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Author Topic: AM / FM Non-pirate radio  (Read 8813 times)

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ronpaul2012

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AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« on: December 21, 2008, 07:57:21 PM »

Can anyone help me figure out the potential costs and the difficulty in starting up an AM / FM station to re-broadcast liberty-minded podcasts such as this one?  I realize that power and FCC licensing are big issues but I would like to know just how much it might cost to say cover Denver?  I know that pirate and ham radio are options but I'd like to either reach a broad audience as in true AM / FM radio or nothing at all...  I'm know that satellite radio would be another option but I'm sure that there's a lot of costs and hurdles associated with that as well.

Thanks in advance,
Kenny
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KDus

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2009, 01:07:11 AM »

A couple hundred k to get engineering studies and permits to put a signal on the air. Then, a few hundred more to get everything in place for a real license. Yes, really. It would take years to get approval for a conditional permit. Then, you need to pay for tower space, STL link, remote control link, eas gear, and a studio facility. Even the small time operators spend thousands monthly for basic facilities overhead.  I've seen it take months and thousands of $ to get an existing STL license modified to change the mode and azimuth.
I doubt there's space in Denver. Any "spaces" are there to protect other signals. Next, you'll ask about a LP license. It's virtually the same process, but you get some breaks on the magnitude of the studies required by the FCC. However, the decision to grant a license is based heavily on what you intend to broadcast. Typically, only churches and schools get a license. Maybe you could get a 10W license for about $100k.  Or, they'll deny you and you're out 10s of thousands.
It would be easier to buy an existing station.
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libertylover

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2009, 09:21:22 AM »

What people still listen to the radio on an actual radio.  Crazy well I guess if you are trapped in a car.  All I listen to are podcasts anymore unless like I said trapped in a car and the radio is the only option. 

You can get a transmitter and broadcast for up to a 2mile radius without a license as long as there are no commercials whatsoever.  So if you wanted to rebroadcast Freetalk you would have to edit out all their little commercials in their podcast.  That would be a major pain.  Oh and you would also have to get Ian's permission to do that.  Not that I don't think he would let you.  I seriously considered doing that myself because within my 2 mile radius is a major University with thousands of young people.  But it would eat up hours upon hours of my time editing and then broadcasting.  Also the few hundred I would have to spend on a transmitter. 

My Libertarian friends and I decided to go the public access cable route and do our own show.  No equipment investment and we get to play with tv equipment.  Also not as huge a obligation as rebroadcasting Freetalk would be. 
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FTL_Ian

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2009, 11:33:08 AM »

Libertylover, not sure where you heard the 2-mile radius story, but it's nonsense.

KDus is right.  Getting a license is an incredibly difficult task.  For the amount you'd spend on application fees you could put up multiple Part 15 transmitters all around town and be totally FCC legal.
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libertylover

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2009, 08:17:11 AM »

I looked into it again it was a mistake in part 15 rules actually 200 meter radius.  Supposedly there will be a new Low Power FM window open by the FCC for new non-profit / educational / non-commercial stations.  However, they don't say when and the FCC webpage doesn't say how much it costs in fees.  I suspect it is expensive and not worth it considering you can't do anything to pay the piper.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-power_broadcasting

The FCC page is very unclear on how to apply for a LPFM broadcasting license but very clear on the fines should you get it wrong.
http://www.fcc.gov/mb/audio/lowpwr.html#PART

Still say it is easier to go with cable public broadcast.  If some sort of random video could be generated for Free talk live.  A creative person could create a weekly highlights cable show for broadcast on public access.  But again it would have to be commercial free and a person would have to be willing to volunteer their time to edit it.  Might actually be worth the publicity for someone at free talk live to make such a audio file available every week.   The public broadcast around here are generally sectioned off in 30 min. shows.
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kalmia

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2009, 01:03:32 PM »

Just do it.  It's only a few $hundred for basic equipment.  What are they going to do if you have commercials?  Tell you to turn it off?

KDus

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2009, 08:53:26 PM »

Here's a good explanation of the real Part 15 limits. http://www.gate.net/~advradio/fcc.html

Here's a guy near me that freely admits on his signal covers a large area and uses a 3 element beam; since 07!! AND, he has the BALLS to call it "Certified" by the FCC. http://www.palmsradio.com/fm.html

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TimeLady Victorious

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2009, 12:38:02 AM »

Here's a good explanation of the real Part 15 limits. http://www.gate.net/~advradio/fcc.html

Here's a guy near me that freely admits on his signal covers a large area and uses a 3 element beam; since 07!! AND, he has the BALLS to call it "Certified" by the FCC. http://www.palmsradio.com/fm.html



for the money to get that put together I could probably buy a few hours' programming on WBCQ for a long time...
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Sam Gunn (since nobody got Admiral Naismith)

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 02:51:05 AM »

Here's a good explanation of the real Part 15 limits. http://www.gate.net/~advradio/fcc.html

Here's a guy near me that freely admits on his signal covers a large area and uses a 3 element beam; since 07!! AND, he has the BALLS to call it "Certified" by the FCC. http://www.palmsradio.com/fm.html


I've listened to that station before, it's pretty good.
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sillyperson

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009, 08:00:53 AM »

What about that caller a few weeks ago from Liberty Radio 1710? He claimed that with 'proper grounding' (like using a pile driver to get iron rods 20 feet into the ground) he was getting 8 miles' AM coverage with legal Part-15

I'm intrigued by this and am serious about setting something up in Manchester & Concord if i can get more solid info.

KDus

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2009, 05:28:49 PM »

What about that caller a few weeks ago from Liberty Radio 1710? He claimed that with 'proper grounding' (like using a pile driver to get iron rods 20 feet into the ground) he was getting 8 miles' AM coverage with legal Part-15

I'm intrigued by this and am serious about setting something up in Manchester & Concord if i can get more solid info.
You get more range with AM, but you're still restricted in various way. The catch is, if the TX is "certified", then they'd have to prove you modified it in some way. Creating a good ground system, isn't illegal, but radiating too much field stregnth; is. The FCC would be admiting they're fallable to accuse you of illegal operation while using a system they approved.
BTW, it is copper rods you want.
At (most) AM tower sites, there is an elaborate mesh of copper rods, straps, and wire, buried an inch or so, that extends as far as possible;  hundreds of feet around the site.
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sillyperson

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009, 06:24:58 PM »

if the TX is "certified", then they'd have to prove you modified it in some way.
That sounds pretty reasonable.

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Re: AM / FM Non-pirate radio
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2010, 10:08:28 AM »

8 miles from a single 100mw Part 15 transmitter off a 3 meter radiator.....HA!

I guess anyone will believe anything said on the radio these days...pirate or legit.  :lol:

Do the math. It is not possible to get 8 miles out of a single 100mw transmitter no matter what kind of ground system you got. Even with a perfect 100 percent conducting ground (dirt), at best your gonna maybe get 2, possibly 3...but 8....not.

However, you CAN get 8 miles coverage with multiple 100mw transmitters that are synced together, such as how the Rangemaster units can be combined to extend coverage.

Sometimes when it sounds too good to be true...it actually is too good to be true. Let the engineering tell the truth.


RFB
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