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JetlagQ

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2006, 10:47:03 PM »


9 Publishing articles to gain support for their views and to agitate the populus against the government.
9 confiscating and burning the stamp paper.
5 Infiltrating law enforcement and militia.
9 making public declarations of intent to disobey.
5 refusing to collect the tax.
8 beheading and burning government officials publicly in effigy.
7 destroying the homes of government officials.
8 threatening tax collectors to the point where they resigned their posts or refused to collect the taxes.
8 reducing the authority and safety of the royal governors so much that many were forced into hiding.

Might seem odd that i'm more willing to kill them than to destroy homes, but once you've put the "fear of god" in the politicians' collective heads, it becomes less and less troubling for me. Thus, i'd be more likely to skin and quarter them because, well, how many politicians are going to wanna piss you off after that?

My system is probably opposite of most. I'd be less likely to challenge authority than I would be to just shoot it. Civil disobedience just amounts to annoying those in power, and telling them who to go after first.

As we know from the government the threat of force is useless unless credible. That said, it is important to understand that any sort of general violence or anything that is not perceived by the general population as just will earn you the reputation of a madman. Pro-freedom movements learned long ago that such acts only galvanize the public against them.  To succeed it is important that we maintain the moral high ground. This doesnt mean we should be victims or not defend ourselves or not commit acts of social disobedience - it just means that if we want to get people on our side, we need to make sure that they are afraid of the government, not us.
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JetlagQ

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2006, 10:58:24 PM »

So on a scale of 1-9, how far would each of you go?
And, how would you answer your question?

Sad to say right now I'd probably only go up to about 6. I'm not sure if anything more would have public support yet. If we don't have some general support or sympathy and can't generate it, we should probably either move to NH and then secede or just leave the country altogether. Anything else would be a losing battle. It would mean that the rest of the USA doesnt want to be free and no amount of fighting will change that.

Each individual needs to be clear on their motives - a desparate attempt to protect their personal property and liberty - or the start of of a revolution.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2006, 11:17:00 PM by JetlagQ »
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fourthgeek

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2006, 11:15:34 PM »

I just mean to say that i'm willing to do the "small stuff" and the "big stuff" - middle ground is much more difficult for me. I would, of course, not do anything violent without good enough cause.
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MobileDigit

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2006, 11:17:02 PM »

Would you kill federal agents if they were trying to capture you?
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Driven

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2006, 11:26:59 PM »

I think it's literally suicide to go and directly confront the government with force at this time. Best to try and play their game for awhile.

Give me liberty, or give me death!
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fourthgeek

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2006, 11:40:08 PM »

Depends on the circumstances.

Of course the government has little to zero legitimacy, but i'm willing to work within the system as long as I think the system is somewhat reasonable to give me a fair chance. If the feds are chasing me down for being a thought criminal, i'm going down in a "blaze of glory". But not always.

For example, I had my first cop encounter last night, and I decided it would be best to work within the system instead of stabbing the guy. Probably a better choice. I'm not in jail nor am i being sought out by the SWAT team, nor was i punished. The guy was a fucking douche though.
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JetlagQ

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #36 on: February 05, 2006, 11:46:41 PM »

Would you kill federal agents if they were trying to capture you?

That would not be my preference. To some extent it depends on the circumstances. Why are they trying to capture me? If I thought I could help show government more for what it is by being arrested, I'd probably let them carry me off.
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Laetitia

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #37 on: February 05, 2006, 11:57:28 PM »

Sad to say right now I'd probably only go up to about 6. I'm not sure if anything more would have public support yet. If we don't have some general support or sympathy and can't generate it, we should probably either move to NH and then secede or just leave the country altogether. Anything else would be a losing battle. It would mean that the rest of the USA doesnt want to be free and no amount of fighting will change that.

Each individual needs to be clear on their motives - a desparate attempt to protect their personal property and liberty - or the start of of a revolution.

Much of the rest of the USA does NOT want to be free. Republicrats agree with freedom either economic OR social/morality issues. Agreeing with principles of liberty on 20% of issues is meaningless if you're willing to use government to enforce the other 80%, whether you're left or right. From what I understand, it was only a very small percentage of colonists who seriously supported the freedom movement that was the American Revolution. So what support or sympathy do you need to see in order to act?

And, if ya'll do decide to move, where would you go if not NH? Which country? Somewhere among the EU nations? Big Brother England? France? The economic freedom index is wonderful, but Singapore and Indonesia execute for drug possession. Australia, NZ & Canada are struggling under massive social programs. Hong Kong has been raising tax rates, and is now subject to China, which is not known for Free Speech.

Is going to another country really better than working for change here?
« Last Edit: February 06, 2006, 12:04:17 AM by joy »
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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2006, 12:01:27 AM »

Would you kill federal agents if they were trying to capture you?
Are we talking about agents who identify themselves as such and hand me the warrant? Because if they're from a secret division of an agency operating without a warrant, how do I know they're arresting me, and not just trying to kill or rob me? What uniforms do the secret police wear?
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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2006, 04:39:48 AM »

Slavery works only because the slaves cooperate with their masters. Working within the "system" is cooperating with your masters.
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lepidoptera

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2006, 09:25:40 AM »

Slavery works only because the slaves cooperate with their masters. Working within the "system" is cooperating with your masters.

The problem is that you need a critical mass of rebels, and it's hard to obtain.  If you don't get the mass, then you're hurting yourself for nothing.
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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2006, 10:39:21 AM »

Slavery works only because the slaves cooperate with their masters. Working within the "system" is cooperating with your masters.

The problem is that you need a critical mass of rebels, and it's hard to obtain.  If you don't get the mass, then you're hurting yourself for nothing.

Would a rape victim just lie there, waiting for a group of people to come to the resuce, and allow their rapist to have their way or would a rape victim fight tooth and nail until the bitter end?

I don't know about this hypothetical rape victim, but I'd prefer to chance death to escape than to live knowing that someone had their way with me and I didn't fight back and allowed it to continue.

I'd be hurting myself more by not taking my own personal initiative for liberty. Like someone previously said: give me liberty or death -- that's what I want. Not live and be raped. Liberty or death.
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BenTucker

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2006, 01:06:18 PM »

Slavery works only because the slaves cooperate with their masters. Working within the "system" is cooperating with your masters.

The problem is that you need a critical mass of rebels, and it's hard to obtain.  If you don't get the mass, then you're hurting yourself for nothing.

that is why the FSP is doomed...they need to be able to incorporate the left libertarians to broaden the movement and I am not talking about social freedom side of the equation.

I am talking about the economic liberty side of the equation...
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TN_FSP

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2006, 01:15:58 PM »

Slavery works only because the slaves cooperate with their masters. Working within the "system" is cooperating with your masters.

The problem is that you need a critical mass of rebels, and it's hard to obtain.  If you don't get the mass, then you're hurting yourself for nothing.

that is why the FSP is doomed...they need to be able to incorporate the left libertarians to broaden the movement and I am not talking about social freedom side of the equation.

I am talking about the economic liberty side of the equation...

What are you talking about?  We should recruit ACLU members?  I've already recruit 2 local ACLU members as Friends of the FSP.  They get monthly newsletters.  Hopefully, they will share with others.  I also talked with a lady from Planned Parenthood in Buffalo and she supported the idea.
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BenTucker

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Re: Activism: how far would you go?
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2006, 01:41:18 PM »

Slavery works only because the slaves cooperate with their masters. Working within the "system" is cooperating with your masters.

The problem is that you need a critical mass of rebels, and it's hard to obtain.  If you don't get the mass, then you're hurting yourself for nothing.

that is why the FSP is doomed...they need to be able to incorporate the left libertarians to broaden the movement and I am not talking about social freedom side of the equation.

I am talking about the economic liberty side of the equation...

What are you talking about?  We should recruit ACLU members?  I've already recruit 2 local ACLU members as Friends of the FSP.  They get monthly newsletters.  Hopefully, they will share with others.  I also talked with a lady from Planned Parenthood in Buffalo and she supported the idea.

no those are from the social freedom side of the equation...I am specifically referring to the individualist anarchist tradition - the mutualists and georgists.
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