What is Government?

[Tom Morris]

I was reading Nozick today for my political philosophy course. Just happened across this great description of government by P. J. Proudhon:

To be GOVERNED is to be watched, inspected, spied upon, directed, law-driven, numbered, regulated, enrolled, indoctrinated, preached at, controlled, checked, estimated, valued, censured, commanded, by creatures who have neither the right nor the wisdom nor the virtue to do so. To be GOVERENED is to be at every operation, at every transaction noted, registered, counted, taxed, stamped, measured, numbered, assessed, licensed, authorized, admonished, prevented, forbidden, reformed, corrected, punished. It is, under pretext of public utility, and in the name of the general interest, to be placed under contribution, drilled, fleeced, exploited, monopolized, extorted from, squeezed, hoaxed, robbed; then, at the slightest resistance, the first word of complaint, to be repressed, fined, vilified, harrassed, hunted down, abused, clubbed, disarmed, bound, choked, imprisoned, judged, condemned, shot, deported, sacrificed, sold, betrayed; and to crown all, mocked, ridiculed, derided, outraged, dishonored. That is government; that is its justice; that is its morality.

(From General Idea of the Revolution in the Nineteeth Century translated by John Beverly Robinson and published by Freedom Press in London, 1923)

What a great description. Perhaps I should make a set of Liberty Flashcards. You could play them like Top Trumps, and this one would kick everything else in the ass.

[Gabo]

Government is like the mafia, except the mafia doesn't parade around demanding praise for their thuggery.

[InnerPhalanx]

What is Government?

Baby don't hurt me,
don't hurt me,
no more.

*begins thinking of ways to make this into a ytmnd*

[mikehz]

A governor on a machine limits the action of the machine so that it doesn't exceed a certain speed or power level. A government in society limits the actions on individuals living within that society. Proper government may limit, never require, actions among individuals. If it issues dictates, then it is no longer a "government" but a dictatorship.

The issue then becomes one of which actions government may limit. Without going into all the details of it, most libertarians would agree that government may properly limit only those actions involving more than one party, in which at least one of the parties is not a willing participant. 

[Brokor]

I like George Washington's example of government:

"Government is not reason, it is not eloquence - it is force.  Government is like fire - a handy servant, but a dangerous/fearful master."



Anarchists Version: "Government is like fire, a dangerous servant and a fearsome master. Therefore,
we should avoid it entirely, as we do all forms of combustion."

[MobileDigit]

The Correct Anarchist's Version: "Government is literally force. It violates everyone's rights daily, and people seem to regard it as a necessity. The belief in the need for Government runs deep, as most men are barbarian, and enjoy dominating others, and exploiting their wealth 'for the common good'. The anarchist is only being intellectually honest when concluding that Government is unnecessary, and evil."

[ladyattis]

Who gives a shit?

-- Bridget the evil minarchist!

[MobileDigit]

Who gives a shit?

-- Bridget the evil minarchist!

People who like being intellectually honest.

[ladyattis]

Who gives a shit?

-- Bridget the evil minarchist!

People who like being intellectually honest.

I am intellectually honest. You just hate the fact that my view of human interaction being the formal basis of law. So either show me where human interaction CANNOT form law, or you must form a new theory of human interaction. No Misean bullshit either, Apriorism has been refuted numerous times.

-- Bridget

[MobileDigit]

I am intellectually honest.

dis-

You just hate the fact that my view of human interaction being the formal basis of law.

Anarchy is not absence of rule, it is absence of rulers.

No Misean bullshit either, Apriorism has been refuted numerous times.

Positivism doesn't work when the objects have free will.

[qindao]

Anarchy is not absence of rule, it is absence of rulers.
=Wonderful ... what does it mean?

Positivism doesn't work when the objects have free will.
..zynical, isn't it?
j.

[MobileDigit]

=Wonderful ... what does it mean?

That solely because there is law does not mean there is not anarchy.

..zynical, isn't it?

No, it's intellectually honest.

[Bushwacker]

Here's my original 2 cents:

"Government is an avenue by which the immoral and ambitious men of the world initiate long-term tyranny and widespread vice to compensate for ther short dicks and narrow spines." -Me

BTW, Thought this thread was so cool that I quoted some of the entries people made in my blog, The Liberty Lamp. Good work guys!

[ladyattis]

I am intellectually honest.

dis-

You just hate the fact that my view of human interaction being the formal basis of law.

Anarchy is not absence of rule, it is absence of rulers.

Sureeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

No Misean bullshit either, Apriorism has been refuted numerous times.

Positivism doesn't work when the objects have free will.

I'm not a Positivist, I'm an Objectivist and I also study Popper's philosophy. So take the Apriorism and stuff it.

-- Bridget

[Brokor]

I would rather pay mind to Ladyattis' posts than Mobiledigit's on this subject.