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Author Topic: A Christian Refutation of Gene Amondson--the Prohibitionist (An Old Show)  (Read 1569 times)

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CanuckForLiberty

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The FTL archives are a gold mine.  I was listening to some older shows in the archives, and I found the one with the Prohibition Party candidate, Gene Amondson was on. It was far back enough that probably many of you haven't heard it.

I find it pretty ridiculous that Gene would propose to reinstate alcohol prohibition...  Let alone run a whole political party based on that position.  Anyways, I wanted to comment specifically on an area that the hosts did not challenge Gene on. He made comments on Jesus, the Bible, and alcohol. The hosts, understandibly did not further question him on this.  I would like to make a post here (hopefully somewhat brief) to just provide a good, reusable response to people like Gene Amondson.

I understand many libertarians and liberty-oriented people are not Christian and many do not recognize the Bible as God's Word. I happen to be one that does. However, I figure I'll make a few comments here that may be useful in a number of different ways, including so that non-Christian libertarians have a good answer to people like Gene who try to use the Bible to support their position on prohibition. The Bible, though it does outline many of the grave dangers of alcohol, does not in any sense support prohibition, nor does it outright forbid the consumption or sale of alcohol. Gene's position on alcohol and the Bible is quite "half baked". He claimed that when Jesus turned water into wine, it was not alcoholic wine.  Furthermore, he asserted that the Jews of Jesus' day would have stoned him if he created wine from water, that they were that against alcohol.

1. His assertion that the wine that Jesus made was not alcoholic is ridiculous and can not be supported by the Biblical text.  This is particularly clear from the fact that the host of the feast makes a particular comment which makes Gene's interpretation of the text impossible. The host of the feast where Jesus turned the water to wine in John 2 said: "Everyone serves the good wine first, and when people have drunk freely, then the poor wine. But you [Jesus] have kept the good wine until now".  What meaning could this possibly have if  Jesus was serving a non-alcoholic drink? The obvious implication is that Jesus gave the most strongly alcoholic (ie. highest quality) wine towards the end, instead of doing what most hosts would do, decrease the quality as people become more intoxicated.

2. Gene's comment that the Jews would have stoned Jesus for making alcohol is also off base.  The Jews used alcoholic wine for many ceremonies and rituals.  In an early writing of the leader, Moses, we find the statement that wine can be presented as an "aroma" to God.  And in another part of the Old Testament scriptures, we actually find a statement that wine cheers the heart of God and man!  There are at least several passages which speak how wine is a gift from God to man. In fact, it wasn't until the period between the Old and New Testaments that the Jews began to cut the wine a bit with water, after the tradition of the Greeks. The frequency of vineyards in the parables (stories) that Jesus shows us that wine was a pretty big industry in the area.  Also, the Jews were so radically anti-prohibitionist that EVEN THEIR HYMN/SONG BOOK, the book of Psalms (which Christians also recognize as theirs), states that God gave wine to "gladden the heart of man"!   There was a thing in that time called "The Nazarite Vow", but that is a totally different matter because that was a vow people *VOLUNTARILY* joined that included a restriction against drinking alcohol. The fact that The Nazarite Vow (the exception) even existed shows that as a rule, the Jews of the time were comfortable with the idea of drinking alcohol.

3. Luke 7:34 says "The Son of Man has come eating and drinking, and you say, ‘Look at him! A glutton and a drunkard..!’". This shows that Jesus likely did drink alcohol himself, at least enough that his enemies were able to launch the false accusation that he was a "drunkard".  It would be extremely odd to accuse someone of being a drunkard if they dogmatically refused to drink any alcohol whatsoever.

4. Further, early Christian history attests to the fact that prohibition is NOT the natural position of the Christian church. The Church has historically been against alcohol's abuse, but not its use. Apostle Paul wrote to a fellow leader to use a little bit of wine for a stomach ailment.  Cyprian, an early church leader who died in 258AD wrote strongly against those who wanted to replace the wine with water in the ceremony of the Lord's supper (or Eucharist).  John Chrysostom, who died some time around 400 AD, and was a very well known preacher, called wine a "work of God".  

5. But even as you proceed into more recent American and European church history,  you find scantly an evidence of prohibitionism until the late 1800's or 1900's.  The well known protestant Reformers of Europe such as John Calvin and Martin Luther had no problem with the use and sale of alcohol. John Calvin was even paid his ministerial wages in wine  (an early swiss currency?) at one point in time and also defended the moderate drinking of alcohol.
 German Reformer Martin Luther was particularly clear in his attack of the prohibitionist mindset: "Do you suppose that abuses are eliminated by destroying the object which is abused? Men can go wrong with wine and women. Shall we then prohibit and abolish women? The sun, the moon, and the stars have been worshipped. Shall we then pluck them out of the sky?"

Even the Puritans, who are often looked as being "stodgy" and intolerant were considerably more tolerant than Gene appears to be. Cotton Mather, who was by no means a very tolerant man on a number of different issues was VERY respectful and supportive of people who sold alcohol. He said the following to an owner of an alehouse about his profession: "It [being an alehouse owner] is an honest and a lawful, though it may not be a very desirable employment, that you have undertaken: you may glorify God in your employment, if you will, and benefit the town considerably."  Imagine that! Gene wants to close down the alehouses, but Cotton Mather said that the alehouses can "glorify God" and "benefit the town considerably". And in Massachusetts in the 1600's, the heartland of Puritanism, when church leaders were ordained, there is recorded to have been beer provided.  Rev. Francis Higginson, a Salem minister, made the voyage to the New World in 1629 aboard the Talbot. "To acclimatize himself as comfortably as possible, he imported cargo of five tuns of beer and 20 gallons of brandy."

As a whole, the Bible takes a pretty balanced view on the question of alcohol, providing plenty of warnings, but also encouraging its use. Most Christians through history have not supported the prohibition mindset that Gene Amondson has. It is honorable and respectful for an individual Christian to decide they will not use alcohol, but it is not honorable for them to fight to have it banned.  The sum total of references in the Bible suggests that alcohol is a good thing which can be abused.  I think most people would recognise this as their position. However, Gene's handling of Jesus turning water into wine, shows that Gene is not willing to let the Bible speak for itself on the issue, but must twist the facts of the case to support his prohibitionist mindset. I figure I'd provide some of this information as an antidote to Gene Amondson's claims.

Anyways, I thought I would present some of this information to provide a critique of Gene's position from a Christian perspective. I believe Gene's position on alcohol prohibition can't stand up to scrutiny and has many weaknesses, one of the weaknesses of his position is his use (or misuse) of the Bible.  I've left out some additional information that would be helpful, just because I didn't want to make this message longer than it already is.  If anyone would like to get some additional information on this, please feel free to get a hold of me, I have additional quotes from Church history, etc.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2009, 10:23:08 PM by CanuckForLiberty »
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Dylboz

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I like Booze.
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MacFall

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I've never yet heard a good argument explaining how fermentation, a completely natural (and thus, God-made) process, could possibly be evil. I mean, it happens inside our bodies. And before refrigeration, fermentation of fruit and grain was necessary for the very survival of humanity. Alcohol is a preservative. And I bet the average Christian prohibitionist has no problem imbibing or injecting much worse substances for medical purposes.
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BonerJoe

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I've never yet heard a good argument explaining how fermentation, a completely natural (and thus, God-made) process, could possibly be evil.

How do you feel about homosexuality?
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Bill Brasky

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I've never yet heard a good argument explaining how fermentation, a completely natural (and thus, God-made) process, could possibly be evil.

How do you feel about homosexuality?

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