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Free Talk Live => General => Topic started by: mrapplecastle on November 18, 2006, 01:10:44 AM

Title: "dystopian" literature
Post by: mrapplecastle on November 18, 2006, 01:10:44 AM
I just finished reading the Iron Heel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_heel), which is listed as dystopian along with other classics like 1984, brave new world, and atlas shrugged.
Does anyone have any recommendations to any other fiction books that fit this niche
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dystopian_literature
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalyptic_and_post-apocalyptic_science_fiction#Novels
anarcho-cap fiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#Fiction)

The Iron Heel was'nt all that great, I'm going to start on Atlas Shrugged next....hopefully it'll be better  :D
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Brian Wolf on November 18, 2006, 02:16:00 AM
I just finished reading the Iron Heel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_heel), which is listed as dystopian along with other classics like 1984, brave new world, and atlas shrugged.
Does anyone have any recommendations to any other fiction books that fit this niche
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dystopian_literature
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalyptic_and_post-apocalyptic_science_fiction#Novels
anarcho-cap fiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#Fiction)

The Iron Heel was'nt all that great, I'm going to start on Atlas Shrugged next....hopefully it'll be better  :D

I really like 'Snow Crash' by Neal Stephenson.
All though, I am not sure if a lot of Libertarians would agree that it is dystopian.
Its sort of the free market run amok, or maybe its a democrats nightmare. 
I don't' really think it sounds like a great place to live myself, but to each his own.
I do want the Metaverse though.
Anyway its a pretty fun read.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: error on November 18, 2006, 04:42:51 AM
Left-leaning sci-fi writers always seem to conceive of "corporate dystopia," wherein corporations have completed their takeover of government and become de facto authorities over people.

They're describing a society which could never arise in the form in which they conceive it; the nearest such form of dystopia is the form we see around us today.

Corporations require a host government to force people to do things; without it, they're just another business you can take or leave.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: mrapplecastle on November 18, 2006, 11:27:38 AM
another one I read a couple of months back was rebel fire (http://www.rebelfirerock.com/home.html), it's aimed at a teen audience but was'nt bad. 

I'll have to see if my library has Snow Crash
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Brian Wolf on November 18, 2006, 11:55:25 AM
Left-leaning sci-fi writers always seem to conceive of "corporate dystopia," wherein corporations have completed their takeover of government and become de facto authorities over people.
They're describing a society which could never arise in the form in which they conceive it; the nearest such form of dystopia is the form we see around us today.
Corporations require a host government to force people to do things; without it, they're just another business you can take or leave.

I am not sure what Neal's political leanings are. He is a pretty complicated guy, and he does not preach about society. He creates interesting ones to set his stories in.

Check out this excerpt from Reason Magazine (http://www.reason.com/news/show/36481.html)

Reason: Snow Crash is almost a parody of a libertarian future. Do you think the affinity-group-based societies you outline in that book are on their way? Do you see that as a warning note, or a natural state we're progressing toward?

Stephenson: I dreamed up the Snow Crash world 15 years ago as a thought experiment, and I tweaked it to be as funny and outrageous and graphic novel�like as I could make it. Such a world wouldn't be stable unless each little "burbclave" had the ability to defend itself from all external threats. This is not plausible, barring some huge advances in defensive technology. So I think that if I were seriously to address your question, "Do you see that as a warning note, or a natural state...?," I would be guilty of taking myself a little bit too seriously.

Speaking as an observer who has many friends with libertarian instincts, I would point out that terrorism is a much more formidable opponent of political liberty than government. Government acts almost as a recruiting station for libertarians. Anyone who pays taxes or has to fill out government paperwork develops libertarian impulses almost as a knee-jerk reaction. But terrorism acts as a recruiting station for statists. So it looks to me as though we are headed for a triangular system in which libertarians and statists and terrorists interact with each other in a way that I'm afraid might turn out to be quite stable.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: mrapplecastle on November 18, 2006, 12:03:59 PM
the statist is the terrorist
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Trademark on November 18, 2006, 12:49:12 PM
the statist is the terrorist

Ray Bradburys, "The Illustraded Man" is a classic. You can get it on paper back for about 10 bones. It's worth it to have it in your study. Did you understand that you stupid fucking redneck?!  :P
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Trademark on November 18, 2006, 12:50:04 PM
I just finished reading the Iron Heel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_heel), which is listed as dystopian along with other classics like 1984, brave new world, and atlas shrugged.
Does anyone have any recommendations to any other fiction books that fit this niche
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dystopian_literature
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apocalyptic_and_post-apocalyptic_science_fiction#Novels
anarcho-cap fiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-capitalism#Fiction)

The Iron Heel was'nt all that great, I'm going to start on Atlas Shrugged next....hopefully it'll be better  :D

I really like 'Snow Crash' by Neal Stephenson.
All though, I am not sure if a lot of Libertarians would agree that it is dystopian.
Its sort of the free market run amok, or maybe its a democrats nightmare. 
I don't' really think it sounds like a great place to live myself, but to each his own.
I do want the Metaverse though.
Anyway its a pretty fun read.
That book is hella long right B?
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: mrapplecastle on November 18, 2006, 01:10:03 PM
the statist is the terrorist

Ray Bradburys, "The Illustraded Man" is a classic. You can get it on paper back for about 10 bones. It's worth it to have it in your study. Did you understand that you stupid fucking redneck?! :P
i have it already and fahrenheit 451
my library has atlas shrugged in their system, but the book is nowhere to be found  :lol:
so I'll read me some ray bradbury  :D
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Trademark on November 18, 2006, 01:24:07 PM
the statist is the terrorist

Ray Bradburys, "The Illustraded Man" is a classic. You can get it on paper back for about 10 bones. It's worth it to have it in your study. Did you understand that you stupid fucking redneck?! :P
i have it already and fahrenheit 451
my library has atlas shrugged in their system, but the book is nowhere to be found  :lol:
so I'll read me some ray bradbury  :D
Well then give me some decent Sci-Fi books dood. I like twisted space stories.


(http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9911/26/mars.imagination/martian.chronicles.jpg) <--This one roxxxxxxx!
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Taors on November 18, 2006, 01:28:10 PM
Stephen King's The Stand.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Trademark on November 18, 2006, 01:36:11 PM
Stephen King's The Stand.
There were aspects of that I liked, but over all it was kind of corny.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: mrapplecastle on November 18, 2006, 01:45:44 PM
The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Moon_Is_a_Harsh_Mistress)  :?

hostile takeover trilogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hostile_Takeover_Trilogy) seems like it would be interesting
Quote
Hostile Takeover is a science fiction trilogy (actually one long novel in three parts) written by S. Andrew Swann and published by DAW Books where the main setting is the Anarcho-capitalist planet of Bakunin. It consists of three books titled Profiteer, Partisan and Revolutionary, which were published between 1995 and 1996 and re-released by DAW in a single volume in 2004.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Cable on November 18, 2006, 03:48:54 PM
"We" is usually listed right alongside 1984 and Brave New World.  I own it, but I had a hard time getting into it.  Ayn Rand's Anthem is a much quicker, much less aggravating dystopian novella than Atlas Shrugged (One thing I can't stand about Rand's novels is the characters don't seem human.  They NEVER make a decision that isn't based on their philosophy, have no flaws (or at least act like it...i'd call not acting human a flaw :P), no moments of indecision (in fact you rarely get to see what they're thinking about, just what they say or see), and they to go on huge monologues espousing philosophy and preaching, preaching, preaching. 

Plus she's extremely long winded and has to describe fucking everything, and she seems to hate other people, except for whoever the love interest is (you should read her monologue against the word 'we' in Anthem).  Plus she seems to be completely against charity or helping other people out, even when it's voluntarily given.  They are hard reads for me, and one of my classrooms witnessed me throwing The Fountainhead across the room in anger multiple times while I was reading it.  I made it all the way through that one, but I couldn't stomach too much of Atlas Shrugged.

I have to credit her to leading me to find out about Libertarianism, though, because when reading about her Objectivist philosophy and hating the really cruel and selfish bits, I encountered the term and found Libertarianism much less barbaric and appealing :P.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Ecolitan on November 18, 2006, 04:24:21 PM
A friend once loaned me this: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Handmaid's_Tale

I enjoyed it.  It's VERY dystopian.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: error on November 18, 2006, 04:39:31 PM
Left-leaning sci-fi writers always seem to conceive of "corporate dystopia," wherein corporations have completed their takeover of government and become de facto authorities over people.
They're describing a society which could never arise in the form in which they conceive it; the nearest such form of dystopia is the form we see around us today.
Corporations require a host government to force people to do things; without it, they're just another business you can take or leave.

I am not sure what Neal's political leanings are. He is a pretty complicated guy, and he does not preach about society. He creates interesting ones to set his stories in.

I'm way, way ahead of you (http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2005/02/09/neal-stephenson-interview-past-present-and-future/). :)
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: ladyattis on November 18, 2006, 04:42:52 PM
the statist is the terrorist

Ray Bradburys, "The Illustraded Man" is a classic. You can get it on paper back for about 10 bones. It's worth it to have it in your study. Did you understand that you stupid fucking redneck?! :P
i have it already and fahrenheit 451
my library has atlas shrugged in their system, but the book is nowhere to be found  :lol:
so I'll read me some ray bradbury  :D
Well then give me some decent Sci-Fi books dood. I like twisted space stories.


(http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9911/26/mars.imagination/martian.chronicles.jpg) <--This one roxxxxxxx!

Keep making good suggestions like this and you'll probably get the highest karma rating ever.

-- Bridget
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Skooma on November 18, 2006, 07:52:22 PM
Left-leaning sci-fi writers always seem to conceive of "corporate dystopia," wherein corporations have completed their takeover of government and become de facto authorities over people.

They're describing a society which could never arise in the form in which they conceive it; the nearest such form of dystopia is the form we see around us today.

Corporations require a host government to force people to do things; without it, they're just another business you can take or leave.

Although businesses could certainly amass enough armed thugs to act like a government.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Trademark on November 18, 2006, 08:30:06 PM
the statist is the terrorist

Ray Bradburys, "The Illustraded Man" is a classic. You can get it on paper back for about 10 bones. It's worth it to have it in your study. Did you understand that you stupid fucking redneck?! :P
i have it already and fahrenheit 451
my library has atlas shrugged in their system, but the book is nowhere to be found  :lol:
so I'll read me some ray bradbury  :D
Well then give me some decent Sci-Fi books dood. I like twisted space stories.


(http://www.cnn.com/TECH/space/9911/26/mars.imagination/martian.chronicles.jpg) <--This one roxxxxxxx!

Keep making good suggestions like this and you'll probably get the highest karma rating ever.

-- Bridget
Have you read that one? The Silent Towns, thats my favorite story.  :)
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Brian Wolf on November 18, 2006, 09:18:25 PM

I really like 'Snow Crash' by Neal Stephenson.

That book is hella long right B?

The copy I have is 468 pages.
I really wouldn't have minded if it had been longer.
It was a fun read.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Trademark on November 18, 2006, 09:20:07 PM

I really like 'Snow Crash' by Neal Stephenson.

That book is hella long right B?

The copy I have is 468 pages.
I really wouldn't have minded if it had been longer.
It was a fun read.


That's not bad. What's the plot outline? summed up quick...
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Brian Wolf on November 18, 2006, 09:27:43 PM
That's not bad. What's the plot outline? summed up quick...

Uh, that's going to be a bit of a problem, its a very complicated plot.

In its simplest terms I guess its about a pizza delivery driver/hacker who is trying to stop the 'metaverse' (a sort of a VR internet) from being destroyed by a computer virus.

Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Trademark on November 18, 2006, 09:30:07 PM
That's not bad. What's the plot outline? summed up quick...

Uh, that's going to be a bit of a problem, its a very complicated plot.

In its simplest terms I guess its about a pizza delivery driver/hacker who is trying to stop the 'metaverse' (a sort of a VR internet) from being destroyed by a computer virus.


Is he a stoner?  :P
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Brian Wolf on November 18, 2006, 10:53:58 PM
That's not bad. What's the plot outline? summed up quick...

Uh, that's going to be a bit of a problem, its a very complicated plot.

In its simplest terms I guess its about a pizza delivery driver/hacker who is trying to stop the 'metaverse' (a sort of a VR internet) from being destroyed by a computer virus.


Is he a stoner?  :P

Aren't all pizza delivery drivers?

Its not brought up in the book, but I bet Hiro prolly smokes a blunt every now and then.
(The hero/protagonist of the story is named Hiro Protagonist. Best name ever)
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: HungSquirrel on November 19, 2006, 12:39:37 AM
V for Vendetta.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: error on November 19, 2006, 12:58:01 AM
Neal Stephenson rocks my world. He needs to write as prolifically as Stephen King does. :)
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Brian Wolf on November 19, 2006, 02:21:23 AM
Neal Stephenson rocks my world. He needs to write as prolifically as Stephen King does. :)

I just got into him not long ago.
What should I read of his next?
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: error on November 19, 2006, 02:23:41 AM
Cryptonomicon.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Cable on November 19, 2006, 03:01:32 AM
Snow Crash is actually another book I had a really hard time reading (I gave up after about 50 pages).  Basically the writing seems really pedestrian and like he felt he had to jazz every single sentence up with some outrageous simile/metaphor/hyperbole and choose words that make it sound like he was a lexical genius, when really they were out of place, were used incorrectly, and a much simpler word would have gotten the job done just as well.

These reviews pretty much sum up my feelings on it:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2Y4B35TQ955CW/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2W55FWVNL9QNL/

That having been said, the concept of the book is great, and he definitely has a vivid imagination.  And from what I hear his later books are much, much more mature in writing style.  I just can't get through this one.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: error on November 19, 2006, 03:08:11 AM
Snow Crash wasn't his first book, though it's quite true that his writing matured over time.

Go check out his REAL first book, The Big U. It's much, much different than anything else he's written.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0380816032/freetalklive-20
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Brian Wolf on November 19, 2006, 03:38:38 AM
Snow Crash is actually another book I had a really hard time reading (I gave up after about 50 pages).  Basically the writing seems really pedestrian and like he felt he had to jazz every single sentence up with some outrageous simile/metaphor/hyperbole and choose words that make it sound like he was a lexical genius, when really they were out of place, were used incorrectly, and a much simpler word would have gotten the job done just as well.

These reviews pretty much sum up my feelings on it:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2Y4B35TQ955CW/
http://www.amazon.com/gp/cdp/member-reviews/A2W55FWVNL9QNL/

That having been said, the concept of the book is great, and he definitely has a vivid imagination.  And from what I hear his later books are much, much more mature in writing style.  I just can't get through this one.

I too, had a hard time getting into it. Like you, I set it down after 50 pages or so.
But after a couple of weeks, I picked it back up and soldiered on, and I am really glad I did.

I think that Alec Graham is way too harsh. Perhaps as a writer, he is jealous that someone who isn't a by-the-book author is way more rich and famous than he is? I don't know.

I am sure its not for everyone, but if you can make it through the slow start, it really picks up and goes to some interesting places.
I though it ended rather abruptly, but other than that, and his 'interesting' writing style, I had few complaints about it.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Cable on November 19, 2006, 04:19:03 AM
I might give it another chance eventually.  I still own it, and I was kinda planning on trying to force myself through it sometime so I could move on to other works llike Cryptonomicon (the first book of his to catch my interest, mostly because of the title and the faux-worn look of the pages).  However, I still have 6 Philip K. Dick novels left to read that my ex-roommate left me, and those in general are much more interesting (even though they're more sci-fi reality mindfucks than dystopian).  The PKD novels I've liked the best so far are Ubik, Three Stigmata of Palmer Eldritch, and We Can Build You.  Solar Lottery is actually somewhat dystopian, in as much that the world is run by a dictator who is chosen at random out of all the people in the country (might be world in this one) by a computer, and can legally be challenged and killed by rivals, or he can be ousted of at any time when the computer decides to chose someone new, but it focuses more on the story of the previous guy doing whatever he can to get back into power than on the nature of a society run in this way.

And I'm a writer also (not published yet, except for some old high school essay on water conservation in some local journal), but I'm not jealous of the guy.  I can see why the book is popular (it's a geek's wet dream, basically), I just couldn't get into it.

The only write I could say I'm jealous of is Dan Brown, and only because I can't believe such a crappy writer could be a bestseller.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: error on November 19, 2006, 04:23:02 AM
Snow Crash is not required reading for Cryptonomicon. :)
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Cable on November 19, 2006, 04:28:54 AM
I know it's not, but I like to go through an author's works more or less chronologically so I can compare and contrast how he or she has grown as an author more easily than just reading the books scattershot.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: error on November 19, 2006, 04:31:44 AM
Makes sense. I don't generally read things chronologically like that unless they're intended to be, such as a series, or Terry Pratchett.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Cable on November 19, 2006, 04:59:05 PM
Terry Pratchett.

One of the best authors of all time.  I would have been such a sad, sad little boy if I had been born more than a couple generations ago and could never experience Pratchett's consistent brilliance and entertainment.  Although I didn't even discover the guy until I was 22 years old, but still :P.

See, I fancy myself a writer also, and unpublished, so its better for me so I can relate, and I'm much more interested in an author's earlier works than later works.  I was unaware of The Big U, however.  Guess I gotta read that first :/.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Taors on November 19, 2006, 05:04:01 PM
Terry Pratchett.

One of the best authors of all time.  I would have been such a sad, sad little boy if I had been born more than a couple generations ago and could never experience Pratchett's consistent brilliance and entertainment.  Although I didn't even discover the guy until I was 22 years old, but still :P.

See, I fancy myself a writer also, and unpublished, so its better for me so I can relate, and I'm much more interested in an author's earlier works than later works.  I was unaware of The Big U, however.  Guess I gotta read that first :/.

What book would you recommend for a first time reader of Pratchett?
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Cable on November 19, 2006, 05:22:22 PM
Just start at the beginning of the Discworld series (The Colour of Magic) and while that should be entertaining enough, it takes him a few books to build some really memorable characters and for him to start caring more about plot structure and get into his indirect commentary on the human condition utilizing his fantasy world.  Regardless, his later books assume you've read the earlier books and characters will pop in without introduction and refer to things that happened in the books before, so its best if you've read the others.

I read like 30 books of his in the span of about 2 months.  Once I started, I couldn't stop.

DON'T read Good Omens first, because while it's a decent book, it's nowhere near as funny as his other books and it actually prevented me from checking out his Discworld series for like 6 years afterwards.  I think it was all Gaiman's influence in the story, as Gaiman is really a hit-or-miss author.  But anything Pratchett has written solo is a great read.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: mrapplecastle on August 29, 2010, 03:39:55 PM
I finished reading "under the dome" a couple days ago, it was the first stephen king book I've read, I liked it even though I didnt care for how "the problem" was solved.
I was wondering if anyone might have some good horror suggestions?
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: hellbilly on August 29, 2010, 07:04:19 PM
Angel Dust Apocalypse
- Jeremy Johnson

(http://img1.fantasticfiction.co.uk/images/n61/n305358.jpg)

Hard to say just what sort of writing these short stories are, but the cover does not represent them well.

Not dystopian, not horror.. but creepy, surreal, funny, violent, and a good amount of people tweaking on drugs.

Didn't like the first story at all but the rest were good.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Bill Brasky on August 29, 2010, 09:34:45 PM
Try The Road by Cormac McCarthy.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: hellbilly on August 29, 2010, 10:44:27 PM
Try The Road by Cormac McCarthy.

Definitely.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Bill Brasky on August 29, 2010, 11:23:08 PM
Try The Road by Cormac McCarthy.

Definitely.

I know you were into it from previous convo, and I personally liked it a lot.  His style is unique, and I admire that.  It was dry, but a page-turner nonetheless. 

Since I'm pretty fresh off having just read it in the past few months, it lept to mind.  But I think it stuck on my permanent list.  I'd probably suggest it years from now. 

For a little background, Cormac McCarthy also wrote No Country For Old Men, which I keep meaning to get.  Hes a Pulitzer Prize winner, who also wrote a well-received book called Blood Meridian, which is listed in Time Magazines poll of 100 greatest books of the 20th century.  I know nothing abut Blood Meridian, other than that.

He's a very private, secretive man, who almost never gives interviews, and has a pretty harsh view of society. 

 
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: hellbilly on August 30, 2010, 06:27:13 PM
In his 60's he also fathered a son. I think that kid was the inspiration for the character "The Boy" in The Road. I ended up seeing the movie after reading the book, never seen people look so affected from a movie, everyone was just on the verge of tears I reckon.

I did tell you about the "Judge" character in Blood Meridian ( <- also to be a movie pretty soon). You'll dig that book.

And while we're at it, I'll remind you and recommend to everyone else to get a copy of The Stories of Breece D'J Pancake (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breece_D%27J_Pancake). There are links to a few of his stories there.

Also.. I'm noticing that a lotta authors are using snips of reviews from Chuck Palahniuk to boost their books. No idea how, but I totally had that guy mixed up with J.G. Ballard who wrote Crash (which I didn't like).. so now I need to read some Chuck I guess.
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: mrapplecastle on August 30, 2010, 06:29:02 PM
"the boy" in the movie totally pissed me off
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: hellbilly on August 30, 2010, 06:47:55 PM
"wat"
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: mrapplecastle on August 30, 2010, 06:57:07 PM
vigo morgeson's kid in the movie, was a total bitch, and needed a severe reality check
Title: Re: "dystopian" literature
Post by: Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith) on August 30, 2010, 07:08:01 PM
Privateers, by Ben Bova

http://www.amazon.com/Privateers-Ben-Bova/dp/0380793164

If you like realistic hard science fiction this is it.  It pictures a universe just 20 to 50 years in our future.  The governments of the world are anti tech luddites who want to leech of the productive capacity of the producers, and of course and the main character is a motivated entrepreneur.

This book basically creates the universe Bova uses for many of the rest of his books like Mars, Titan, Jupiter, Venus, Mercury, etc.  I liked it, but it's not as hard hitting as Fahrenheit 451 or 1984.


Fallen Angels, by Larry Niven

"Reeling under a new ice age, the lunatic fringe of the environmental movement controls the US government. Abandoned by Earth, the space colonies replenish their air by scoop-ships diving into the atmosphere - but Alex and Gordon's ship was hit by a missile, and they are now wanted dead or alive."

"their take on the environmentally friendly United States is both mildly amusing and utterly chilling, a world where science is seen as just another form of magic rammed down everyone's throat by "white, heterosexual males" (hey!) and superstition and "conservation" are the order of the day. You sit there and chuckle about the characters are acting so silly . . . until you go read the newspaper and hear the latest reaction to the latest research."

http://www.amazon.com/Fallen-Angels-Larry-Niven/dp/0743471814/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283209348&sr=1-8

This book is a MUST READ for any die hard hard-SF lover.  Dystopian future, pretty realistic universe that's very similar to our own.


Neither books are super hard hitting world changing mind blowers, but both take place in a dystopian universe and are very enjoyable reads.