allies side on that whole sordid affair, I actually knew no one, I had to pick a side, someone was talking behind someone Else's back and I don't like that, I let her know. That is how I roll. But I can be counted on, friends have looked up and saw me still standing there after a hell of a lot more shit than mere words on a BBS could deliver. Some of those people were wrong but loyalty is important to me.
So, let me explain my side: As far as I could tell the man started a thread. You, Mr. Shaw started to talk about strikes and so on. Many others including a gay man and a fellow mod gave excellent points and pretty much dusted him off. Can he actually answer the ladies post? I doubt it. We will never know. This BBS has people (including me) who can easily beat a troll. And enjoy doing it. Remember when QuickMike took out that Tom Alcier fellow with the poem? That was awesome, and amusing to watch and educational for any observer. I liked having Dragline here because he made a great foil and supporter if so inclined.
I note that you and Alex at least agreed not to like him.
I note that you many times have put the ban candidates on watch and strike lists without them doing much there and then, I guess all us on the "scared shitless of Shaw list" are supposed to assume they are PMing deaththreats to kittens or something. Makes things unpleasant for them and the observers. What should they say? "Yes sir, one thousand pardons." and look like a John Shaw beholdant pussies?
Just my POV.
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Nah, dude started shit in another thread.
You musta missed it. He randomly chimed in to a thread with "Gee golly, I was REALLY SURPRISED when I found out John Shaw was made into a mod." And made a sad frowny.
Here's the actual quote -
I too was suprised to see John Shaw become a mod. :|
That was in response to a post that had nothing to do with me, but was generally about BBS mods.
It was earlier discussed (Or considered) in a mod area of the board whether the dude should have been allowed back at all in the first place before this.
Then, as I showed, 7 of his 23 posts (At the time) were direct complaints/insults toward other users. (Mods or not)
This whole thing with "Mods only get mad when THEY are the ones getting harassed." is nonsense.
Ken and BJ and Brasky had a war to end all fucking wars that lasted close to a year. Neither BJ or Brasky have messed with him since becoming mods.
Libman and I actually used to fucking get along pretty well, (Actually for almost two years) until he started robotically necroing all of his old threads and his constant account deletions and going on the attack in a really nasty way for getting called out on it.
The fact is, is that some people around here have a compulsion to attack mods just because they're mods, and then act all fucking persecuted when the mods respond to it. I keep hearing about how mods ignore abuse so long as it isn't the mods being abused, but no one has ever provided significant evidence.
But tell me this - How many times have you, personally, bitched about something that I have done? The answer is: Quite a fucking bit.
Have I ever gotten into your grill over it? Not really. (Apart from the occasional dismissive 'fuck off" type comment.) You know why? Because you usually don't act like a fucking asstard when you bitch about me. Dragline went full asstard obviously. Ecolitan went fucking full asstard when he started posting about how much pleasure he gets from seeing me angry, and THEN going full asstard.
Yes, I've seen you butt heads with BJ, but would you honestly call what he does a pattern of abusive behavior? I mean, can you post ten or fifteen (Or yes, seven) quotes where he just out of the blue says something nasty to you or calls you names?
Another example - How many times have I butted heads with Hellbilly? How many times does he bitch about mods? A. FUCKING. LOT. Dude has never been close to getting banned.
I can't imagine the new TOS being any clearer on the subject. No personal attacks. And constantly referring to "Some mods" or "The mods" is still referring to specific people.
Sometimes assholes get banned. Trust the mods or don't trust the mods, whatever. But the mods are probably seeing more than you are. Just... yeah.
And if you knew who splinter-prick was? Yeah, you'd prolly be feeling pretty silly right now. Just sayin'.
Consider this my last word on the subject of people complaining about mods. Tired of defending myself.
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Thing is Shaw, unless I've forgotten something, I've never been the aggressor in all the times we've butted heads.
The reason I said there's some joy in banning is because I remember the whole "Troll Basher' (or whatever) deal where you had a sort of claim to fame on being the ruthless fellow to handle trolls. It seems like you get a kick out of it, to me.
The reason I say the mods are a group of their own (aside from obvious reasons) is because some of you are quick to back one another up even when you aren't involved in whatever spectacle of the day happens to be going on. You guys did the same before becoming mods - no big deal - except now if you get on the bad side of one mod you're likely to automatically be on the bad side of a couple more.
Specifically it's you, BJ & Brasky by the way. That isn't opinion, that's my experience.
Yes, the taunting has dwindled over the past several months. But before then, how common was it to throw a faggot and/or pedo joke R3's way? Redneck/plumber jokes to Dragline? Was it Ecolitan who was made fun of because he's short? I dunno.. I think it was him. Libman was called a peo too pretty often right?
I'm done too. No worries and all that - it is what it is.
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Thats it Hellbilly, YER FUCKIN BANNED!!! :P
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Hee!
I shouldn't have said that I'm done, since there's a few questions up there, so instead I'll just say let's see how it pans out.
Should also add that I'm not holding grudges either against Shaw or Brasky. I don't forget and dynamics change and all that, but I'm neutral at worse on all this shit. It's not as fun at it was, which is why I post less, but eh - whatever.
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But before then, how common was it to throw a faggot and/or pedo joke R3's way? Redneck/plumber jokes to Dragline? Was it Ecolitan who was made fun of because he's short? I dunno.. I think it was him. Libman was called a peo too pretty often right?
1. I wanna see one example of me, personally, ever calling Richard fruity. I very specifically repeatedly defended him because I'd spoken to him IRL a couple times and saw what he was really doing. Was performance art. Wasn't even really trolling until he started getting pissy near the end. I thought he was hilarious.
2. I never called Dragline anything other than a "Dirty Saxon". (Until he had his hissy, then I called him all sorts of things.) I didn't even know he was from the South or whatever. So also untrue.
3. I never called Ecolitan anything either until he went on his rampage, and I don't have any idea about the "short" thing. Never happened. Someone else may have said something like that tho maybe?
4. Libman was called a pedo for starting multiple threads asking "what was so wrong" with pedophilia. At least half a dozen.
I AM NOT WE. I AM NOT THEM. I AM JUST ME.
So there's that.
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No sweat. I didn't single you out with those questions.
Point is that these little spats come and go and shouldn't be considered such serious business.
Not gonna split hairs with ya on the we/me thing.
Point is that some former "regular" posters engaged in the taunts and whatnot and it was no big deal. But now it's all serious business and "you guys" have the advantage in the form of ban hammers, resetting posting privileges, etc. So, knowing that "you guys" participated in taunts, that you act as a group in backing one another up and that you're all mods - it's no surprise that some folks think of "you guys" as bullies.
I don't think of you as bullies. But I do think you've insulated yourselves to the point that you can't be objective.
You didn't address my claim that I have never been the one to start shit with you - always has been the reverse. I wish you would because 1) I wanna know if I'm wrong & 2) it supports my claim that you're too eager to engage in (perceived) Troll Bashing.
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1. All that shit stopped after the new TOS was created.
2. I never, EVER said that I was above it all and incapable of being wrong. I admit it and admit it clearly and openly right here -
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/if-you-want-the-bbs-to-have-more-traffic-here%27s-a-handy-guide/ (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/if-you-want-the-bbs-to-have-more-traffic-here%27s-a-handy-guide/)
And in several other places.
3. On "Starting shit" - I don't like the way you have (Historically) fixated on race and I have a beef with that. I have stopped telling you my opinions about what I've concluded from your behavior in regards to this subject and you have lessened the severity of your fixation, either because of worries about moderators or the realization that what you have said in the past might give people (Yes, like me) the wrong idea about you.
So yes, I used to go off on you periodically. And I don't anymore. It was a waste of time and energy for me to do it and it would have never resolved anything and you continue to assert that you are not a racist. Feel better? I don't like your attitudes about race, but you say you aren't a racist and I try to take you at your word. That's the best I can give you.
So repeatedly pointing out that "Hey, John says this now and he used to behave differently before." as if I'm some goddamned hypocrite is a load of shit. I grew out of a certain type of behavior for many reasons, some of which were openly and honestly admitted as "Wrong" and "Unproductive."
Special note - When was the last time I said the word "Troll" on a regular basis on the board? When was the last time I expressed pleasure at "Bashing trolls"?
Couple years maybe? I don't bash trolls anymore here because I don't have to. Hence the trolls getting tolerated, then warned, then fucking banned. Troll bashing was a thing I did to keep myself in a positive frame of mind and stick around at the BBS when I had no other options. Now abusive people get fucking banned. Poof.
If I had to go back to troll bashing to maintain my sanity on the BBS now I'd just leave. I don't have the time, energy, patience, or stubbornness any more.
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Tell you what Mr. Shaw, if the next time a controversial poster comes on and they are simply ignored, and not warned or given strikes until a specific complaint is reported by a user and then some sort of BBS Armageddon happens, I will shut up about it. As it is, the whole warning and strike thing smells of power mad authority. I would believe that being a mod was tough and thankless if you and Brasky hadn't been so hurt sounding when you alls mod status was yanked. I would argue that on a libertarian oriented message board the "cops" could at least wait to be called before they barge in and save somebody.
Is that unreasonable?
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Tell you what Mr. Shaw, if the next time a controversial poster comes on and they are simply ignored, and not warned or given strikes until a specific complaint is reported by a user and then some sort of BBS Armageddon happens, I will shut up about it. As it is, the whole warning and strike thing smells of power mad authority. I would believe that being a mod was tough and thankless if you and Brasky hadn't been so hurt sounding when you alls mod status was yanked. I would argue that on a libertarian oriented message board the "cops" could at least wait to be called before they barge in and save somebody.
Is that unreasonable?
Not if the "cops" are the ones being attacked. This is the fucking problem you seem to have. MODS ARE ALSO HUMAN BEINGS AND USERS ON THIS BOARD.
Also, "Warning and strike thing" was me NOT banning the already banned user dude right off the bat and giving him the fucking opportunity to come back and stay on the board even though he's a giant fucking already banned piece of shit. Your head is on fucking backwards in regards to this one.
Also, don't ever compare me to a fucking cop again, and don't fucking call me "Mr. Shaw". Mr. Fucking Shaw is my father. :-(
And one more fucking thing fancy pants, getting upset and hurt by being demodded was never about a fucking loss of power. You have a twisted up fucking brain to think that about me. It was about going out of my way to give Ian free labor for fucking years and having him turn around and arbitrarily slap me down over an email from some random asshole troll without ever even contacting me or finding out what was actually going on, which is why as soon as he got called out he made amends.
So fuck that noise, too. But why don't you always assume that everything I do is some fucking epic high school power struggle where I'm constantly flouting my power against all you little people. Jesus fuck Al.
Fuck this bullshit. See everyone in a few days or something.
UPDATE - This person has also been banned from the FSP forum by Sorens himself and the Shire Society forum by Dale. Go tell the mods they are on a power trip there, too.
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I'll take that as a "no".
Very well.
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I'll take that as a "no".
Very well.
Yeah you're starting to fucking bum me out.
:-(
I too, will no longer read and give a complete response to the things that you say as well.
EDIT- I probably should have sworn at you as much as I did. Sorry. But you're bumming me out.
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Usually, the arguments are the warnings.
Now there are no arguments, at least from me.
People need to add that up in their heads. The problem was, participants in the dance of Fair Warning got all giggly and figured it was their time to shine.
Also, this:
MODS ARE ALSO HUMAN BEINGS AND USERS ON THIS BOARD.
And this:
It was about going out of my way to give Ian free labor for fucking years
I got personal reasons why I don't AMP. Doesn't means I won't volunteer. Everyone on their "voluntarism" high horse should respect that. Hours are worth dollars, and I put a LOT of fucking hours in here. Or, at least, I did, before people started being platinum-plated assholes.
I guess its all part of the cycle of life, people get sick of the bullshit and drift away.
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Thanks for the reply. I'll keep this short, and I'm saying this in the kindest way.
The point I'm making is that you're too aggressive in this. Personally, I hate aggression that isn't necessary - but that's just me. By appearances being a mod means a lot to you, like you internalize the stuff that goes on here & I'm not sure that's a good thing. Alls I'm suggesting is that you relax a little.
This ain't a war on mods. Al and myself are giving you feedback and it's my guess that others here may have the same thoughts on it but aren't chiming in, or they were banned or left or whatever. More significant than that though I'd say most people here don't give a shit either way, and that's the direction I'm headed.
**
Saw Brasky posted before I hit Post, so..
"People need to add that up in their heads. The problem was, participants in the dance of Fair Warning got all giggly and figured it was their time to shine. "
Probably time to name names, as I suggested before. I do and feel that it cuts away a lot of bullshit.
"mods are people too, etc."
This is taking things to dramatic extremes, in a sad way.
You guys (Shaw, BJ & Brasky) were involved in stupid arguments, taunts, etc. before having mod status (yes I know it's been reduced) so what's the big deal? I acknowledge you all as being mods but don't aim to treat you any differently because of it. The difference is the ban button & that's it. You ganged up on people in the old days so why wouldn't it continue now. Again, that's my experience.
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I think everyone needs to calm the fuck down.
Sure, some shits been said that bothers people here I suppose. Its all opinion though.
Not trying to be the hippie guy saying "cmon guys, lets sing kumbaya together", but lets just think about letting shit go a bit more.
Its not that big a deal.
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"mods are people too, etc."
This is taking things to dramatic extremes, in a sad way.
There's the whole problem, in a nutshell, right there. Mods are expected to take it in the ass and smile because we are slightly less than human. Users aren't allowed to harass and abuse other users but have every right to do it to mods, who are also other users.
ABUSIVE USERS ABUSE MODS FOR NOT TOLERATING ABUSIVE USERS ABUSING MODS, PICS + DIVX AT ELEVEN.
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I didn't bitch about it, but Dragline was unduly abusive to me when he came back, too. I decided respond cooly to it; particularly when out of the blue he called me a pedo. I asked for a clarification and didn't get it. Oh, and FWIW, I wasn't sure it was dragline, but I knew it was someone who had been here (trolling) before.
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I didn't bitch about it, but Dragline was unduly abusive to me when he came back, too. I decided respond cooly to it; particularly when out of the blue he called me a pedo. I asked for a clarification and didn't get it. Oh, and FWIW, I wasn't sure it was dragline, but I knew it was someone who had been here (trolling) before.
Didn't catch the thing about pedo calling. 'Least he got it for general asshattery.
As for not being sure about who it was...
Be a little more sure about it...
Because odds are high...
That it may...
Have...
(Response written in Rob Jacobs triangle/ellipses structure for giggles.)
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"mods are people too, etc."
This is taking things to dramatic extremes, in a sad way.
There's the whole problem, in a nutshell, right there. Mods are expected to take it in the ass and smile because we are slightly less than human. Users aren't allowed to harass and abuse other users but have every right to do it to mods, who are also other users.
ABUSIVE USERS ABUSE MODS FOR NOT TOLERATING ABUSIVE USERS ABUSING MODS, PICS + DIVX AT ELEVEN.
..aaand right after that bit you quoted is this:
"You guys (Shaw, BJ & Brasky) were involved in stupid arguments, taunts, etc. before having mod status (yes I know it's been reduced) so what's the big deal? I acknowledge you all as being mods but don't aim to treat you any differently because of it."
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I have never felt abuse from users for being a mod.
You've been a mod for twenty-eight days, haven't been involved in any disputes.
I think you should "take point" in the next skirmish, we'll see how well you fare.
I've been waiting for that awhile. You're gonna have to eat a lotta crow when it comes time, hoss.
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I [...] don't aim to treat you any differently because of it."
Horse plop.
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I [...] don't aim to treat you any differently because of it."
Horse plop.
Proof? Example?
Otherwise...
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I have never felt abuse from users for being a mod.
Cause you're taking it in stride.
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I [...] don't aim to treat you any differently because of it."
Horse plop.
Proof? Example?
Otherwise...
I think the arguments where I, (and others) asked you to tone down your nonsense - and you responded by re-naming yourself Jew Spick Nigger Kike are both proof and example.
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I think the arguments where I, (and others) asked you to tone down your nonsense - and you responded by re-naming yourself Jew Spick Nigger Kike are both proof and example.
If I get an email with a report on this post, I'm going to assume it's hellbilly and ban him myself, eliminating the need for that I don't want to be the one to ban hellbilly thread.
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It says who reported it right in the e-mail body.
It was Admiral Jewsmith.
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I think the arguments where I, (and others) asked you to tone down your nonsense - and you responded by re-naming yourself Jew Spick Nigger Kike are both proof and example.
Oh. That again. Me demonstrating clearly that the approach to handling "bigotry" here was a failure since it only applied to bigoted phrases targeting black folks, but did nothing to address slurs targeting whites, asians, latinos, gays, etc.
Had you not been a Mod at that time, you and I wouldn't have had such a clash. If any conflict at all had emerged between us it would have been hashed out - but you wouldn't have had the option to fiddle with my status here. That backs up what I've been saying all along.
(Not that I'm complaining but you included "Nigger" where it wasn't present in the name I created back then. The name I created contained a few slurs you hadn't bothered to address in your campaign against bigotry... this the whole reason this shit exists.)
If I get an email with a report on this post, I'm going to assume it's hellbilly and ban him myself, eliminating the need for that I don't want to be the one to ban hellbilly thread.
Can't say I'm surprised. Thanks for being totally transparent about your bias. Beats me as to why you have any issues at all with me though. You and I have had practically no interaction here and what little there was wasn't negative. ...which leads me to think of this as yet another example of the cozy "inner circle" that exists between a few folks here.
If I had to guess I'd say this is a result of your warm interaction with and mild "swoon" over Brasky and his dated yet quirky cryptic ramblings. I'd wager that his "jokes" about wantin to fuck ya never hurt either. Funny thing how your bias emerges just as Brasky and I have this little clash, eh?
- if you guys..err.. can't phrase it that way any longer.. I mean you "Mods" ...err... I mean "some of you Mods".. insist on rehashing the racist stuff (with the implication that I am racist).. again, the burden of proof is lies with you. Find a racist post from me anywhere on this BBS and this whole thing can be put to an end.
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It says who reported it right in the e-mail body.
It was Admiral Jewsmith.
For the record, Joy, I've not once ever reported a post. Actually I did once but it was a joke and the mod knew it right away.
A question for the mods though - is it acceptable for a Moderator to amend a forum member's name in such a manner as this? Oh. Golly.
Especially considering that the admirable Admiral is of the Jewish faith?
Was that 3 Mod Failures in a row?
One uses a slur that I had not used previously, the dreaded "N Word". I don't know if the Admiral was offended by "Nigger" or "Kike", but I do know that at some point of the two words only the word "Nigger" was considered offensive enough to filter.
Another Mod displays her failure in deduction skills with a post blaming me for adding to the drama. Gee whiz I just can't figure out why.
And then a third Mod corrects the second Mod but slips in a slightly naughty jab at the fellow who may have been offended at the first Mods terminology.
Wow.
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*POKE MOD* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* MMMMAAAAAAAWWWW THE MODS ARE YELLING AT MEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!111111oneoneone
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*POKE MOD* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!
*POKE* MMMMAAAAAAAWWWW THE MODS ARE YELLING AT MEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!111111oneoneone
That sort of reply is what one resorts to when they don't have a solid foundation to their argument.
You're so certain you're right in all this, yeah? Then it should only take a few seconds for you to put all this drama to rest.
Put a little effort into it & answer the points I've laid out for ya.
**
Ah, and I've never asked why anyone is yelling at me. I suppose you're referencing Joy in this one since I said I had no idea why she's singled me out. If so, like I said, I've had very little interaction with her and never "poked" her.
As for you - you've started trouble with me since basically day one and several times since. You've admitted as much. Prove your claims or lay off, otherwise you're violating the TOS that you authored.
For Brasky - he got butthurt cause I called him out on his ....rather selective ...."anti bigotry" word filter. What should have been a lame yet friendly exchange immediately became a power trip on his end. You can call that me poking him, sure. You can also call it me making a good point.
BJ - another case where I haven't had much contact, yet here we are. Can't poke a guy you don't talk to. When you and I had some shit going on he offered to ban me, presumably on your behalf.. "I could just go ahead and ban him you know" - or some shit like that.
So how does "*POKE* WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?!?!" even fit?
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John, as long as you continue to respond to this it's never going to end.
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John, as long as you continue to respond to this it's never going to end.
Uhh.. might want to review how things have gone since.... I'm the one responding. It's the perpetual cycle of defending myself. It's easy to make idle claims, not so easy to back them up.
Feel free to rebut any part of what I said and prove it false. Or keep bullshittin.
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It says who reported it right in the e-mail body.
It was Admiral Jewsmith.
For the record, Joy, I've not once ever reported a post. Actually I did once but it was a joke and the mod knew it right away.
A question for the mods though - is it acceptable for a Moderator to amend a forum member's name in such a manner as this? Oh. Golly.
Especially considering that the admirable Admiral is of the Jewish faith?
Was that 3 Mod Failures in a row?
One uses a slur that I had not used previously, the dreaded "N Word". I don't know if the Admiral was offended by "Nigger" or "Kike", but I do know that at some point of the two words only the word "Nigger" was considered offensive enough to filter.
Another Mod displays her failure in deduction skills with a post blaming me for adding to the drama. Gee whiz I just can't figure out why.
And then a third Mod corrects the second Mod but slips in a slightly naughty jab at the fellow who may have been offended at the first Mods terminology.
Wow.
Actually it wasn't me. BJ is just stirring up crap.
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Bj lied about somebody!?
Go ahead and fucking let that slide you bunch of fucks.
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Bj lied about somebody!?
Go ahead and fucking let that slide you bunch of fucks.
IMAGE DELETED because I was an ass and forgot to remove Sam's Email addy.
Apologies should probably be in order.
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Looks like I was wrong. Sorry.
I am done here.
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Bj lied about somebody!?
Go ahead and fucking let that slide you bunch of fucks.
Apologies should probably be in order.
Wrong post in the wrong thread. I jokingly reported a post you made to point out inconsistencies. I had nothing to do with that other post and do not appreciate you posting my e-mail address. Thought you were a friend John.
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Wrong post in the wrong thread. I jokingly reported a post you made to point out inconsistencies. I had nothing to do with that other post and do not appreciate you posting my e-mail address. Thought you were a friend John.
Aw hell. I wasn't trying to call you out for anything, man, and I wasn't try to expose your email. Someone called mods liars about the reported post. I was just providing evidence.
I apologize and I'll delete the image. FWIW it was posted at 3am and only a couple people would have seen it.
EDIT- Wait - this whole thing was in regards to you reporting my comment in tomfops TOS thread. Right? That is the post you reported. (I got the joke)
Bonerjoe said that you made the post when Joy got mad, which is true. The point of the whole thing was that BJ didn't want Joy banning Hellbilly for an action he didn't take. Also - I knew you were just busting balls so I didn't chime in. Hopefully that clears some things up.
Unless I am missing something...
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Wrong post in the wrong thread. I jokingly reported a post you made to point out inconsistencies. I had nothing to do with that other post and do not appreciate you posting my e-mail address. Thought you were a friend John.
Aw hell. I wasn't trying to call you out for anything, man, and I wasn't try to expose your email. Someone called mods liars about the reported post. I was just providing evidence.
I apologize and I'll delete the image. FWIW it was posted at 3am and only a couple people would have seen it.
EDIT- Wait - this whole thing was in regards to you reporting my comment in tomfops TOS thread. Right? That is the post you reported. (I got the joke)
Bonerjoe said that you made the post when Joy got mad, which is true. The point of the whole thing was that BJ didn't want Joy banning Hellbilly for an action he didn't take. Also - I knew you were just busting balls so I didn't chime in. Hopefully that clears some things up.
Unless I am missing something...
I'm sure there's just miscommunication here. I believe we were discussing different posts. I never reported any post by anyone else except the one you in fact specified.
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I'm sure there's just miscommunication here. I believe we were discussing different posts. I never reported any post by anyone else except the one you in fact specified.
Well again I apologize because I wasn't trying to misrepresent you or anything.
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Is or was hellbilly banned?
If so, who did it and why?
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God damn it.
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Wasn't me and I have no idea who.
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I honestly don't know what to do.
It isn't my style to tattle on people, and just keep your mouth shut BJ, I hate back stabbing shit spreaders more than anything. Two years ago, I was just getting into the whole libertarian thing and was putting minorities on pedestals- including bisexuals, normally I am not reasonable with problematic rumour spreaders at all. I have since learned to judge everybody do to their actions. I think you are a repugnant bully, and I don't see how anyone would ever trust you. After what you did to the Christian Anarchist, I can't believe Ian gave you your stars back.
I have my own methods of dealing with real life bullies, believe it or not I usually do not complain more then once, but reading back on this thread I do indeed look like a whiny pussy.
I give quite a bit of money to FTL and I don't like the "bouncers" in the cafe intimidating me or my friends. If I felt that way about a bar I frequented it would only be fair to let the bar owner know why I didn't want to be there anymore.
Yes I like LRN, but I am sick of trying to make this BBS a nice place to be and having to wince at some mod action every week or so. I assume the bar owner in this instance will tell me to fuck off and I don't really blame him, Ian doesn't like to get advice from his customers, and neither do I actually. (but I pretend to :D, I am not Ian level principled)
But in all honesty many think I am wrong and I do not trust my temper, Joys "Yeah leave if you feel uncomfortable, but you should keep right on paying." post irritates me the most I think.
I find this post embarrassing when I read back through it. I will post it anyway because I want people to see that I don't like any of this either. It fucking sucks.
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In all fairness, this is the only BBS (that I know of anyway), where you can have a huge disagreement with the moderators, right or wrong, doesn't matter, and not get banned in like 2 seconds. Trust me, I've been kicked out of PLENTY of em for far less than the things I do here at least once a month.
I'm not here to stick up for anyone or take sides either way, because I think everyone needs to chill and not get so worked up, on both sides.
It's pretty easy here.
Just stating that fact.
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Nothing I can say would be more effective than what's been done. True colors have never been brighter and each point I've made about power tripping Mods has been proven without a doubt. Great job.
I'm not saying that entirely regarding my own ban but mostly regarding alaric's. There's no way to justify that.
My guesses regarding who's doing the bans, and why, are:
It's BJ having some slightly sadistic fun in an attempt to put a damper on the fuss. If that's the case I can appreciate it to a degree. I have a good sense of humor even when I'm the target, and I'm a bit of a sadist myself so I get the joke. But it's still lame. As long as he continues doing his part in providing reparations, I support the lad.
Or it's Brasky pulling more of the "silent type" macho guy stuff. That I can't get into. I am the silent type, but consider the whole macho/alpha male/drunken beatnik role playing kinda sad. If you're gonna be obscure, ya gotta keep the material fresh, so said the Chinaman who sleeps on a cot at the grocery store or something, for the 12th time.
Joy put her (running) foot in her mouth already. And it just ain't ladylike to have such misplaced aggression. So I doubt it's her. But I am curently at odds with her beau, so who knows.
Shaw wouldn't ban alaric for his practically non-existent part in the whole thing. He mighta banned me but I don't think so. Despite our history I think Shaw is just a little classier than that. I can credit him to an extent - he truly doesn't like some things I've said and has interacted with me accordingly and has been open about it. I make no apologies for anything I've said and have extended the invitation to have someone correct me if I'm wrong. So at least there's nothing unclear about where he and I stand, unlike the others.
quickmike is too level headed & collected to have done so.
So I guess that just leaves blackie. Motherfuckin blackie. Nah.. don't think so.
Doesn't matter. My time here is short.
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Gee, I'm sorta offended you didn't find a reason to rip on me, too. You ripped on just about everyone else.
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Alaric was offered the opportunity to come back, no questions asked, by me, last night.
He has chosen not to and has withdrawn his AMP, which is his prerogative.
I'm gonna copypasta the same thing to you that I sent to him - (In part, the rest of the email was none of anyone else's business unless Alaric decides to come back and share.)
"...But I gotta tell ya - There's no conspiracy against you. There has been exactly one conversation among the mods about any of this stuff, and it's a thread in the mod section created by me, called "I'm not gonna be the one to ban Hellbilly."
I started that thread in October last year and there are maybe ten posts, most of which were from the last week, discussing that Splinter dude, who was a known (Banned) user.
You guys are reading way too much into mod actions and mod solidarity..."
"...I understand that among our type of people there is a tendency to look for corruption and abuse of power. I really really get that, there is also a tendency to see monsters where there *Are* no monsters.
Your call. On a personal note, if you decide to come back, wouldja please (EDIT - "Consider") what I've said and lay the fuck off of the mods? It really sucks I have to ask you that, and I'm asking that not as a mod, but as a human being talking to another human being. Nobody likes getting bitched at constantly."
The new TOS is in effect. Abusive people are gonna get banned from time to time. The definition of "Abusive" falls onto the shoulders of the mods. That's the way it is. I challenge you to compare negatively the tolerance level shown on this BBS by mods to almost anywhere else on the internet. You won't be able to beyond a couple fringe sites like 4chan. The BBS isn't a worm infested butthole like 4chan and hopefully never will be. Would be nice to have their numbers obviously, heh.
Just stop busting balls man. You're still shitting in people's laps. Go reread your last post. You were basically bitching out one person after another by name and critiquing/insulting them. If you keep chronically doing that someone is gonna haul off and ban you, either temp or perma. I refuse to do it personally because I'm not gonna take the fucking flack and have another user take up the mantle of designated oppressed victim over it.
But I will do this - Every time you bitch about mods, individually or as a group, Imma post the word *DING* and make a slashmark in my sig.
Now knock it the fuck off already. Jesus.
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Gee, I'm sorta offended you didn't find a reason to rip on me, too. You ripped on just about everyone else.
I didn't mention anyone who isn't a mod... so why ask this?
Did you want to be fair and acknowledge that I have also been ripped on?
Did you miss the bits where I said I'm not offended by BJ or Shaw, if it turns out they did the bans?
Am I not supposed to say anything about the obvious because those who I am "ripping on" are Mods? Mods who have said explicitly that they do not wish to be treated differently because they are mods? Yet who act differently (Specifically Joy & Brasky) ?
Are you not saying anything critical about it because you think I'm wrong or because you don't want to be the next person singled out, like alaric has been? things changed for me here after I objected to the harassment of/banning of Richard, Alex, Dragline and a couple others. Now alaric gets a ban because he objected to my ban. Pattern not clear to you yet?
Since you asked though - I'm surprised you're still here. You've been here ;longer than I, harassed more and seem to have just taken it, yet still you aren't treated warmly.
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It's good that you invited alaric back. Would be better for whomever banned him to invite him back and admit their mistake.
I'm perfectly aware that I critiqued people by name. It was you who asked me not to collectivize the mods. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. It's best to call people out by name.
It was you who asked me not to treat anyone differently because they are a mod, yet you say:
"But I will do this - Every time you bitch about mods, individually or as a group, Imma post the word *DING* and make a slashmark in my sig. "
...eh? You do see that this makes no sense, right?
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I'm perfectly aware that I critiqued people by name. It was you who asked me not to collectivize the mods. Damned if I do, damned if I don't. It's best to call people out by name.
Yeah, because I want you to do both. By that I mean - Quit yer bitchin'. Nobody is out to get you. Frankly, I was given the offer to make your ban permanent just due to your name change during the last dustup. Bans are gonna happen on the BBS occasionally. This is seriously something you're gonna have to come to grips with because the constant griping is gonna eventually come to a head.
It was you who asked me not to treat anyone differently because they are a mod, yet you say:
"But I will do this - Every time you bitch about mods, individually or as a group, Imma post the word *DING* and make a slashmark in my sig. "
...eh? You do see that this makes no sense, right?
I was trying to lighten the mood. It obviously didn't go over as well as I thought it would. Sorry. If you seriously thought that I would monitor your every post you're... Whatever. It was a joke, man. I was trying to get you to imagine how many dings you'd earn and consider the possibility that this is more about you thinking that you're being persecuted than it being about you actually being persecuted.
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QUITCHERFUCKIN BITCHIN
Alaric will come back.
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1.
Nobody is out to get you.
2.
Nobody is out to get you. Frankly, I was given the offer to make your ban permanent just due to your name change during the last dustup.
Everything hinges on those two simple points.
Simple to follow:
1. Because of my name change, I was targeted. I am being targeted. Reference Joy's mistake.
2. The name change explicitly showed that the "anti bigotry" policy completely disregarded any slur that applied to any individual other than black folks. It was apparently designed to protect the feelings of only those who may be offended by slurs targeting black folks. That is not anti bigotry. No one has acknowledged that, yet it's obvious.
I'm not angry. I don't dislike any of you. I have lost some respect for the four of you. I didn't initiate the aggression. It can be said I was aggressive towards Brasky in changing my name while he was on guard. It should be obvious that the point I made in doing so is a valid one and I make no apologies for that. There was no debate over the name change, as there would have been if Brasky hadn't had the means to shitcan me. Instead I was restricted to posting in the Rubber Room where Brasky proceeded to edit the text of my posts within, adding "Cocks" or something.
I don't understand how anyone can be confused by that. That's exactly how it went down. If anyone thinks otherwise, show me where I've said something that isn't true. "Quit your whining" doesn't cover it.
**
edit:
I should add: if I had treated any one of you the way you've treated me, and you just sat there and took it, I'd lose all respect for you. I'm sure you can relate.
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1. Because of my name change, I was targeted. I am being targeted. Reference Joy's mistake.
No. No no no. That was two days ago after you got banned. Ian and I had an email exchange, and he asked me if you were "The racist." and I said "He is the one who changed his name to X." (Which I will not repeat)
He said "I'll let you decide."
That was Ian, asking about racism, two days ago, and giving me the discretion to deal with you. Not some ongoing thing.
Reference Joy's mistake.
Joy didn't make a mistake. She said "If that was Hellbilly..." You and Alaric were in the middle of ruckusing. She assumed it was one of you rather than a joke out of left field from Sam, a person who wasn't really involved directly in said ruckus. She speculated. That's all.
Joy sits back and watches people she gets along with well take shit all the time. I was surprised that she got angry because she is usually the most even tempered person on the board and all of this bullshit has finally actually managed to piss her off.
2. The name change explicitly showed that the "anti bigotry" policy completely disregarded any slur that applied to any individual other than black folks. It was apparently designed to protect the feelings of only those who may be offended by slurs targeting black folks. That is not anti bigotry. No one has acknowledged that, yet it's obvious.
We're not discussing this topic again. Ever. Have it with someone else. Go to Stormfront or wherever.
"And the rest."
Dude... What part of -
F. Chronic expressions of direct abuse toward a collective ethnic group of people will not be tolerated. If you collectivize a group of people by their genotype and make directly negative comments about said group you are treading thin ice. The determination of the words “Ethnic group” and “Chronic” shall be left to the discretion of the moderators.
don't you understand?
As for your particular situation, "Ethnic group" has been clearly determined. "Direct" and "Chronic" have not, which is why you're still here.
I will be willing to discuss the perceived enmity between yourself and "THE MODS" - But you and I are not going to have further talks:
A: Race
B: Language lawyering the TOS to find exemptions.
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Yes. Yes, yes. I have been targeted since the name change. And before that as well. No use in denying it... otherwise how would I have been branded as "the racist" ? For 5 years or so.
Of course Ian meant me by asking if I am "the racist". Still waiting for someone to back up that claim. I'm sure to say some things that people don't like or agree with - but show a single racist word from me. Of course you won't discuss the issue. You've invested years into painting a portrait of me as a racist yet there isn't one instance of me making racist remarks. Easier to make yourself feel like a champ by calling names rather than having a discussion.
Don't answer but, why won't you repeat the slurs I used in my name change? If they're offensive, and if you are a Mod, and are appalled by offensive remarks on a personal level.. it would seem we share the same point of view on those slurs. So why didn't you insist they be added to the anti bigotry word filter? Kinda like I did. As a Mod with hardcore principles regarding bigotry I would expect more from you. Just a thought.
Joy's words do not match your quote. Calling me out because she apparently doesn't understand the complexities of the Mod control panel *is* a mistake. Cliques are neat... in middle school.
If I get an email with a report on this post, I'm going to assume it's hellbilly and ban him myself, eliminating the need for that I don't want to be the one to ban hellbilly thread.
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And you wonder why I banned hellbilly for trolling.
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And you wonder why I banned hellbilly for trolling.
Did I?
Seriously though, this whole conversation is me trying to put an end to this bullshit without anyone getting banned.
I wouldn't be having the conversation if all I wanted to do was be rid of him rather than convince him to stop acting like an ass.
<<<Trying and admittedly failing.
Dude is certain he's being persecuted to the point where he's constantly lashing out and then shouts that his feelings of persecution are justified when people he's constantly lashing out at tell him off.
Starting to wonder if I'm being milked for lulz at this point now though. Wouldn't be the first (Or probably last) time I've been suckered that way.
It's like
Hellbilly - "Bitch bitch bitch TYRANTS bitch bitch!"
Me - "Yeah, you gotta stop bitching, seriously."
Hellbilly - "SEE EVERYONE?!?! SEE HIM OPPRESSING ME?"
Me - "Jesus fucking Christ shut up already."
Hellbilly - "HELP HELP I'M BEING REPRESSED!!!"
*sigh*
Hellbilly - If you just drop it, abide by the TOS, and don't fucking language lawyer and we have no problems.
Keep bitching and this thread eventually gets deleted. Tired of this shit.
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I'd bet a handjob that him and Babalagutz are laughing like schoolgirls on IM.
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I'd bet a handjob that him and Babalagutz are laughing like schoolgirls on IM.
Come on man, I'm trying to keep this vaguely in the realm of "Civil".
I'll continue to try to give him the benefit of the doubt until I'm convinced he's just trying to bum me out for fun.
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Its funny how as we get closer to the truth, the more obnoxious people become.
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I propose everybody drop all hostilities, for now.
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Gee, I'm sorta offended you didn't find a reason to rip on me, too. You ripped on just about everyone else.
I didn't mention anyone who isn't a mod... so why ask this?
Did you want to be fair and acknowledge that I have also been ripped on?
Did you miss the bits where I said I'm not offended by BJ or Shaw, if it turns out they did the bans?
Am I not supposed to say anything about the obvious because those who I am "ripping on" are Mods? Mods who have said explicitly that they do not wish to be treated differently because they are mods? Yet who act differently (Specifically Joy & Brasky) ?
Are you not saying anything critical about it because you think I'm wrong or because you don't want to be the next person singled out, like alaric has been? things changed for me here after I objected to the harassment of/banning of Richard, Alex, Dragline and a couple others. Now alaric gets a ban because he objected to my ban. Pattern not clear to you yet?
Since you asked though - I'm surprised you're still here. You've been here ;longer than I, harassed more and seem to have just taken it, yet still you aren't treated warmly.
I'll lay it right on the line. I've always considered you at troll.
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I'll lay it right on the line. I've always considered you at troll.
I'll try to cut through the shit. In the end, that's what it ultimately comes down to. People are always asking "what is a troll". It comes down to motivations. You're never going to have a set of rules that will adequately define trolling. It's ultimately going to take a judgment call.
A troll tries to stir up shit and get a reaction out of people, but what makes them a troll is why they do it. A troll might just be the digital version of an attention-seeker, someone who craves any attention even if it's bad, like a kid who throws tantrums or the drunk at a party. A troll might be doing it purely for entertainment, realizing how much fun you can have when you figure out how to push people's buttons and manipulate them. Or the troll might do it to feel better about themselves because they're a loser IRL. Trolls are a sort of emotional parasite because they're having their fun or temporary self-esteem boost at the expense of everyone else. In any case, the motivations for stirring up shit are incredibly selfish and take place at the expense of others. That's why they ultimately will be the death of a forum and why the forums that stay really active and vital are fairly heavily moderated.
I'm sure we all know IRL drama queens, attention whores, high-maintenance friends, etc. They can literally be exhausting to be around. I've heard some people described as emotional energy vortexes. That's what a troll is in the virtual world.
But someone can also appear to be "stirring up shit" anytime they post something that inspires cognitive dissonance to make a valid point. A discussion on a touchy subject can get heated and might even get kind of personal, insults going back and forth, etc. It's still not necessarily trolling if the motivations are sincere.
That said, this is not to say I'm agreeing that Hellbilly is actually a troll. If he's a sincere racist (which I realize he claims not to be and I'm not arguing it right now), then that could even be evidence that he's not a troll. If his motivations, for instance, were to argue for racism intellectually and not just to stir up shit, then that's not trolling. It would, however, be another very good reason to ban someone if you don't want a racist atmosphere to develop here. If someone manages to get a lot of pro-racism discussion going, regardless of whether it makes any sense or not, you will literally attract more racists and fewer people who are turned off by racism and it will snowball. FTL would become another Stormfront forum.
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FWIW, I'd consider "pro-racism" advocacy trolling, because it's a form of collectivism and inconsistent with liberty.
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FWIW, I'd consider "pro-racism" advocacy trolling, because it's a form of collectivism and inconsistent with liberty.
Trolling is a subset of the set "bad things". Just because something is arguably bad does not make it trolling. Killing people is arguably bad and inconsistent with liberty, but it is definitely not trolling.
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I will add this, though. Someone who says racist stuph just to stir up shit and maybe doesn't even believe it, or does believe it but knows the conversation isn't going anywhere, THAT's trolling.
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FWIW, I'd consider "pro-racism" advocacy trolling, because it's a form of collectivism and inconsistent with liberty.
Trolling is a subset of the set "bad things". Just because something is arguably bad does not make it trolling. Killing people is arguably bad and inconsistent with liberty, but it is definitely not trolling.
I will add this, though. Someone who says racist stuph just to stir up shit and maybe doesn't even believe it, or does believe it but knows the conversation isn't going anywhere, THAT's trolling.
Well, pushing a clearly illibertarian idea on a liberty-oriented message system (perhaps, beyond the first rejection, and additionally against the TOS), I'd still call trolling. It's sorta like sexual harassment--if someone tells you once they don't want your advances, that's supposed to be enough. Beyond that, it's seemingly obvious. It'd be one thing if you "had no way to know." Racists never had that excuse here.
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I too am eager to put these issues to a rest.
That is why I have asked multiple times for anyone here to point out one single piece of text anywhere in this forum that I have said something racist. Perhaps you can, Dale, since you said I argue "for racism".
There are what.. 6 or 7 of you openly calling me out as a racist yet not one of you can back up the claim, and I'm the one who's being called a troll?
Perhaps this is a new form of multidimensional logic that I am unfamiliar with.
Thank you, blackie, for the nod.
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I'm not a mod, but I can say for sure that you're not a Racist! the rest is just argument for the sake of argument.
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Thanks Fred. You've just sealed your fate on the BBS with that comment though. Not that you haven't already experienced a touch of the bias.
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I too am eager to put these issues to a rest.
That is why I have asked multiple times for anyone here to point out one single piece of text anywhere in this forum that I have said something racist. Perhaps you can, Dale, since you said I argue "for racism".
There are what.. 6 or 7 of you openly calling me out as a racist yet not one of you can back up the claim, and I'm the one who's being called a troll?
Perhaps this is a new form of multidimensional logic that I am unfamiliar with.
Thank you, blackie, for the nod.
Were it a year ago, before the big purge, I might be interested in doing your library work for you, searching out every infraction, but I do recall that you and dragline and another person had a great deal of fun over an extended time, turning many issues into racism. I'll let you know next time. It's a matter of fact that I bit my lip, figuratively speaking, over much of that time. In the past, particularly when it was stated policy, I reported such posts.
Right off the top--most of these alone don't scream "racist," but the preponderance (and there are potentially dozens more) does:
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/the-show/the-race-show-10-5-09/msg568427/#msg568427 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/the-show/the-race-show-10-5-09/msg568427/#msg568427)
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/chimpin'-out-in-ct/msg608221/#msg608221 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/chimpin'-out-in-ct/msg608221/#msg608221)
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/why-isn't-this-sort-of-event-covered-by-the-msm/msg629978/#msg629978 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/why-isn't-this-sort-of-event-covered-by-the-msm/msg629978/#msg629978) note the edit
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/why-isn't-this-sort-of-event-covered-by-the-msm/msg630039/#msg630039 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/why-isn't-this-sort-of-event-covered-by-the-msm/msg630039/#msg630039)
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/why-isn't-this-sort-of-event-covered-by-the-msm/msg630118/#msg630118 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/why-isn't-this-sort-of-event-covered-by-the-msm/msg630118/#msg630118)
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/why-isn't-this-sort-of-event-covered-by-the-msm/msg630197/#msg630197 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/why-isn't-this-sort-of-event-covered-by-the-msm/msg630197/#msg630197)
From my near daily drives through the ghetto you're analysis of fat white girls who like to gobble down black dicks is precise. I have seen some thin white girls with black dudes too, but they have the appearance of being on a Meth diet. It's totally a win win situation as the black guy gets a social promotion and the white girl gets to pretend that she's truly cherished by a man.
The only women I know personally who have fucked black guys all seem a little screwed up. But I'll admit it - I'm a separatist. I do not mix with upper class people. So I don't personally know any white women who are attractive, wealthy, well balanced and somehow have just met the perfect black guy to settle down with.
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/possible-celebrity-for-the-fsp/msg588632/#msg588632 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/possible-celebrity-for-the-fsp/msg588632/#msg588632)
Neither character scores very high on the scale of blackness, no matter how funky that monkey dances.
If black culture were represented in a more realistic way such as that visit to prison, then people may be able to deal with the topic of race in a more realistic way... as opposed to what's predominantly done now, which is to have a black cartoon character who's blackness ends in it's coloring.
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/the-question-thread/msg630120/#msg630120 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/the-question-thread/msg630120/#msg630120)
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/tough-guys-only-in-this-thread/msg569925/#msg569925 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/tough-guys-only-in-this-thread/msg569925/#msg569925)
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/muslims-slaughter-a-bunch-of-christians-(mostly-women-children)what-a-shocker/msg593176/#msg593176 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/muslims-slaughter-a-bunch-of-christians-(mostly-women-children)what-a-shocker/msg593176/#msg593176)
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/muslims-slaughter-a-bunch-of-christians-(mostly-women-children)what-a-shocker/msg593292/#msg593292 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/muslims-slaughter-a-bunch-of-christians-(mostly-women-children)what-a-shocker/msg593292/#msg593292)
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/muslims-slaughter-a-bunch-of-christians-(mostly-women-children)what-a-shocker/msg594311/#msg594311 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/muslims-slaughter-a-bunch-of-christians-(mostly-women-children)what-a-shocker/msg594311/#msg594311)
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/muslims-slaughter-a-bunch-of-christians-(mostly-women-children)what-a-shocker/msg594600/#msg594600 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/muslims-slaughter-a-bunch-of-christians-(mostly-women-children)what-a-shocker/msg594600/#msg594600)
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/muslims-slaughter-a-bunch-of-christians-(mostly-women-children)what-a-shocker/msg594676/#msg594676 (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/general/muslims-slaughter-a-bunch-of-christians-(mostly-women-children)what-a-shocker/msg594676/#msg594676)
Pretty much that whole thread is repulsive, suggesting that there are violent ethnicities and less violent ones.
You might be racist if.. you deny that black folks in particular aren't dealing with a certain brand of violence within ghetto communities daily... doled out to them by other black folks.
I'm sure there's lots more, in lots of other threads, but I'm not going to waste any more of my time going over what's obviously true.
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oh shit! ???
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Perhaps you can, Dale, since you said I argue "for racism".
Oh yeah? Quote me where I said that. I'll save you the trouble. My post speaks purely in hypotheticals. I even pointed that out explicitly for the slower people.
If he's a sincere racist (which I realize he claims not to be and I'm not arguing it right now), then that could even be evidence that he's not a troll. If his motivations, for instance, were to argue for racism intellectually and not just to stir up shit, then that's not trolling. It would, however, be another very good reason to ban someone if you don't want a racist atmosphere to develop here.
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Thank you for the wonderful trip down memory lane WTFK. I encourage everyone to click and read all the links Ken was kind enough to post, as it should reduce the accusations.
My favorite one is this:
The only women I know personally who have fucked black guys all seem a little screwed up. But I'll admit it - I'm a separatist. I do not mix with upper class people. So I don't personally know any white women who are attractive, wealthy, well balanced and somehow have just met the perfect black guy to settle down with.
Sooo.. where's the racist part? I do not hate black people. No where in those threads or posts have I said I hate black people... or any other ethnic group.
Have I said something unpopular? You bet. That doesn't make it wrong.
Have I said something that Bill Cosby has also said? And TMONT (on YouTube)? You bet. Those black guys have their shit straight. Get this: I like those guys. I like the big black mama from Jamaica that hugs my kids when we eat at her shop regularly (a shop that was robbed, by a few black guys, recently). When I worked with a black supremacist a few years ago, I liked him and liked our open discussions on race. etc.
The use of the term "Chimpout" is a prime example of the problem I point out in many posts. Rather than become upset at the actual crimes being committed by groups of black folks, people become enraged over a term used to describe the attackers. That is fucked. up.
The football player who killed dogs... Complete outrage over it. One athlete, half dozen dogs deserves passionate rage.
Statistics indicate that black men are responsible for the majority of rapes and murder -- against all ethnic groups and including blacks too -- but apparently that's no big deal. Dead dogs, rage. Kill the fucker. Dead and/or raped humans.. social programs. Be nice. Poverty.
Whatevah gets you to sleep at night, I guess.
You expect me to address people acting savagely in a respectful way? Not gonna happen. I'm focusing on the realities of what's going on as opposed to a whitewashed (so to speak) vision of glorified diversity.
Crime in ghettos is at epidemic levels. No amount of white guilt, compassion or social programs is ever going to change that. But rational, direct, open discussion just might.
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Perhaps you can, Dale, since you said I argue "for racism".
Oh yeah? Quote me where I said that. I'll save you the trouble. My post speaks purely in hypotheticals. I even pointed that out explicitly for the slower people.
If he's a sincere racist (which I realize he claims not to be and I'm not arguing it right now), then that could even be evidence that he's not a troll. If his motivations, for instance, were to argue for racism intellectually and not just to stir up shit, then that's not trolling. It would, however, be another very good reason to ban someone if you don't want a racist atmosphere to develop here.
I am totally wrong in this, and don't mind saying so. Sorry about that.
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Thank you for the wonderful trip down memory lane WTFK. I encourage everyone to click and read all the links Ken was kind enough to post, as it should reduce the accusations.
My favorite one is this:
The only women I know personally who have fucked black guys all seem a little screwed up. But I'll admit it - I'm a separatist. I do not mix with upper class people. So I don't personally know any white women who are attractive, wealthy, well balanced and somehow have just met the perfect black guy to settle down with.
Sooo.. where's the racist part? I do not hate black people. No where in those threads or posts have I said I hate black people... or any other ethnic group.
Have I said something unpopular? You bet. That doesn't make it wrong.
Have I said something that Bill Cosby has also said? And TMONT (on YouTube)? You bet. Those black guys have their shit straight. Get this: I like those guys. I like the big black mama from Jamaica that hugs my kids when we eat at her shop regularly (a shop that was robbed, by a few black guys, recently). When I worked with a black supremacist a few years ago, I liked him and liked our open discussions on race. etc.
The use of the term "Chimpout" is a prime example of the problem I point out in many posts. Rather than become upset at the actual crimes being committed by groups of black folks, people become enraged over a term used to describe the attackers. That is fucked. up.
The football player who killed dogs... Complete outrage over it. One athlete, half dozen dogs deserves passionate rage.
Statistics indicate that black men are responsible for the majority of rapes and murder -- against all ethnic groups and including blacks too -- but apparently that's no big deal. Dead dogs, rage. Kill the fucker. Dead and/or raped humans.. social programs. Be nice. Poverty.
Whatevah gets you to sleep at night, I guess.
You expect me to address people acting savagely in a respectful way? Not gonna happen. I'm focusing on the realities of what's going on as opposed to a whitewashed (so to speak) vision of glorified diversity.
Crime in ghettos is at epidemic levels. No amount of white guilt, compassion or social programs is ever going to change that. But rational, direct, open discussion just might.
Rationalize all you want--it's all out there--you sometimes choose your words carefully, as in the one sample you chose, and others not. Your long history makes it obvious what you are.
By the way, this was the whole quote:
From my near daily drives through the ghetto you're analysis of fat white girls who like to gobble down black dicks is precise. I have seen some thin white girls with black dudes too, but they have the appearance of being on a Meth diet. It's totally a win win situation as the black guy gets a social promotion and the white girl gets to pretend that she's truly cherished by a man.
The only women I know personally who have fucked black guys all seem a little screwed up. But I'll admit it - I'm a separatist. I do not mix with upper class people. So I don't personally know any white women who are attractive, wealthy, well balanced and somehow have just met the perfect black guy to settle down with.
Gee...looks like you left the interesting parts out.
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I don't mean to hijack the thread or anything, but WTFK's liks to my posts was pretty cool. I decided to go through and copy and paste em and found this gem in the bunch:
Now... how the fuck can anyone possibly stretch this into a racist post?
Apparently all I could ever say to defend myself form this shit was said a long time ago - whenever the post below was written. If that didn't clear it away nothing I'll ever say can.
Haters gonna hate.
Nah..I think you may have misread whatever I wrote.. I've only been to stormfront a half dozen times or so, most of those just as a result of clicking a link. What I took from the first visit was all I needed- that it basically comes down to the members there having an in-house "I Am Whiter Than You, I Am More Racially Pure Than You." contest. That and "Onward Christian-Anglo Soldiers.", "Hitler Was Awesome." etc. I'll pass on that stuff.
The point was that because no one talks freely about the extremely valid topic of violent black folk, the only places you'll find it being freely discussed is on sites like stormfront. That suits most people just fine, as they prefer to avoid those pesky details in favor of preserving their fantasy that they reside in a Rainbow Colored Happyland. So, moderately concerned people may 1) get sucked in to the whole White Supremacy movement, or 2)they may be made to feel so ashamed due to peer pressure that they go all ballzout and deny that the problem exists. Either outcome does nothing to solve the problem.
Be frank about all this shit, find a way to get it sorted. Or, hide the pesky details and keep pretending that there's nothing to be concerned about.. (meanwhile innocent people will continue to be blown to bits, and crime from ghetto shitheads will continue to take the lives of people both in and outside the ghettos.. but at least we were polite enough not to discuss those things!).
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Haters gonna hate.
Yes you will.
Nah..I think you may have misread whatever I wrote.. I've only been to stormfront a half dozen times or so, most of those just as a result of clicking a link. What I took from the first visit was all I needed- that it basically comes down to the members there having an in-house "I Am Whiter Than You, I Am More Racially Pure Than You." contest. That and "Onward Christian-Anglo Soldiers.", "Hitler Was Awesome." etc. I'll pass on that stuff.
The point was that because no one talks freely about the extremely valid topic of violent black folk, the only places you'll find it being freely discussed is on sites like stormfront. That suits most people just fine, as they prefer to avoid those pesky details in favor of preserving their fantasy that they reside in a Rainbow Colored Happyland. So, moderately concerned people may 1) get sucked in to the whole White Supremacy movement, or 2)they may be made to feel so ashamed due to peer pressure that they go all ballzout and deny that the problem exists. Either outcome does nothing to solve the problem.
Be frank about all this shit, find a way to get it sorted. Or, hide the pesky details and keep pretending that there's nothing to be concerned about.. (meanwhile innocent people will continue to be blown to bits, and crime from ghetto shitheads will continue to take the lives of people both in and outside the ghettos.. but at least we were polite enough not to discuss those things!).
A very longwinded way of saying "Black criminals are going to destroy civilization if we don't do something about it, and only us racists give a shit."
...and I'll remind everyone he chose the link...out of several...
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Rationalize all you want--it's all out there--you sometimes choose your words carefully, as in the one sample you chose, and others not. Your long history makes it obvious what you are.
By the way, this was the whole quote:
From my near daily drives through the ghetto you're analysis of fat white girls who like to gobble down black dicks is precise. I have seen some thin white girls with black dudes too, but they have the appearance of being on a Meth diet. It's totally a win win situation as the black guy gets a social promotion and the white girl gets to pretend that she's truly cherished by a man.
The only women I know personally who have fucked black guys all seem a little screwed up. But I'll admit it - I'm a separatist. I do not mix with upper class people. So I don't personally know any white women who are attractive, wealthy, well balanced and somehow have just met the perfect black guy to settle down with.
Gee...looks like you left the interesting parts out.
Ken.. have you been to the ghetto lately? Ever?
This is an apt description of life for many dysfunctional and black/white couples whom reside in the ghetto.
It's true that I do not know any well adjusted black/white couples. Interracial couples, yes. A dozen or more. Black/white - none.
How many well adjusted black/white couples do you know of? Personally, not celebrity, etc.
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Rationalize all you want--it's all out there--you sometimes choose your words carefully, as in the one sample you chose, and others not. Your long history makes it obvious what you are.
By the way, this was the whole quote:
From my near daily drives through the ghetto you're analysis of fat white girls who like to gobble down black dicks is precise. I have seen some thin white girls with black dudes too, but they have the appearance of being on a Meth diet. It's totally a win win situation as the black guy gets a social promotion and the white girl gets to pretend that she's truly cherished by a man.
The only women I know personally who have fucked black guys all seem a little screwed up. But I'll admit it - I'm a separatist. I do not mix with upper class people. So I don't personally know any white women who are attractive, wealthy, well balanced and somehow have just met the perfect black guy to settle down with.
Gee...looks like you left the interesting parts out.
Ken.. have you been to the ghetto lately? Ever?
This is an apt description of life for many dysfunctional and black/white couples whom reside in the ghetto.
It's true that I do not know any well adjusted black/white couples. Interracial couples, yes. A dozen or more. Black/white - none.
How many well adjusted black/white couples do you know of? Personally, not celebrity, etc.
You're bringing race into it...why? Ever been to a nice neighborhood with "people of color" in it? Ever been to a bad neighborhood with just white people? They exist.
FWIW, I've been part of an "interracial couple." I am now. I don't live in a ghetto. My neighbors used to be black. They didn't burn their house down or anyone else's. They didn't steal shit from me, either.
The bigot doesn't know it's a bigot.
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I know that this is your big moment to fit in Ken. Best of luck to you.
There's just that pesky detail of "proof" to clear away and then you'll receive a nice warm embrace, I'm sure.
And, if I may, I will remind everyone that these links were searched out by W2FitIn Ken. All of the links he presented should be scrutinized for any shred of racism.
You will find a whole lot of racial insensitivity. You will find a lot of elitism.
You will not find racism. You will not find apologies.
Haters gonna hate.
Yes you will.
Nah..I think you may have misread whatever I wrote.. I've only been to stormfront a half dozen times or so, most of those just as a result of clicking a link. What I took from the first visit was all I needed- that it basically comes down to the members there having an in-house "I Am Whiter Than You, I Am More Racially Pure Than You." contest. That and "Onward Christian-Anglo Soldiers.", "Hitler Was Awesome." etc. I'll pass on that stuff.
The point was that because no one talks freely about the extremely valid topic of violent black folk, the only places you'll find it being freely discussed is on sites like stormfront. That suits most people just fine, as they prefer to avoid those pesky details in favor of preserving their fantasy that they reside in a Rainbow Colored Happyland. So, moderately concerned people may 1) get sucked in to the whole White Supremacy movement, or 2)they may be made to feel so ashamed due to peer pressure that they go all ballzout and deny that the problem exists. Either outcome does nothing to solve the problem.
Be frank about all this shit, find a way to get it sorted. Or, hide the pesky details and keep pretending that there's nothing to be concerned about.. (meanwhile innocent people will continue to be blown to bits, and crime from ghetto shitheads will continue to take the lives of people both in and outside the ghettos.. but at least we were polite enough not to discuss those things!).
A very longwinded way of saying "Black criminals are going to destroy civilization if we don't do something about it, and only us racists give a shit."
...and I'll remind everyone he chose the link...out of several...
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It's out there...only a fraction of your bigotry. Everyone can see it. By the way, it doesn't have anything to do with "fitting in." It has to do with you pretending you're not a bigot.
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You're bringing race into it...why? Ever been to a nice neighborhood with "people of color" in it? Ever been to a bad neighborhood with just white people? They exist.
FWIW, I've been part of an "interracial couple." I am now. I don't live in a ghetto. My neighbors used to be black. They didn't burn their house down or anyone else's. They didn't steal shit from me, either.
The bigot doesn't know it's a bigot.
Yes I know your wife is Asian. I know because you were teased about it here on the BBS. I wasn't one of those who teased you.
Yes. I have black neighbors. We work together to keep the ghetto from creeping our way. They help with the neighborhood watch. Their kids ride my kid's scooter sometimes. Imagine that.
You are branching away from the topic now and I don't have the time for it. That is why I am trying to form sentences in a robot-like way. To keep everything clear and simple for you.
I can not keep up with this frequency in posting. But i just noticed another post from you.
In it, you say "It's out there...only a fraction of your bigotry." I encourage you to find it and bring it to light. I thought that was your intent in harvesting all those links. I was wrong, apparently.
I will respond to you when you have clear words from me that prove I am a racist. Not an elitist, not a culturalist, not racially insensitive. Those three qualities are easily proven and I openly admit I am all three. No apologies for it.
You bring the evidence, we talk. Actually, one better... you bring the evidence, I leave the BBS. Which is only an enticement really as I don't even know why I'm posting here right now.
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A long time ago I created a thread here to give people a dedicated place to prove I'm a racist. Apparently that was so long ago it's been purged from the database.
But another thread came up that I thought was worth mentioning. The first page is most relevant but the other pages aren't bad.
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/rubber-room-for-trolls-not-safe-for-work/an-open-letter-to-sincere/ (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/rubber-room-for-trolls-not-safe-for-work/an-open-letter-to-sincere/)
Click it and read more nasty racist stuff from me.
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*yawn*
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*yawn*
That's not a troll post. No way.
You bring the evidence, we talk. Actually, one better... you bring the evidence, I leave the BBS. Which is only an enticement really as I don't even know why I'm posting here right now.
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WWYD?
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FWIW, I'd consider "pro-racism" advocacy trolling, because it's a form of collectivism and inconsistent with liberty.
Racism itself is not inconsistent with liberty. You can hate white people, never talk to them, never hire them, never contract with them, and write books about how evil they are, and at the same time completely adhere to the NAP.
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*yawn*
That's not a troll post. No way.
You bring the evidence, we talk. Actually, one better... you bring the evidence, I leave the BBS. Which is only an enticement really as I don't even know why I'm posting here right now.
It's "I hear you, troll, and I'm not biting any more." You got piles of evidence. You're posting here right now because you're addicted to the response you got when you trolled.
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FWIW, I'd consider "pro-racism" advocacy trolling, because it's a form of collectivism and inconsistent with liberty.
Racism itself is not inconsistent with liberty. You can hate white people, never talk to them, never hire them, never contract with them, and write books about how evil they are, and at the same time completely adhere to the NAP.
The reason it's inconsistent with liberty is because it's a form of collectivism, which is inconsistent with liberty. When people think in groups, they become less free and they imply that others are and ought to be less free. "What are we going to do today? What are they going to do to us if we do this?" I discovered this while discussing liberty with my uncle, and he recognized the trap he'd set for himself when he joined a specific church congregation. Tying yourself to a community can have this effect.
That's not to say that it's impossible to belong to a collective (see the illibertarian verbiage naturally used when discussing collectives--e.g. "belong?") and be free--it's just harder. Also, collectivism isn't to be confused with free association, because you can associate loosely with others without being part of a collective. I think this desire to loosely associate has been expressed by some in NH, and especially "Free Keene."
In the case of racism, it's the worst kind of collectivism, in which third parties collectivize each other, rather than first parties collectivizing themselves, although that happens too--particularly in prisons and governments and other gangs, and where all sorts of nice people hang out. Note that in these example contexts, people in the collective are virtually always less than free to leave the collective. Frequently, people have to "disappear" to be safe from retaliation for quitting.
Hope that clears up my thinking. I'm pretty serious about it, and I think it's well-thought-out.
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TL;DR version: Voluntarilly-engaged in collectivism is not a violation of rights justifying force in response, but not very conducive to spreading liberty.
I agree. I think we have to advance socially before we will achieve liberty.
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I think that we agree that libertarians can be racists, right? In the sense that it doesn't violate the NAP.
Human beings constantly put people into groups...and that's OK. I've even heard libertarians claim that football is not libertarian because its a collective sport, while boxing is good because its an individual sport. In fact, Ian once said that football "promotes statism" because people say things like, "We won!" Nonsense.
I don't like racism, but not because people are put into groups. Not at all. I don't like racism because people are put into groups for a dumb reason. But that is irrelevant to my being a libertarian.
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I am pretty sure in a free society there would be contractually segregated cities and neighborhoods.
If people were not allowed to have them we wouldn't have a free society. To a lot of voters and people who could be a asset to the liberty movement this could be a selling point.
Sort of like the argument I use to the Anarcho Socialist. "Look in a free society you and a bunch of your little buddies can own land in any collective you wish, so we should be on the same side."
I think they are on a road to ruin but it's no skin off my back. The key is not using force. No voluntary society is incompatible with the NAP. Having a militant "thought police" is though.
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Sort of like the argument I use to the Anarcho Socialist. "Look in a free society you and a bunch of your little buddies can own land in any collective you wish, so we should be on the same side."
I 100% agree.
I've used the same arguments and I think its important to let socialists know that their vision is possible in a libertarian society. They can be as communist as they want. They can share all of their income, their homes, shit...even their husbands and wives if they want. But they cannot violate the NAP.
A libertarian who wants to live in a hippy commune is no less libertarian than one who wants to live 1,000 miles from civilization only using tools he/she created.
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I think that we agree that libertarians can be racists, right? In the sense that it doesn't violate the NAP.
Human beings constantly put people into groups...and that's OK. I've even heard libertarians claim that football is not libertarian because its a collective sport, while boxing is good because its an individual sport. In fact, Ian once said that football "promotes statism" because people say things like, "We won!" Nonsense.
I don't like racism, but not because people are put into groups. Not at all. I don't like racism because people are put into groups for a dumb reason. But that is irrelevant to my being a libertarian.
People can be libertarian and collectivist. It's just odd. It's not associating in deciding they "belong in" groups that makes racism troublesome, though that sorta goes to the odd part. It's collectivizing others into groups that's more troublesome, particularly if you treat them as a member of that group you've assigned them, and even more particularly if you do it without their agreement. Hope that's better.
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Sort of like the argument I use to the Anarcho Socialist. "Look in a free society you and a bunch of your little buddies can own land in any collective you wish, so we should be on the same side."
I 100% agree.
I've used the same arguments and I think its important to let socialists know that their vision is possible in a libertarian society. They can be as communist as they want. They can share all of their income, their homes, shit...even their husbands and wives if they want. But they cannot violate the NAP.
A libertarian who wants to live in a hippy commune is no less libertarian than one who wants to live 1,000 miles from civilization only using tools he/she created.
All true. They're not doing it to other people. They're making their own (odd) choices.
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Libertarianism is a question of what the law should be....nothing else.
Again, a bigoted, white people hating libertarian is no less libertarian than a gay loving, hippy lala libertarian, as long as they abide by the NAP.
Liberty is a one trick pony.
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Libertarianism is a question of what the law should be....nothing else.
I would immediately concede your point on a purely technical basis, but I think our point is about tactics and what sort of cultural shifts seem necessary in order to achieve more liberty.
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Libertarianism is a question of what the law should be....nothing else.
I would immediately concede your point on a purely technical basis, but I think our point is about tactics and what sort of cultural shifts seem necessary in order to achieve more liberty.
No doubt. Its hard to attract people to liberty if we're a bunch of douche bags.