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Author Topic: A Really Cool Theory of Liberty! (From Free Market News)  (Read 2532 times)

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bushwacker

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A Really Cool Theory of Liberty! (From Free Market News)
« on: April 24, 2006, 01:49:38 AM »

Check this out guys. Could be a good resource for outreach:

URL: http://tinyurl.com/jpbha

Quote
"America, land of the free." We've all heard it. But just what does freedom mean to you? What can you do as a free man (or woman) that you cannot do without freedom? And what level of freedom do you demand for yourself? Does your conscience play a part in determining the answer to this question, or do you consider it solely on a benefit basis?

"The Cornerstones of American Democracy" is a book available at the national archives as brought to light by Michael Badnarik. He mentions that America was not started as a democracy and still is not a democracy. America is a republic. So why are we all living in a democracy today? Is it better than a republic? More representation, more public influence? More rights? Are these things truly desirable, or can we fall back on natural conscience and the labor theory of property to guide us?

There are two elements at play here. There is freedom within a democracy and there is liberty within a republic. Which is preferable to you? To answer that question one should know the truth about all four terms. Words can be rewritten as easily as history. History is just a collection of words anyway. Have you learned what freedom, democracy, liberty, and republic REALLY mean? Or have you been pulled into Fox news?

Freedom means do anything. Anything you want. Anything at all. Freedom means "do whatever you want, even hurt others." Freedom is the basis behind a democracy. In a democracy, the people are free to do anything they want at all through the power of vote. The people can freely vote to usurp rights and property from the minority of voters. The people can freely vote to usurp homes and land through eminent domain (which is supported by votes). The people can freely vote to dismantle the right to smoke marijuana in the minority of voters. The people can freely vote to mandate the minority of voters to pay for their medical bills (mandatory socialistic medicine is being setup for the future). Do you want to live in a place where everyone else's opinion of you is critical for the security of your rights? Do you want to live in a place where you must spend your life's energy pleasing others so that they do not attack you through their majority of votes? Do you want to live in the collectivist/socialist/communist nightmare predicted by Orwell?
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BenTucker

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Re: A Really Cool Theory of Liberty! (From Free Market News)
« Reply #1 on: April 24, 2006, 07:33:53 AM »

Quote
or can we fall back on natural conscience and the labor theory of property to guide us?

does anyone know what exactly is the labor theory of property that is being referred to here?

John Locke's  - mixing one's labor?

edit: sorry, if you read the article it says...

quote:
 Let me introduce you to "the labor theory of property" which is very different from "the labor theory of value". If you are a hard-working American then you will feel right at home with the labor theory of property, because it supports you in the highest regard possible. This theory suggests that ownership of a product is derived when labor is mixed with material from the same owner to produce that product. That product then becomes the property of the person who owned the material and labored to create it using that material. If a man purchases wood and nails and then builds a house with his own two hands, that house belongs to him. No one else has a claim of ownership to his house. If a man purchases wood and nails and then hires someone else to build his house, the house is still his because the contractor who built his house was trading his labor for compensation and the man was the one who ended up paying the full expense of the labor. The labor inexorably flows from the man's pocket into the man's house, completing the cycle from absolute start to absolute end. The middle-man is simply an artisan attempting to trade his labor (property) for compensation (other property) and when his labor has been fully compensated for he does not hold title to what his labor has produced because the production started with the homeowner's property in all regards.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 07:45:17 AM by BenTucker »
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Ecolitan

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Re: A Really Cool Theory of Liberty! (From Free Market News)
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2006, 12:43:01 AM »

Yes
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bushwacker

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Re: A Really Cool Theory of Liberty! (From Free Market News)
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2006, 03:05:48 AM »

Sure why not... 8-) (Honestly, I have no idea what's going on here!)
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Ecolitan

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Re: A Really Cool Theory of Liberty! (From Free Market News)
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2006, 03:25:00 AM »

He falls short of defining Locke's theory though.  IN the above example he talks about purchasing nails and wood then forming those nails and wood into a house thus owning the house.  Of course if he owns the nails and wood then he owns the house. 

Locke's labor based property goes more like: If a man cuts down a tree that is previously unowned and builds a house with that tree then he owns the house having mixed his labor with the unowned property (the tree) thus making it owned property.

At the time this was the basis for claiming land that no one owned.  If you farmed it than you owned it as labor based property.  Without the labor there was no ownership. 
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Ecolitan

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Re: A Really Cool Theory of Liberty! (From Free Market News)
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2006, 03:30:24 AM »

On further reading whoever wrote that was retarded.

It states very clearly that mixing your labor with property that you already own creates property.  That's retarded.  This person clearly missed the point and tried to repeat something they didn't understand.
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BenTucker

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Re: A Really Cool Theory of Liberty! (From Free Market News)
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2006, 06:07:57 AM »

I believe Locke was very clear that he was talking about the justification for the private enclosure of something that was not "unowned" but rather previous "owned in common"...

the only condition he placed on this private enclosure was his proviso - it is just so long as "enough and as good is left in common for others".

he also had a "spoilage proviso" that was made irrelevant by the advent of money.
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Bill Brasky

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Re: A Really Cool Theory of Liberty! (From Free Market News)
« Reply #7 on: April 27, 2006, 06:19:47 AM »

Stay on topic.  If you forget what it is, go up six spots. 

Bush-  Nice find, finally someone makes some sense.  (Without getting all bogged down in definitions of who owns the fucking clouds.) 
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Ecolitan

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Re: A Really Cool Theory of Liberty! (From Free Market News)
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2006, 07:42:36 AM »

I believe Locke was very clear that he was talking about the justification for the private enclosure of something that was not "unowned" but rather previous "owned in common"...

yeah, I steered clear of the "owned in common" quite intentionally.  Too much heat from the objectivists.  They really hate that "land communist" stuff.  This guy quoted John Galt at the bottom of the article.  Explains why his example assumes everything being owned to begin with.
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JetlagQ

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Re: A Really Cool Theory of Liberty! (From Free Market News)
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2006, 11:02:58 PM »

Well we did end up owning Boston harbor by mixing our tea with it  :lol:
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There is no worse tyranny than to force a man to pay for what he does not want merely because you think it would be good for him.
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