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Free Talk Live => The Polling Pit => Topic started by: AlexLibman on August 10, 2007, 04:43:01 PM

Title: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: AlexLibman on August 10, 2007, 04:43:01 PM
This poll does not address the question of development stages of the fetus, the health of the mother, and other complex points, just the question of jurisdiction.

If you self-identify as "pro-choice", as most of people on this forum probably do, please only check the first item.  (Or maybe reading this poll has blurred the lines between those two popular labels?)

If self-identify as "pro-life", please check all entities that you believe should be able to prevent a woman from getting an abortion (based on whatever legal or moral rationalization they may have), or to sue / punish her and/or the abortion doctor afterwards.

If you only pick #2-3, you're not a prohibitionist "pro-lifer" by my definition, you just don't like abortion and/or you just support parent's rights.  The same might apply to #4 (and possibly even #5) as right of contract - if the parties involved made an agreement (possibly even verbal) to follow a certain moral code that excludes the possibility of abortion, then by having an abortion the woman might be considered guilty of breach of contract, but not a crime.

If I understand Ron Paul's "pro-life" position correctly, then he would have only checked the "state / sub-national government" one and nothing below it, which means in a Ron Paul utopia anyone would be able to travel across state lines to get an abortion.  As far as I know, all Democrats (and Don Ghuliani) would check nothing below the fifth option, while all remaining Republicans want the eight option (federal ban).
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Ed on August 10, 2007, 04:51:53 PM
Why can't you be pro-choice and still want her to abide by her conscience?
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Zhwazi on August 10, 2007, 05:10:49 PM
(http://content.onlineagency.com/sites/38289/images/full_mb00191.jpg)
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: AlexLibman on August 10, 2007, 05:24:10 PM
Why can't you be pro-choice and still want her to abide by her conscience?

Of course you can.  I'm sorry if my wording of option #2 caused confusion, I meant it as a "pro-lifers against government prohibition" sorta thing, using hellfire and brimstone and social ostracism instead of the courts to oppose abortion.

Since some people already voted for that option before I rephrased it, I've reset the poll so the 3 people who voted would have to vote again.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: wtfk on August 10, 2007, 08:34:33 PM
LMFAO!  I just love seeing "baby-daddy" written out...
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: bonerjoe on August 10, 2007, 10:17:07 PM
Nobody else thinks the father has any rights? Odd.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: YixilTesiphon on August 11, 2007, 12:55:34 AM
Conscience and municipal. She can always go to a county where they don't consider fetuses people.

For the record, I'm only opposed to abortion after the baby can feel pain.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Zhwazi on August 11, 2007, 06:10:58 AM
Interesting results, so far. I'm gonna go with, if you make a baby, have the baby and stop listening to the pro-choice arguments, because those arguments are ridiculous. Yer not having a little blob of jelly, ladies...yer having a "Baby". Accept the responsibility!
How is having an abortion not accepting the responsibility?

If I let some strawberries get moldy, do I have to eat the moldy strawberries to accept responsibility or do I have to not eat anything to accept responsibility or can I eat something else to accept responsibility?

There are other responsible courses of action than "Have the baby", and "have an abortion" is one of them.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: phantomofroute66 on August 11, 2007, 08:46:14 AM
Very interesting mix of opinions.  It's presumptious to assume that any group of people, no matter how "like-minded" they are, are going to be able to reach a consensus on this issue.  Keeping the government out of it is a good idea, though.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: MobileDigit on August 11, 2007, 11:25:44 AM
Nobody else thinks the father has any rights? Odd.

You think he does?


I'm only opposed to abortion after the baby can feel pain.

Why?
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: bonerjoe on August 11, 2007, 02:49:29 PM
Nobody else thinks the father has any rights? Odd.

You think he does?

His genes, his property.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: MobileDigit on August 11, 2007, 03:27:13 PM
If you carve a stick and throw it into my yard that doesn't mean you can rightfully come onto my property to get it.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: bonerjoe on August 11, 2007, 03:30:50 PM
If you carve a stick and throw it into my yard that doesn't mean you can rightfully come onto my property to get it.

A stick isn't human.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: MobileDigit on August 11, 2007, 03:34:46 PM
So?
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: bonerjoe on August 11, 2007, 03:39:59 PM
So?

...
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Ed on August 11, 2007, 03:49:47 PM
Whirrr clank doop be doop boop.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: MobileDigit on August 11, 2007, 03:50:19 PM
You think if someone throws a human in your yard he can rightfully come onto your property to get it?
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: bonerjoe on August 11, 2007, 03:53:46 PM
You think if someone throws a human in your yard he can rightfully come onto your property to get it?

Why not.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Ed on August 11, 2007, 03:55:21 PM
You think if someone throws a human in your yard he can rightfully come onto your property to get it?

Absolutely, and if you tried to shoot me for it I'd have my guns ready to blow your fucking head off.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Zhwazi on August 11, 2007, 04:59:00 PM
You think if someone throws a human in your yard he can rightfully come onto your property to get it?
Yes. You don't own the space, you own the grass and the house. As long as they do it without damaging your fence, grass, house, etc there's nothing wrong with going onto somebody else's property to get a stick or a human or something.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Zhwazi on August 11, 2007, 05:09:27 PM
they are destroying the little dignity that this human race ever had to begin with.
What the hell is "dignity"?
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: The Muslim Agorist on August 12, 2007, 03:58:32 AM
I also voted for the rights of the husband. But I would caveat that with the requirement of the original sex act being consensual. In the event of rape, or deliberately compromising a contraceptive, I think he's waved his rights. The rights of the husband are necessary because there is a responsibility upon the husband. And I think that when a woman has consensual sex with that person, she has consented to his rights regarding the outcome.

I think like a pro lifer... but I think the government should stay out of it... so in that sense I'm pro choice.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: dalebert on August 12, 2007, 08:09:38 AM
The rights of the husband are necessary because there is a responsibility upon the husband.
too

Therein lies the problem. Anyone who is pro-choice presumably believes a parent can absolve themselves of any responsibility to the potential child. By their reasoning, men should be able to have abortions too. It's a much simpler procedue. He just signs three copies of a document, one for him, one for her, and one with a third party arbitrator that says "I resolve myself of all rights to and responsibility for said child" and walks away. The child is now legally dead to him and he has no hopes of even getting visitation rights.

I in fact do believe parents should be able to absolve themselves of responsibility and allow charitable people or organizations to take over care for a child. Whether a particular act of abortion is murder seems to depend on the viability of the fetus, but I suppose I'm technically pro-choice because I don't think the government should get involved. But then I don't think the government should get involved in anything. *shrug*
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: MobileDigit on February 06, 2008, 02:20:09 PM
You think if someone throws a human in your yard he can rightfully come onto your property to get it?
Yes. You don't own the space, you own the grass and the house. As long as they do it without damaging your fence, grass, house, etc there's nothing wrong with going onto somebody else's property to get a stick or a human or something.

I guess I just take the hardline property rights view that any use whatsoever of another's property without consent is a violation of his right to use it, regardless of whether damage occurs.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Laetitia on February 06, 2008, 07:57:08 PM
Is the standard parental consent age for abortion really any female under 18?

That seems high. I though it was same as the age of consent for sex, 15-16.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Alex Libman on October 28, 2008, 11:33:01 PM
Bump...

There are stupid abortion polls being posted, perhaps this one, which is my favorite, should be revived...
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Taors on October 29, 2008, 07:00:52 AM
Bump...

There are stupid abortion polls being posted, perhaps this one, which is my favorite, should be revived...

Perhaps not?

If there's already a fucking thread about the subject matter, that's recent, why are you bumping this one? Fuck off.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Alex Libman on October 29, 2008, 07:45:14 AM
If there's already a fucking thread about the subject matter, that's recent, why are you bumping this one?

Because mine isn't retarded.


Fuck off.

See, that's exactly why I help Ukrainian mobsters with their visa issues.  The more hardcore murderers owe you a favor, the more you enjoy it when some punk kid on the Internets tells you to "fuck off".  Oh, the possibilities...
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Taors on October 29, 2008, 01:14:40 PM
If there's already a fucking thread about the subject matter, that's recent, why are you bumping this one?

Because mine isn't retarded.


Fuck off.

See, that's exactly why I help Ukrainian mobsters with their visa issues.  The more hardcore murderers owe you a favor, the more you enjoy it when some punk kid on the Internets tells you to "fuck off".  Oh, the possibilities...


Oh?

This is exactly the kind of talk that got John Hansen banned the first time.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Alex Libman on October 29, 2008, 01:21:51 PM
Gonna go crying to mommy?
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: NHArticleTen on October 29, 2008, 02:36:24 PM
The rights of the husband are necessary because there is a responsibility upon the husband.
too

Therein lies the problem. Anyone who is pro-choice presumably believes a parent can absolve themselves of any responsibility to the potential child. By their reasoning, men should be able to have abortions too. It's a much simpler procedue. He just signs three copies of a document, one for him, one for her, and one with a third party arbitrator that says "I resolve myself of all rights to and responsibility for said child" and walks away. The child is now legally dead to him and he has no hopes of even getting visitation rights.

I in fact do believe parents should be able to absolve themselves of responsibility and allow charitable people or organizations to take over care for a child. Whether a particular act of abortion is murder seems to depend on the viability of the fetus, but I suppose I'm technically pro-choice because I don't think the government should get involved. But then I don't think the government should get involved in anything. *shrug*


this

Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: Taors on October 29, 2008, 06:09:40 PM
Gonna go crying to mommy?


To quote my favorite transexual, "you wish".
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: DontTreadOnMike on October 29, 2008, 09:57:41 PM
As a Christian I'm against abortion. As a liberty-minded person I'm against legislating my anti-abortion beliefs on to people. Christians teach their kids not to gossip, lie, covet, etc. without advocating laws against those actions. I don't see why they can't do the same thing with the subject of abortion.

Did Jesus lobby the Roman Senate to pass laws that require people to act like Christians? No. He just said, "This is the way I live. It would be good if everyone followed my example. Now choose for yourselves."

The reason everyone hates the church is because in modern times they've been trying to outlaw abortion, profanity, drinking, gay marriage, etc.

It's why I don't go to a church anymore.
Title: Re: A Questionnaire For "Pro-Lifers"
Post by: DontTreadOnMike on October 29, 2008, 10:00:37 PM
If there's already a fucking thread about the subject matter, that's recent, why are you bumping this one?

Because mine isn't retarded.


Fuck off.

See, that's exactly why I help Ukrainian mobsters with their visa issues.  The more hardcore murderers owe you a favor, the more you enjoy it when some punk kid on the Internets tells you to "fuck off".  Oh, the possibilities...


''Wat'' a douche.