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Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: blackie on April 21, 2009, 01:44:59 PM

Title: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: blackie on April 21, 2009, 01:44:59 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/21/fbi.domestic.terror.suspect/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The FBI for the first time has placed an animal rights activist on the bureau's "Most Wanted Terrorists" list.

 The FBI announced Tuesday the addition of Daniel Andreas San Diego to the list, hoping a burst of international publicity associated with the move will help investigators find him after six years on the run.

San Diego, 31, may appear to be out of place on a terrorist list with familiar names like al Qaeda's Osama bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri and Adam Yahiye Gadahn. The "strict vegan," according to the FBI, is charged with bombing two corporate offices in California in 2003. The blasts caused extensive property damage but no deaths.

Vegans eat no meat or any other food containing animal products.

Authorities allege San Diego bombed facilities in Emeryville and Pleasanton, California, because he believed the Chiron and Shaklee Corporations had ties to animal-testing labs.

The sophisticated homemade bombs had ammonium nitrate brand explosives and relied on "kitchen timer style mechanical timer devices," according to an FBI affidavit.

After both bombings, e-mails from a group called "The Revolutionary Cells-Liberation Brigade" claimed responsibility for the acts.

Photographs of San Diego, who grew up in suburban San Francisco, California, show a well-groomed, bespectacled man.

But the computer network specialist also sports several elaborate tattoos. According to an artist's rendering of the body art, San Diego has one in the center of his chest of a burning hillside and the words "It only takes a spark" in a typewriter-style font.

An abdominal tattoo shows burning and collapsing buildings, while his back features a leafless tree rising from a road above buildings that are burning but still standing, the FBI says.

Last year, agents pursued reports that San Diego was hiding in Costa Rica. They also received a report he was spotted in rural southern Virginia.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: blackie on April 21, 2009, 02:51:13 PM
I wonder what the difference is between a vegan and a strict vegan.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Alex Libman on April 21, 2009, 03:40:27 PM
For once the government is doing something useful.  The only problem here is monopoly of law enforcement.  In a free society, there would be multiple organizations competing to catch the motherfucker, to (confirming that he's guilty) force him to pay restitution and show that he has reformed.

Also, the FBI should put them SPCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_the_Prevention_of_Cruelty_to_Animals) horse thieves (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=27932.0) on that list as well!  :x


I wonder what the difference is between a vegan and a strict vegan.

Most people who claim to be vegans make occasional exceptions, especially when eating out.  Interpretations of vegan requirements can get very strict, possibly including that the kitchen where the food is cooked should be entirely free of meat products (lest a microscopic quantity of them should transfer), farm where the food is grown must not keep any livestock (possibly including bees for pollination), etc.  I guess the "strict" vegans go farther than most.

All this is very irrational, IMHO, but gastronomy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastronomy) is subjective.  There is nothing wrong with doing irrational things in your own life that make you happy.  The lives of others, however, are a different matter.  Failure to respect human rights (including their ownership of animals, which are absolute property) is definitely a crime.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Dylboz on April 21, 2009, 04:10:11 PM
I wonder if the guy lives in buildings, or if he's too busy burning them down. He clearly has it out for structures.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: blackie on April 21, 2009, 06:32:53 PM
Quote
The sophisticated homemade bombs had ammonium nitrate brand explosives and relied on "kitchen timer style mechanical timer devices," according to an FBI affidavit.
Is there a new definition of "sophisticated" I don't know about?

Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: NHArticleTen on April 21, 2009, 07:00:07 PM
Quote
The sophisticated homemade bombs had ammonium nitrate brand explosives and relied on "kitchen timer style mechanical timer devices," according to an FBI affidavit.
Is there a new definition of "sophisticated" I don't know about?


they should have just used:

supercalafragalisticexpealadotious

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=supercalafragalisticexpealadotious

Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: NHArticleTen on April 21, 2009, 07:01:51 PM

Also, the FBI should put them SPCA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_the_Prevention_of_Cruelty_to_Animals) horse thieves (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=27932.0) on that list as well!  :x

Failure to respect human rights (including their ownership of animals, which are absolute property) is definitely a crime.


seconded

Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Alex Libman on April 21, 2009, 07:22:40 PM
Is there a new definition of "sophisticated" I don't know about?

Uncle Sam Wants You!

...to think all bombs are sophisticated...  :roll:

(Unless you work for them of course.)
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: blackie on April 21, 2009, 09:14:45 PM
Failure to respect human rights (including their ownership of animals, which are absolute property) is definitely a crime.
That's fine, but most of the "eco-terrorists" are not terrorists. They are saboteurs.

Quote
saboteur (plural saboteurs)

   1. A person who intentionally causes the destruction of property in order to hinder the efforts of his/her enemy.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on April 21, 2009, 09:23:39 PM
Failure to respect human rights (including their ownership of animals, which are absolute property) is definitely a crime.
That's fine, but most of the "eco-terrorists" are not terrorists. They are saboteurs.

Quote
saboteur (plural saboteurs)

   1. A person who intentionally causes the destruction of property in order to hinder the efforts of his/her enemy.

While not all saboteurs are terrorists, I do think that causing large explosions in public areas is pretty easily equated with terrorism.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: blackie on April 21, 2009, 09:26:09 PM
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/tersandiego_da.htm

Scars and Marks:     San Diego has the following tattoos: a round image of burning hillsides in the center of his chest with the words "It only takes a spark" printed in a semicircle below; burning and collapsing buildings on the sides of his abdomen and back; and a single leafless tree rising from a road in the center of his lower back. These tattoos may have been significantly altered or covered with new tattoos.

Remarks:    San Diego has ties to animal rights extremist groups. He is known to follow a vegan diet, eating no meat or food containing animal products. In the past, he has worked as a computer network specialist and with the operating system LINUX. San Diego wears eyeglasses, is skilled at sailing, and has traveled internationally. He is known to possess a handgun.

CAUTION

Daniel Andreas San Diego is wanted for his alleged involvement in the bombing of two office buildings in the San Francisco, California, area. On August 28, 2003, two bombs exploded approximately one hour apart at the Chiron Corporation in Emeryville. Then, on September 26, 2003, one bomb strapped with nails exploded at the Shaklee Corporation in Pleasanton. San Diego was indicted in the United States District Court, Northern District of California, in July of 2004.

The FBI is offering a reward of up to $250,000 for information leading directly to the arrest of Daniel Andreas San Diego.

SHOULD BE CONSIDERED ARMED AND DANGEROUS

IF YOU HAVE ANY INFORMATION CONCERNING THIS PERSON, PLEASE CONTACT YOUR LOCAL FBI OFFICE OR THE NEAREST AMERICAN EMBASSY OR CONSULATE.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Bill Brasky on April 21, 2009, 09:35:16 PM

I'll keep a sharp eye out for him, Sarge!

Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: blackie on April 21, 2009, 09:38:04 PM
I'll keep a sharp eye out for him, Sarge!
$250,000


FBI search inventory (http://www.animalscam.com/references/andreas_search1.cfm)
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Alex Libman on April 21, 2009, 09:40:24 PM
That's fine, but most of the "eco-terrorists" are not terrorists. They are saboteurs.

I think of sabotage as hindering a specific effort directly, traditionally it meant getting back at your boss for paying you a fair (market-based) wage by shutting down his production line, one wooden shoe at a time.  This race traitor isn't organizing an effort to blow up all human institutions that utilize animals, the highest goal he can achieve is scare some people into abandoning use of animals by making it too costly / too risky - the very definition of terrorism!

Plus who's to say irrational people like that can effectively limit themselves to just destruction of property, and not commit murder?  And besides, the two are inter-related: by diminishing capital you also diminish life.  Human beings used to dwell in caves and rarely live past 30.  It is our material advances that allow us to live longer, and provide hope of living much longer still.  You hear slogans like "crystal meth kills", but in reality what it does is it lowers your life expectancy - theft is no different.  Furthermore, there are few human activities essential to advancing biology and medicine that do not utilize animals in some way. 

PETA is probably already responsible for a greater loss of human life than the Nazis!  (Who, by the way, were also big fans of animal rights (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_rights#1933:_Tierschutzgesetz).)

Anyone who defends "animal rights", no matter if their violence is through bombs or through government regulations, is an enemy of the human civilization!  It is our moral imperative to stop them!
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: blackie on April 21, 2009, 10:00:56 PM
Quote
Plus who's to say irrational people like that can effectively limit themselves to just destruction of property, and not commit murder?  
Have they killed anyone yet?
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on April 21, 2009, 10:10:02 PM
Quote
Plus who's to say irrational people like that can effectively limit themselves to just destruction of property, and not commit murder?  
Have they killed anyone yet?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-trull18-2008aug18,0,1625747.story

They certainly have tried.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Alex Libman on April 21, 2009, 10:14:54 PM
Have they killed anyone yet?

Further in my previous post I make the case that they kill billions of human beings - by discouraging the development of medical advances that could have added years to their lives.  Taking away grandma's ability to breathe is clearly murder (i.e. strangulation or drowning).  What about taking away her ability (negative right) to drink, to eat, or to take her life-saving medicine?

Social changes have exponential effect over time - some cause value to the human civilizations, while some cause harm.  The harm of killing X people is finite, while harm of the "animal rights" insanity, as enforced by government regulations, is on-going.  And government regulations is exactly what they're fighting for.  And we know governments kill, in both indirect as well as very direct ways.

You may not be able to convict any individual "animal rights" nut of murder, but to say that their movement isn't murderous to humans is ridiculous.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: blackie on April 21, 2009, 10:16:16 PM
Quote
Plus who's to say irrational people like that can effectively limit themselves to just destruction of property, and not commit murder?  
Have they killed anyone yet?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-trull18-2008aug18,0,1625747.story

They certainly have tried.
Pull some quotes, cus I didn't read anything in that article that sounded like they tried to kill someone.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on April 21, 2009, 10:25:01 PM
Quote
Plus who's to say irrational people like that can effectively limit themselves to just destruction of property, and not commit murder?  
Have they killed anyone yet?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-trull18-2008aug18,0,1625747.story

They certainly have tried.
Pull some quotes, cus I didn't read anything in that article that sounded like they tried to kill someone.
They firebombed a number of researchers houses, and made a mistake that firebombed the wrong guy's house.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: blackie on April 21, 2009, 10:30:10 PM
Quote
Plus who's to say irrational people like that can effectively limit themselves to just destruction of property, and not commit murder?  
Have they killed anyone yet?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-trull18-2008aug18,0,1625747.story

They certainly have tried.
Pull some quotes, cus I didn't read anything in that article that sounded like they tried to kill someone.
They firebombed a number of researchers houses, and made a mistake that firebombed the wrong guy's house.
It doesn't say if anyone was home. Trying to burn down a house does not mean you are trying to kill someone.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: NHArticleTen on April 22, 2009, 11:05:01 AM
Quote
Plus who's to say irrational people like that can effectively limit themselves to just destruction of property, and not commit murder?  
Have they killed anyone yet?
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-trull18-2008aug18,0,1625747.story

They certainly have tried.
Pull some quotes, cus I didn't read anything in that article that sounded like they tried to kill someone.
They firebombed a number of researchers houses, and made a mistake that firebombed the wrong guy's house.
It doesn't say if anyone was home. Trying to burn down a house does not mean you are trying to kill someone.

cause they knocked to see if anyone was home or in the shower before they threw the cocktails in....

you firebomb my home...regardless of whether or not I'm actually in it...

hmmm....

Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: NuroSlam on April 22, 2009, 11:53:30 AM
LINUX is terrorism
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: NHArticleTen on April 22, 2009, 12:31:41 PM
LINUX is terrorism

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/College-Police-Target-Linux-User-Bloggers-Up-in-Arms-66843.html

Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Alex Libman on April 22, 2009, 01:26:38 PM
LINUX is terrorism

No, it isn't.  (Well, it is backed by government force (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=28400.0), more so than BSD but less than commercial software, but that isn't the context here.)

Linux doesn't destroy value through violence, it offers a market-based alternative.  It is inevitable that in some situations high supply will drive prices to the lowest point market will bare.  Since there are enough programmers willing to contribute for free, that ends up being the price at which most Linux components and distributions are available.  The reason why everyone doesn't use free software 100% is because some market entities offer a competitive advantage that isn't free.  (Yaay Microsoft! (http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=28047.0))

In the context of "animal rights", this would be equivalent to people offering themselves at a lower cost / higher value than the cost of using animals for scientific experiments, meat, clothing, and so on.  As long as it's consensual, then it's not a problem.  I would totally not buy a new jacket made from animal leather if I could have one made from some "animal rights" nut's skin instead!  :lol:
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: NuroSlam on April 22, 2009, 10:29:15 PM
http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/tersandiego_da.htm
Remarks:    San Diego has ties to animal rights extremist groups. He is known to follow a vegan diet, eating no meat or food containing animal products. In the past, he has worked as a computer network specialist and with the operating system LINUX. San Diego wears eyeglasses, is skilled at sailing, and has traveled internationally. He is known to possess a handgun.

don't make me repeat myself, i dont like repeating myself libman,

LINUX is terrorism
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Alex Libman on April 22, 2009, 10:58:55 PM
You might as well have said "COMPUTER NETWORKING is terrorism" or "WEARING EYEGLASSES is terrorism" or "SAILING is terrorism", etc.   :roll:
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: NuroSlam on April 23, 2009, 09:40:44 AM
You might as well have said "COMPUTER NETWORKING is terrorism" or "WEARING EYEGLASSES is terrorism" or "SAILING is terrorism", etc.   :roll:



Don't you have some spaghetti code to slosh together?
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: Alex Libman on April 23, 2009, 12:25:47 PM
My code mostly resembles sushi, and, yeah, I do.  Every second I waste on this stupid BBS is a second I should have been coding instead.  This would have resulted in me making more money, and allowed me to donate thousands more a month to a libertarian cause.  Sadly for some, I don't do the things that I "should" do from any external criterion, I do things that I "want" to do.  I choose to sacrifice my potential income, my material wealth, and possibly my ability to be more objectively useful to the libertarian cause, for time spent developing my ideas (that no one else seems to appreciate), and otherwise enjoying myself here.  It's my choice to make.
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: blackie on April 27, 2009, 12:53:30 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Andreas_San_Diego

Quote
The FBI believes that the bombing targets were chosen because they were both clients of Huntington Life Science, a company that performed drug and chemical research experiments on animals.[5] The agency had San Diego under 24 hour surveillance in 2003.[9] However, he discovered that he was being watched. On October 6, 2003 he parked his car in downtown San Francisco, California, walked away, and never returned.

(http://media.amw.com/multimedia/fileRepository/db/472/90/surveillance_cte.jpg)

(http://media.amw.com/multimedia/fileRepository/db/472/90/explosion_cte.jpg)

The bomb had 10 pounds of ammonium nitrate.

The FBI affidavit (http://www.animalscam.com/references/andreas_affidavit.cfm?page=1)

 
Title: Re: Animal rights activist on FBI's 'Most Wanted Terrorists' list
Post by: blackie on April 27, 2009, 05:29:50 PM
Is there a new definition of "sophisticated" I don't know about?

Uncle Sam Wants You!

...to think all bombs are sophisticated...  :roll:

(Unless you work for them of course.)

The bombs had redundant timers, so maybe they were more sophisticated than your typical home made bomb.