Welcome to the Free Talk Live bulletin board system!
This board is closed to new users and new posts.  Thank you to all our great mods and users over the years.  Details here.
185859 Posts in 9829 Topics by 1371 Members
Latest Member: cjt26
Home Help
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  A short analysis of why "rights" discussions fall apart at the seams..
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down

Author Topic: A short analysis of why "rights" discussions fall apart at the seams..  (Read 6702 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

lucidhawk

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile

Natural right philosophers describe the three natural rights as "life","liberty" and "property".
 
As a libertarian; if I put forth that we have the "right" to these what am I saying?
Am I saying that others are required to protect my life, liberty and property? Or that others are required to give me life, liberty and property?
 
No

I'm saying I have the right to have and protect my own life, liberty and property and others have their right to do the same.
SO what is functionally different between these and a "right" to health care?
 
Well actually nothing..

That's the problem.. Conversations break down because the "natural rights" are framed differently than all other rights.
 
Because unless you change the terminology, you do have a right to health care as long as you don't initiate aggression, fraud or theft.
A "right" to health care should be seen and expressed in the same way as the other rights.
Just as you can't ethically say that people are required to give you property because you have a right to property; the same goes for health care no one is required to give you health care.

Thoughts? Counter points?
 
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 04:40:29 AM by lucidhawk »
Logged
"The arguments that were used to perpetuate slavery are identical to the arguments that are used to perpetuate the existence of the state."

BonerJoe

  • Guest

wat
Logged

Turd Ferguson

  • Opportunist Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4085
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/#!/realmikequick

The only "rights" you have are the ones you are willing to defend. If you think you have a right to do something, and a cop or other "authority" figure tells you that you cant do it, and you obey his BS order, that right ceases to exist.

Its as simple as that.

You gotta fight.....BOOM.... BOOM............ for your right ..BOOM ....BOOM BOOM......... to paaaaaartaaay!!! - Beastie Boys
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 11:32:47 AM by quickmike »
Logged
Some peoples idea of hell is having to mind their own business.

Evil Muppet

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5487
    • View Profile

Yes.  Because might makes right.  The only ones with the right are those with power. 
Logged
Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

Turd Ferguson

  • Opportunist Extraordinaire
  • Global Moderator
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4085
    • View Profile
    • https://twitter.com/#!/realmikequick

Thats the reality of it.
Logged
Some peoples idea of hell is having to mind their own business.

Evil Muppet

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 5487
    • View Profile

That's bullshit too. 

That idea is the exact opposite of the very concept of rights. 
Logged
Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb.

Fred

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2099
    • View Profile

You only have a "right" to healthcare if you can afford to pay for it.  Any other way is theft or a gift from someone else.
Logged

Fred

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2099
    • View Profile

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BP5Mb9S4ag&feature=related[/youtube]
Logged

alaric89

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
    • View Profile

I like to say that you only have the right to things you earned. Some like to think entitlements are rights, they ain't.

lucidhawk

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile

I like to say that you only have the right to things you earned. Some like to think entitlements are rights, they ain't.

You didn't earn your life; unless you consider survival/eating food your earning of life?
And you didn't earn your liberty; it's yours and others infringe upon it.
Also acquiring property through first appropriation or inheritance is valid.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 01:59:06 PM by lucidhawk »
Logged
"The arguments that were used to perpetuate slavery are identical to the arguments that are used to perpetuate the existence of the state."

Fred

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2099
    • View Profile

I like to say that you only have the right to things you earned. Some like to think entitlements are rights, they ain't.

You didn't earn your life; unless you consider survival/eating food your earning of life?
And you didn't earn your liberty; it's yours and others infringe upon it.
Also acquiring property through first appropriation or inheritance is valid.

you trolling?  use common sense man
Logged

lucidhawk

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 57
    • View Profile
Logged
"The arguments that were used to perpetuate slavery are identical to the arguments that are used to perpetuate the existence of the state."

alaric89

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
    • View Profile

I like to say that you only have the right to things you earned. Some like to think entitlements are rights, they ain't.

You didn't earn your life; unless you consider survival/eating food your earning of life?
And you didn't earn your liberty; it's yours and others infringe upon it.
Also acquiring property through first appropriation or inheritance is valid.
That's right, dependant children, including myself as a nipper have no rights. I had parents I was completely dependant on. As a self reliant adult I do have rights and believe me, I earned them.
Something dependant on the generosity or whim of others isn't a "right". 
The only "rights" you have are the ones you are willing to defend. If you think you have a right to do something, and a cop or other "authority" figure tells you that you cant do it, and you obey his BS order, that right ceases to exist.

Its as simple as that.

You gotta fight.....BOOM.... BOOM............ for your right ..BOOM ....BOOM BOOM......... to paaaaaartaaay!!! - Beastie Boys
I respectfully disagree. You have a right to your shit. In a free society someone or groups of someone who steals stuff wouldn't be superior in ownership like it is now.
I assume we are talking a free society. If we are speaking of the statist society we are living here and now, we are either slaves or Sneaky ne'er do wells like us, or fed up freemen making a short appearance on cops long enough to be demonised as a kook before taking a dirt nap.

Fred

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2099
    • View Profile

I like to say that you only have the right to things you earned. Some like to think entitlements are rights, they ain't.

You didn't earn your life; unless you consider survival/eating food your earning of life?
And you didn't earn your liberty; it's yours and others infringe upon it.
Also acquiring property through first appropriation or inheritance is valid.

Its as simple as that.

You gotta fight.....BOOM.... BOOM............ for your right ..BOOM ....BOOM BOOM......... to paaaaaartaaay!!! - Beastie Boys
I respectfully disagree. You have a right to your shit. In a free society someone or groups of someone who steals stuff wouldn't be superior in ownership like it is now.
I assume we are talking a free society. If we are speaking of the statist society we are living here and now, we are either slaves or Sneaky ne'er do wells like us, or fed up freemen making a short appearance on cops long enough to be demonised as a kook before taking a dirt nap.
[/quote]

damn Al - that's poetry/!
Logged

alaric89

  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1842
    • View Profile

That's not poetry this is. Natural rights explained by the master.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTOQhPd2Xh4[/youtube]
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
+  The Free Talk Live BBS
|-+  Free Talk Live
| |-+  General
| | |-+  A short analysis of why "rights" discussions fall apart at the seams..

// ]]>

Page created in 0.021 seconds with 32 queries.