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Author Topic: "Happy Armistice Day."  (Read 11869 times)

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Ecolitan

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2010, 06:59:21 PM »

Collectivist bullshit. "They" didn't start a damn thing.


''they'' didn't do anything to stop ''their'' madmen

Neither did you.  Today, right now, if those madmen are "their" madmen then "our" madmen are "your" madmen.  Maybe you'll have it coming when a suicide bomber ends up in "your" checkout line at wal-mart.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2010, 07:01:20 PM by Ecolitan »
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Riddler

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2010, 11:00:33 PM »

i actually shot a bunch of muslim-extrmists today
and a bunch of liberals
i missed barney frank by ''that much'', chief
they're all buried out by the wood pile, so, yes, i've done my part
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Ecolitan

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2010, 11:07:06 PM »

Even better illustrates my point.  Some of those civilians also had done their part but "their" madmen kept on being madmen.

I'm not arguing against dropping THE bomb or anything like that.  Just against your callous harley 'ridin trailer-trash plumber way of not giving a fuck about real people in real life because they're a different nationality than you.
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davann

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2010, 12:32:28 AM »

In some places, they take the holiday seriously. I was in Ballarat, Australia on the eleventh. In Ballarat, all the city’s young men—2000 of them— went off to fight in WWI. Every last one of them died in a single battle at Gallipoli.


Holy shit. Maybe it is the beer talking but, holy shit. Even though Australia is the Alabama of the world, holy shit. That sucks.
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #19 on: November 15, 2010, 01:10:42 AM »

Collectivist bullshit. "They" didn't start a damn thing.

Yeah, actually they, too, have responsiblity.

Remember, the Nazis were voted INTO office.

That's because said madmen weren't "THEIRS" to stop. Nobody is responsible for the actions of another person unless they actively encouraged those actions. Nobody has an obligation to put their lives at risk (and more importantly, those of their families) to confront an evil person. Doing so makes a person a hero; failing to do so does not make them a party to the crime.

Killing a non-murderer, however, makes one a murderer.

The Nazis were actively encouraged by the populace, and, if you were German, you profited greatly off of their actions from 1932-1945.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 01:12:30 AM by TimeLady Victorious »
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Ecolitan

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2010, 08:02:49 AM »

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The Nazis were actively encouraged by the populace

Not all of them.  Some hid jews y'know.  Some were working for 'us'.

George W was voted into office.  I didn't do it.  I risk prison in order to not be a part of government's evil shit.  Your reasoning would blame me for Homeland Security dead Iraqi civilians.



 
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and, if you were German, you profited greatly off of their actions from 1932-1945.

lol...  pretty sure 1944 and 1945 were pretty shitty years for everyone there.

Why would you say something so clearly ridiculous in response to me?  Don't you know I'm going to ridicule you for it?
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Riddler

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #21 on: November 15, 2010, 08:07:18 AM »


I'm not arguing against dropping THE bomb or anything like that.  Just against your callous harley 'ridin trailer-trash plumber way of not giving a fuck about real people in real life because they're a different nationality than you.

tell that to the 6 mill.burned/gassed/murdered cuz they weren't of the ''master race''
tell that to the mill. of chinee /phillipino/islanders that weren't of jap vintage.

btw, mah trailer is 4000 sq. ft, negroe
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Brooklyn Red Leg

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #22 on: November 15, 2010, 08:08:20 AM »

Hey, vae victis.

That's more than a tad bit cold-blooded, dontcha think? Revenge much?
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #23 on: November 15, 2010, 09:05:53 AM »

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The Nazis were actively encouraged by the populace

Not all of them.  Some hid jews y'know.  Some were working for 'us'.

George W was voted into office.  I didn't do it.  I risk prison in order to not be a part of government's evil shit.  Your reasoning would blame me for Homeland Security dead Iraqi civilians.



 
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and, if you were German, you profited greatly off of their actions from 1932-1945.

lol...  pretty sure 1944 and 1945 were pretty shitty years for everyone there.

Why would you say something so clearly ridiculous in response to me?  Don't you know I'm going to ridicule you for it?

I dunno, if you're saying that the W administration is as bad as the Nazis then you're the one saying something ridiculous.

Hey, vae victis.

That's more than a tad bit cold-blooded, dontcha think? Revenge much?

Yes, and that's exactly what a lot of the countries which were occupied thought. (I'm thinking primarily here of the Soviet Union, France, the Netherlands, and Norway.)(
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Branlin

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #24 on: November 15, 2010, 10:20:52 AM »

People can argue endlessly over which government did what first, and which one is more evil.

But the root of the problem, as I see it, is the existence of government itself -- the concentration of nearly unlimited power to destroy and kill into a few hands.

As someone said, paraphrased: "Man was not designed to hold this kind of power. There probably isn't a person anywhere in the world that is capable of responsibly handling the vast power of the POTUS."

Some statists I debate always bring up how evil "the rich" are. But I tell them, can Bill Gates slaughter thousands of people and get away with it? Does he even have any incentive or interest in doing so? Can Ross Perot confiscate your house, bank account, or retirement funds? Of course not.

The concentration of political power -- which always ends in violence against the innocent -- is the real problem. I rarely agree with Communists, but Mao Tse-Tung was accurate when he said: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 10:24:04 AM by Branlin »
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2010, 10:29:43 AM »

People can argue endlessly over which government did what first, and which one is more evil.

But the root of the problem, as I see it, is the existence of government itself -- the concentration of nearly unlimited power to destroy and kill into a few hands.

As someone said, paraphrased: "Man was not designed to hold this kind of power. There probably isn't a person anywhere in the world that is capable of responsibly handling the vast power of the POTUS."

Some statists I debate always bring up how evil "the rich" are. But I tell them, can Bill Gates slaughter thousands of people and get away with it? Does he even have any incentive or interest in doing so? Can Ross Perot confiscate your house, bank account, or retirement funds? Of course not.

The concentration of political power -- which always ends in violence against the innocent -- is the real problem. I rarely agree with Communists, but Mao Tse-Tung was accurate when he said: "Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun."

Bill Gates and Ross Perot could do that if they paid enough people to in the absence of a government. It's happened frequently throughout history; there's no reason to think that it couldn't in the future. And, if there was no government anywhere, then good luck having a guaranteed bank account, unless some sort of egold scheme comes up and is actually viable for the long term.

If you really want to live in a land of no government, you are free to move to Somalia. Seriously. And if you say that Somalia is insufficient because it's not the magic land of anarcho-capitalist voluntaryists, it's still a place where there is no effective government - "no government" seeming to be the goal of the libertarian movement, under the illusion that it's government that's the problem, and not the people who run it - and people have banded together to make micro-states out of the country.

(Strangely enough Somaliland and Puntland seem to be thriving compared with the rest of the "country".)
« Last Edit: November 15, 2010, 10:33:49 AM by TimeLady Victorious »
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Branlin

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2010, 10:58:46 AM »

Bill Gates and Ross Perot could do that if they paid enough people to in the absence of a government. It's happened frequently throughout history; there's no reason to think that it couldn't in the future. And, if there was no government anywhere, then good luck having a guaranteed bank account, unless some sort of egold scheme comes up and is actually viable for the long term.

Why do people assume that if government does X, then in the absence of government, X wouldn't exist?

Do you think only government can build roads? Do you think banks wouldn't exist if there was no government? How is the heavy regulation of banks working out?

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If you really want to live in a land of no government, you are free to move to Somalia. Seriously. And if you say that Somalia is insufficient because it's not the magic land of anarcho-capitalist voluntaryists, it's still a place where there is no effective government - "no government" seeming to be the goal of the libertarian movement, under the illusion that it's government that's the problem, and not the people who run it - and people have banded together to make micro-states out of the country.

(Strangely enough Somaliland and Puntland seem to be thriving compared with the rest of the "country".)

Again, you are assuming that Somalia is the way it is because there is no effective government. Iraq has a government, actually two counting the occupying U.S. Is it stable? Peaceful? No crime or violence?

How heavy is the hand of government in our inner cities? And yet they are the most dangerous areas in the country. I don't steal from my neighbors, destroy their property, or violate the women. And it isn't the existence of government -- and its laws against those crimes -- that prevents me from doing it. The government in this case is irrelevant -- I don't do those things simply because they are wrong.

An institution that demands a monopoly on the use of violence will breed violence.
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2010, 11:17:40 AM »

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Why do people assume that if government does X, then in the absence of government, X wouldn't exist?

Do you think only government can build roads? Do you think banks wouldn't exist if there was no government? How is the heavy regulation of banks working out?

Why do you presume that if governments were absent that it would be paradise on earth? And the regulations of banks certainly make them work better than in the days when they weren't regulated. Those regulations initially came about because of the Panics of the 19th century, in which banks went insolvent and people were made paupers overnight because the banks went bust, along with their savings.

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Again, you are assuming that Somalia is the way it is because there is no effective government. Iraq has a government, actually two counting the occupying U.S. Is it stable? Peaceful? No crime or violence?

Kurdistan is very stable. The Iraqi situation is the way it is because the US and its allies butted itself into it. The government before was VERY stable. (Also VERY totalitarian and frightening.)

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How heavy is the hand of government in our inner cities? And yet they are the most dangerous areas in the country. I don't steal from my neighbors, destroy their property, or violate the women. And it isn't the existence of government -- and its laws against those crimes -- that prevents me from doing it. The government in this case is irrelevant -- I don't do those things simply because they are wrong.

And then there are people who don't do that simply because they know they won't be able to get away with it.  There are very many people now and throughout history who can and have, usually in a period where there is little or no government and they know they can. Other people have different moral codes than you do.
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Branlin

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2010, 12:06:58 PM »


Why do you presume that if governments were absent that it would be paradise on earth?
I don't. Nothing in this world is perfect. But I bet it would be a lot better than Stalin's "Workers' Paradise." :)

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And the regulations of banks certainly make them work better than in the days when they weren't regulated. Those regulations initially came about because of the Panics of the 19th century, in which banks went insolvent and people were made paupers overnight because the banks went bust, along with their savings.

And if The Fed eventually causes hyperinflation, people will run the banks regardless of FDIC. The value of the money they draw out will be dropping like a rock, and the longer they leave it in the bank the more worthless it becomes. FDIC just props up bad banking practices. Without it banks would have to be more careful about what they do. As it is now, they know the taxpayers will bail them out so they take risks they otherwise wouldn't.

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Kurdistan is very stable. The Iraqi situation is the way it is because the US and its allies butted itself into it. The government before was VERY stable. (Also VERY totalitarian and frightening.)

I agree. But my point was: the existence of government, or even two of them, does not necessarily bring peace or stability.

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And then there are people who don't do that simply because they know they won't be able to get away with it.  There are very many people now and throughout history who can and have, usually in a period where there is little or no government and they know they can. Other people have different moral codes than you do.

Absolutely true. But again, you're assuming (I think) that if government wasn't around to punish criminals then they wouldn't get punished.
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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: "Happy Armistice Day."
« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2010, 12:38:04 PM »


Why do you presume that if governments were absent that it would be paradise on earth?
I don't. Nothing in this world is perfect. But I bet it would be a lot better than Stalin's "Workers' Paradise." :)

Doubtful. In one you have the "freedom" to starve, in another you have the "freedom" to do as they tell you.

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And the regulations of banks certainly make them work better than in the days when they weren't regulated. Those regulations initially came about because of the Panics of the 19th century, in which banks went insolvent and people were made paupers overnight because the banks went bust, along with their savings.

And if The Fed eventually causes hyperinflation, people will run the banks regardless of FDIC. The value of the money they draw out will be dropping like a rock, and the longer they leave it in the bank the more worthless it becomes. FDIC just props up bad banking practices. Without it banks would have to be more careful about what they do. As it is now, they know the taxpayers will bail them out so they take risks they otherwise wouldn't.

And if banks don't exist then likely the entire economic system will collapse as a who.e.

Quote
Kurdistan is very stable. The Iraqi situation is the way it is because the US and its allies butted itself into it. The government before was VERY stable. (Also VERY totalitarian and frightening.)

I agree. But my point was: the existence of government, or even two of them, does not necessarily bring peace or stability.

It generally does, however.

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And then there are people who don't do that simply because they know they won't be able to get away with it.  There are very many people now and throughout history who can and have, usually in a period where there is little or no government and they know they can. Other people have different moral codes than you do.


Absolutely true. But again, you're assuming (I think) that if government wasn't around to punish criminals then they wouldn't get punished.

A lot won't because there would be no justice system around to do anything about it. And if you bring up "private law", then naturally there will be people who would have fuck-all to do with "private law" and decide to do as they please with no police force and no system of meteting out punishment.
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