In my opinion, an ethical framework is a set of principles why which you try to live your life. The reason we need to live within such a framework is to maximize our relationship with others. Treat others well; tell them you respect them, and then you'll be able to work with others to mutual benefit.
When my kids ask me about religion, I point out that the basic rules of action in a community that are espoused in all the religions that I know of are very good rules.
The lessons have stood the test of time because they're good lessons. Leave the "gods" out of it.
Looking at the 10 Commandments that don't deal with "gods", we have "do not murder", "do not envy your neighbor's stuff, or spouse", "no trespassing", things like that.
I also notice that even though the idea of secular rulership is often rationalized, so is the idea that even a ruler can be a bad person and unworthy of rulership.
What's funny is the reaction in an atheist forum I received when I mentioned that I don't believe in the Cult of the Omnipotent State religion either. "Just because you're an anarchist you think you're a better atheist than I am???" etc.
I like these comments. In short, we all get the same conscience from our creator (except sociopaths, who seem just as likely to be theist as atheist.) Some just don't recognize the source.
Is this a joke? (if so apologies for the following rant)
If you're talking about the judeo-christo-muslim abrahamic god, I definately DO NOT get my conscience from him.
I don't think its okay to murder gay people.
I don't think its okay to own slaves and beat them.
I don't think its okay to stone women for not being virgins on their wedding night.
I don't think its okay to kill children who curse their parents.
I don't think its okay to mercilessly kill entire towns full of people, including children who couldn't possibly be responsible for anything other towns people.
I don't think its okay to take sex slaves of the remaining virgins from said towns.
I don't think its okay to torture thieves, and people who disbelieve in god (Even if there was a god), for an infinite amount of time.The reason why lots of religionists like to claim ethics cam from god is because its fairly universal, and its easy to give credit for universal things because often people don't have a good idea of where they come from.
Like the people who when pressed for evidence of god say, look all around you, trees, birds, clouds, where'd they come from? god did it. Cause they're the same dumbass hicks who have no idea where those things come from so like to abdicate any reasoning to blind faith.
Even if there was a god/creator,
we know he didn't give us morals. Humans evolved morals just like they evolved language and use of tools.
If anything religion was a major setback to the evolution of ethics because it taught people to be blindly obedient to higher powers rather than to figure out whats right and wrong for themselves.Ethics have been around for millions of years in one form or another. . And the absolute best case you can make for a god, is that he started the big bang and hasn't done anything since, in which case he can't have inspired ethics.
If you pick a far enough common ancestor, you can find one where they have no system of justice and no concept of ethics. There's a clear path between less complex life, and more complex life with more complex communication and social abilities. Ethics are a part of that evolution.
There are lots of tribal animals out there, they have very rudimentary system of ethics by which other animals (family) are protected (to an extent).
Humans evolved to live in larger groups, and to be more co operative (division of labor is as old as humans as far as we can tell), so it makes sense for ethics to have evolved simultaneously to allow this larger group living.
Humans are just higher up on the path, with the added tweat that we simultaneous developed cognition and self awareness in order that we may better survive, make tools, solve problems etc.
With that cognition we can also reason ethics, and not just do them on instinctive drive like other animals do.A testament to the evolution of ethics is the fact that there are now places where most people don't think its okay to murder homosexual people, non believers or stone disobedient children anymore.
God has never told people that its wrong to murder someone just because they sleep with someone of the same sex (an act that harms no one), but yet we figured it out,
even though for thousands of years most of the christian and muslim world believed the creator of the universe wanted gay people to be put to death.Thats a hell of a bias to overcome, but we did it, because by and large we're fucking brilliant.
Religious ethics are bad precisely because they don't encourage people to reason and evolve ethics,
but to stick to some handed on high set of rulings from a higher authority (sound like any bad ideas you know?).
The 10 Commandments are a great example. an incredibly dumb set of rules, the first 5 seeming to be from a petty and self obsessed asshole who only cares about worship from beings ostensibly infinitely less interesting and wise( itsalmost as if it was a fictional creation designed to inspire blind loyalty)
1.I am the Lord your God
2.You shall have no other gods before me
3.You shall not make for yourself an idol
4.You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
5.Remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Shit, those are all definitely more important than murdering people.
The only 3 that are actually substantive ethics, are don't kill, don't steal, don't bear false witness. The others are only mildly good advice (don't be jealous and don't fuck someone elses wife).
wheres?
Thou Shalt not make people into slaves.
Thou shalt not initiate force.
Thou shalt not murder peaceful same sex couples.
Thou shalt not use force to censor others speech.
Thou would also be doing yourself a favor if you thought for yourself
Assuming this is the word of the "creator", and we all got our ethics from the same "creator", seems like he missed a trick by including mostly self absorbed bullshit about worshipping himself, and forgetting to mention that slavery is bad, aswell as some other pretty important ethics that are now common place.
huh, its almost as if the judeo-christian god was a fictional creation from backwards ass middle easterners who had mostly the same dumbass social-cultural views as most other people in that area at that time.
The 'source' of most peoples ethics is from the culture we're brought up in, and what we figure out from then on.
If you're going to give god credit for ethics, you might aswell give him credit for maths (he made the universe on which its based), music (he made the physics to make it possible), and pretty much everything else humans have been responsible for.
And then you can be a fucking subservient asshole who has no appreciation for the brilliance of human kind and wants to differ it all away to some higher power.
<close vent>