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Author Topic: Sick cat killing pics  (Read 11253 times)

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Mort

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2008, 10:27:30 AM »

Felines in the wild do something pretty similar to an animal every time they eat, and sometimes just for fun.  A tiger, leopard, or some other large cat named after an Apple operating system would do that to you given a chance, and so would any household cat if it was hungry enough, and/or if you were small enough.  Risk of being tortured to death by a bigger animal is a price you pay for being alive, and even more so for being domesticated.  Domestication isn't all balls of string and kitty litter, it's a two way street!

I would never use what animals do in the wild as justification for what humans should do to animals.  You can pretend you're a lion if you want to, but I prefer to be a human being. 

Rillion, I'm right there with you, believe me, but we eat mutilated animals daily - or, atleast, I do. These pictures are just another product - a sick twisted product, but still. I love cats and dogs and cute furry things but they don't have the same rights as you and I.

I gotta go, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this Rillion. Is there a case for defending animals from this kind of mistreatment?
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Rillion

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #16 on: October 29, 2008, 11:01:56 AM »

And what is a human being?  Oops, you can't answer that question scientifically, you just declared science to be immoral.  Now all you need is a creation fairy tale of some sort, and you'll have yourself a religion.

If you think that decrying the gratuitous torture of an animal is the same thing as saying that science is immoral, then I don't think we can have a rational conversation.  I don't know any scientists who torture animals for fun, or who would endorse such a thing.  Nor do I know any scientists who think that if non-human animals do something, that means it's okay for us to do it.  That confusion is well known to evolutionary psychologists, however, and is referred to as the naturalistic fallacy.   

Rillion, I'm right there with you, believe me, but we eat mutilated animals daily - or, atleast, I do. These pictures are just another product - a sick twisted product, but still. I love cats and dogs and cute furry things but they don't have the same rights as you and I.

I gotta go, but I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this Rillion. Is there a case for defending animals from this kind of mistreatment?

I think the problem is that you're playing fast and loose with the idea of "mutilating" animals, and the notion of rights.  I don't think that killing an animal and mutilating it are necessarily the same thing.  The term "mutilation" implies that you're destroying something for the sake of destroying it.  If you're killing an animal for food, however, it's not about destroying it-- it's about eating it.  Truly "mutilated" animals would be unfit to eat, I imagine.  If a hunter wants venison for dinner, he shoots a deer.  He does not take the deer home and torture it for kicks until it eventually dies. 

Also-- you can be opposed to torturing animals without believing that they have the same rights that we do.  Isn't the fact that torture causes suffering enough to oppose it?  Being human means having a greater capacity for suffering-- since we know all about death, and we have the ability to fear it-- but it doesn't mean that no other animal can suffer as well.  It's easier to feel compassion for cute and fluffy animals, true, but I try to be as consistent as possible.  When there's a conversation about someone abusing their pet and the talk turns to how long that person should be in prison, I'm the first one to come riding in with comments about how animals in factory farms do suffer as well, and our double standards about what is okay to do to which animals based mainly on familiarity and cuteness.  But that doesn't mean it's okay to do anything you want to an animal merely because it's not human. 

The notion of an entity having rights without being able to respect the rights of others is a point of contention for libertarians-- it forces them into strange positions.  I am of the position that it's possible for there to be "moral patients" as opposed to "moral actors."  Moral patients would include small children, the severely mentally retarded, people in a vegetative state, and animals of a certain cognitive capacity.  Torturing any of these beings is unethical, because it causes them to suffer.  It doesn't matter if they are not able to afford the same consideration to others-- their capacity for suffering is what counts.  Moral actors have a responsibility not to cause that suffering, even if they can't expect the same consideration to be given to them.  That doesn't mean that the moral patients have all of the same rights as the moral actors-- it wouldn't make sense to give a cat (or a small child, or severely retarded person) property rights, or the freedom of speech.  But it does mean that the basic right to a life free from sadistic attack should be preserved. 

How to resolve this legally, as opposed to morally?  Sorry, can't really help you there.  Theoretically, I view pets as property.  But realistically, I would beat the shit out of somebody who did this to a kitten, with no reservations whatsoever. 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 11:12:13 AM by Rillion »
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John Shaw

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #17 on: October 29, 2008, 11:14:56 AM »

Rill, I'm not trying to be funny or anything, but you're talking to a person who claims to be a cop. He probably can't distinguish between sadism and clinical thought. I mean, when you have a person who, by nature, takes pleasure from doing harm, they probably can't distinguish between killing an animal as a dispassionate means to an important end and sadistically torturing an animal for nothing more than the emotional experience that only a sadist can relate to.

Remember, police and feds stomp cats to death, shoot dogs, and punch pregnant women in the stomach on a disturbingly regular basis.   
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Alex Libman

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #18 on: October 29, 2008, 11:17:01 AM »

Which form do I need to fill out to beg to get Dictator Rillion's gracious permission to kill an animal?  The four-page essay I need to include on why this killing fits Rillion's subjective taste - is that single-space or double-space?  Double space, size 14, Courier New font, no paragraph tabs?  OK, good.  Now, about scientific validity, it's just a theory at this point, see?  I can't prove anything without trying it, that's what I'm here for.  Well, there are many types of brain cancer, and thousands of monkeys would be needed to test them all, but...  How can I prove I'm not just making it all up for my own amusement just to torture animals, I don't know, maybe I am...  After all, microwaving live monkeys isn't pretty, and the autopsies we perform afterwords are a bloody mess: time is money, see?  Yeah, the odds of me finding a revolutionary way to treat brain cancer weren't that high anyway.  Gulp...  Yeah, maybe you're right, the red tape is too much, I'll abandon the experiment.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 11:21:16 AM by Alex Libman »
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Rillion

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #19 on: October 29, 2008, 11:25:01 AM »

Which form do I need to fill out to beg to get Dictator Rillion's gracious permission to kill an animal?  The four-page essay I need to include on why this killing fits Rillion's subjective taste - is that single-space or double-space?  Double space, size 14, Courier New font, no paragraph tabs?  OK, good.  Now, about scientific validity, it's just a theory at this point, see?  I can't prove anything without trying it, that's what I'm here for.  Well, there are many types of brain cancer, and thousands of monkeys would be needed to test them all, but...  How can I prove I'm not just making it all up for my own amusement just to torture animals, I don't know, maybe I am...  After all, microwaving live monkeys isn't pretty, and the autopsies we perform afterwords are a bloody mess: time is money, see?  Yeah, the odds of me finding a revolutionary way to treat brain cancer weren't that high anyway.  Gulp...  Yeah, maybe you're right, the red tape is too much, I'll abandon the experiment.

My suspicions are confirmed. 
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 11:26:34 AM by Rillion »
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Alex Libman

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #20 on: October 29, 2008, 11:51:45 AM »

Why, do you like to masturbate to the imagery of human beings dying from brain tumors who might have had their life expectancy increased from the additional research that would have been done in a free market, where millions of monkeys could be bred and killed just for this purpose?

OK, fine, I will not hide behind "science".  You know how they used to kill exotic animals for fun in ancient Rome, right?  (The state even subsidized it, and I'm sure they would today if public sentiment was the same - anything to increase their grip on power.)  Well, the money from kitten torture shows in local kitten torture bars would be a net benefit to the economy.  Imagine a guy, Loser Joe, who is a loser.  Nothing motivates him to get off his butt... except kitten torture!  So Joe works more hours to pay for his kitten torture hobby - let's say he works shoveling shit in the sewer.  With more people willing to do this job, the cost of shit shoveling labor goes down, and so does Rillion's sewer bill.  Yaay kitten torture!
« Last Edit: October 29, 2008, 11:59:34 AM by Alex Libman »
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Mort

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2008, 08:41:31 PM »

Rill, I'm not trying to be funny or anything, but you're talking to a person who claims to be a cop. He probably can't distinguish between sadism and clinical thought. I mean, when you have a person who, by nature, takes pleasure from doing harm, they probably can't distinguish between killing an animal as a dispassionate means to an important end and sadistically torturing an animal for nothing more than the emotional experience that only a sadist can relate to.

Remember, police and feds stomp cats to death, shoot dogs, and punch pregnant women in the stomach on a disturbingly regular basis.   

Cheap shot, and its just ludicrous to think that I "by nature" take pleasure from doing harm. Are you kidding me? Where is this coming from?!
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Russell Griswold

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2008, 11:33:32 PM »



I are not brain tumar!
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Alex Libman

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #23 on: October 29, 2008, 11:46:05 PM »

That facial expression isn't emotion similar to human emotion.  It's thousands of years of evolution by a species that would have been extinct by now if it wasn't for humanity's misguided pity.  Cats are a natural resource.  If we can burn them for fuel, so be it.
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Russell Griswold

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2008, 12:12:32 AM »

That facial expression isn't emotion similar to human emotion.  It's thousands of years of evolution by a species that would have been extinct by now if it wasn't for humanity's misguided pity.  Cats are a natural resource.  If we can burn them for fuel, so be it.


You must observe the whiskers, my lad.
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Alex Libman

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #25 on: October 30, 2008, 12:46:01 AM »

No.  The differences between human beings and kittens are very significant.  The differences between kittens and corn aren't.
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Russell Griswold

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2008, 01:03:05 AM »

No.  The differences between human beings and kittens are very significant.  The differences between kittens and corn aren't.

Ah, yes! Purple is indeed purple!
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Alex Libman

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2008, 01:08:01 AM »

What's purple?
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John Shaw

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2008, 01:55:10 AM »

Some fucker messes with my cats and he dies. Fucking period.
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Alex Libman

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Re: Sick cat killing pics
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2008, 02:03:41 AM »

Some fucker messes with my cats and he dies. Fucking period.

Obviously.  Property is property.
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