أشهد أن لا إله إلاَّ الله و أشهد أن محمدا رسو

[Evil Muppet]

Actually I think the Mongol hordes has a better claim to uniting the Eurasian landmass and they certainly were not Islamic. 

Then why did the science and technology, capitalism, industrialization, develop as they did in Western civilization and not in the Islamic world? 

Ever consider that it might be the religion itself which retards the economic growth of Islamic countries?

[Alex Libman 15]

Actually I think the Mongol hordes has a better claim to uniting the Eurasian landmass and they certainly were not Islamic.

I said the first civilization to unite the Afro-Eurasian landmass for trade.  The mongols merely collected a small tax over many lands, many of which were Islamic and have remained Islamic, while Mongolia has fallen - it exists as an independent nation only because Russia and China didn't want to fight over it and agreed on a neutral compromise.

Then why did the science and technology, capitalism, industrialization, develop as they did in Western civilization and not in the Islamic world?

Because the West wasn't a liberal democracy back then?

Ever consider that it might be the religion itself which retards the economic growth of Islamic countries?

There's no evidence of that, while I've presented many arguments on why religion is beneficial.

A noob might frag an experienced Quake player every so often, but over the course of a lengthy death-match the better player will prevail.

[anarchir]

So far as trolls go Libman you really suck.  You embody so many mental problems, even if this online life of yours is just an act.

[Alex Libman 15]

Thank you.

Oh, and this thread wouldn't be complete without...

Osama bin Ladin quotes!   Yaay!

[libertylover]

Any religion that requires total obedience without thought is not likely to produce people capable of critical thought, people capable of free and independent thought.Human beings have natural rights,whatever their sex may be.

I dont see other religions stoning people to death, cutting off their clitoris or making them wear burqas.Their is no defending this behaviour.

I wonder how this squares with the fact that there have been numerous Muslim female leaders and heads of state. 

Some argue that the Qur'an gives women the right to participate in public affairs as there are examples of women who took part in serious discussions and argued even with Muhammad himself.[3] In addition, during the Caliphate of Umar, a woman argued with him in the mosque, proved her point, and caused him to declare in the presence of many people: "A woman is right and Umar is wrong".

Some Muslims argue that Muhammad's wife Aisha, who both took part in politics and served as a major authority on hadith, is an example of possible roles for Muslim women. Other Muslims would strongly disagree. (Aisha is seen in a darker light by Shi'a Muslims because she opposed Muhammad's cousin and son-in-law Ali.) Other examples of possible roles include Ume Warqa and Samra Binte Wahaib, appointed heads of market committees of Medina and Mecca by Umar, the second Sunni caliph. There are few other historical role models for Muslim women as leaders. Razia Sultana was the short-lived third major independent Muslim ruler of the Sultanate of Delhi in India and the Mamluk queen Shajarat ad-Durr ruled for a few years in Egypt. One more example of a Muslim female head of state is Soyembika of Kazan, who ruled the Kazan Khanate in the 16th century.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_political_leaders_in_Islam_and_in_Muslim-majority_countries

[Alex Libman 15]

I'm fighting hard in a thread on another forum called "FLDS, the American Talibans", and, while the title of this thread was meant to be a mindless insult, it could in fact be said that Mormonism is the branch of Christianity that is closest to Islam, and for reasons that don't just involve polygamy.  What happens when a strong pragmatic religion thrives in a first-world nation?  Mormons (whose statistics can be estimated by looking at Utah) are the most demographically-productive major religious group in the United States, which is very import, but they are also among the hardest working, hardest playing, and most pro-capitalist!

[Andy]

Any religion that requires total obedience without thought is not likely to produce people capable of critical thought, people capable of free and independent thought.Human beings have natural rights,whatever their sex may be.

I dont see other religions stoning people to death, cutting off their clitoris or making them wear burqas.Their is no defending this behaviour.

I wonder how this squares with the fact that there have been numerous Muslim female leaders and heads of state. 
ders.

It squares the same way that Elizabeth could be queen of sixteenth century England while women were still very much second class citizens. Sometimes class overrides sex.

The point is even if Islam was just swell for its time, that counts for nothing now.

[Andy]

So far as trolls go Libman you really suck.  You embody so many mental problems, even if this online life of yours is just an act.

What makes you think Libman is trolling?

[libertylover]

Any religion that requires total obedience without thought is not likely to produce people capable of critical thought, people capable of free and independent thought.Human beings have natural rights,whatever their sex may be.

I dont see other religions stoning people to death, cutting off their clitoris or making them wear burqas.Their is no defending this behaviour.

I wonder how this squares with the fact that there have been numerous Muslim female leaders and heads of state. 
ders.

It squares the same way that Elizabeth could be queen of sixteenth century England while women were still very much second class citizens. Sometimes class overrides sex.

The point is even if Islam was just swell for its time, that counts for nothing now.

I did actually have a conversation with a co-worker who is an Omam (sp?) as to why some Muslim women are forced to wear burqas and others here in the US simply wear a head scarf or only wear the head scarf to religious services?  He told me that was totally a cultural difference and had nothing to do with the religion.  Just like Amish are Christians and wear their distinctive clothing as a cultural expression of their form of Christianity.  There is no rule that all Christians have to adopt Amish clothing styles any more than there is an Islamic law which requires women wear burqas.   

As for the other statements of oppression those are religiously influenced laws.  Stoning which is a form of execution.  Here in the US people are put to death by gas chamber, electric chair or hanging but the people are just as dead.  We dub it capital punishment and is the penalty for murder or treason.  In some non- Muslim countries capital punishment applies to drug dealing and other laws.   I don't agree with any form of capital punishment personally.  But to say that all Muslims practice stoning is just a big a lie as saying all Muslim women are required to wear burqas or have a female circumcision.  It is only a subset that engages in such activities and you will find those cultures are also oppressive on the male population as well.

Not a proponent of gentile mutilation male or female but the practice is more cultural.  There is evidence of both found on Egyptian mummies which predate Islam.  Female circumcision is a practice that is confined to Sudan and small strip of sub Sahara Africa.  Also, some who practice FC are Christian in that area of Africa.  So again it is not a religious doctrine it is a cultural thing which some have used religion to attempt to justify.

[Alex Libman 15]

I wish I could go out wearing a full Hijab - with tinted eyeholes... 

[anarchir]

I wish I could go out wearing a full Hijab - with tinted eyeholes... 

Whats stopping you? Then we dont have to see your ugly troll face 

[Dylboz]

Allāhu Akbar.

After 3 years of my childhood living across the street from a Dhahran mosque, that is indelibly ingrained in my mind. I can't even read it without hearing that crusty old Imam's voice blaring through the shitty PA they hung from the minarets.

[Alex Libman 15]

I wish I could go out wearing a full Hijab - with tinted eyeholes...  Whats stopping you? Then we dont have to see your ugly troll face

Muslim men would be all over me.   

[anarchir]

I wish I could go out wearing a full Hijab - with tinted eyeholes...  Whats stopping you? Then we dont have to see your ugly troll face

Muslim men would be all over me.   

Then just flash them a bit of skin --> .

[Alex Libman 15]

Then they'd behead me for cross-dressing.