Stefan Molyneux in the Guardian

[Dylboz]

Because things (especially people) are not always as they should be.

Because parents teach their children how to behave, and the vast majority believe in the power and validity of the state.

Your answer was a non answer, and an evasion, and you know it.

I don't take issue with that at all, I agree, that's what I meant with my comment, and that is not what I object to with respect to Stef and FDR. Certainly, I hope to imbue my children with a healthy distrust of the state on the basis of my authority, earned through personal experience and thoughtful reasoning. Anyway, I really do have to get back to work, but I will return later to respond to a few things. In the mean time, here's that link Liberating Minds - Freedomain Radio section. There you will find the letters from Stef telling bannies that they cannot be members and active posters at both sites. But there are no closed areas of the site, so you can read everything without creating an account.

[John Shaw]

I don't take issue with that at all, I agree, that's what I meant with my comment, and that is not what I object to with respect to Stef and FDR.

Well, that's the entire point of the family thing, so I think you're missing something.

Certainly, I hope to imbue my children with a healthy distrust of the state on the basis of my authority, earned through personal experience and thoughtful reasoning.

Good on you.

In the mean time, here's that link Liberating Minds - Freedomain Radio section. There you will find the letters from Stef telling bannies that they cannot be members and active posters at both sites. But there are no closed areas of the site, so you can read everything without creating an account.

I am going to go there, create an account, read, and then I am going to specifically go to the FDR chat room and ask if I am going to be banned because I have done so. If this is not the case, I am going to ask to to retract your statements on that point or accuse you of being a liar.

[Dylboz]

Fair enough.

[davann]

My brother pushed me out a second story window, broke my wrist, arm and leg. Once hit me in the head with a wooden baseball bat. Ya know what? I got over it and don't bitch about it later in life. Not that yer bitching and do claim to have a close relationship now. But that just shows that shit that happened years ago is better to be forgiven then held against family members for years.

Yeah, and if the government had done that to you?

What gives the people who claim to love you the right to do something that the government can't?

Does the claim of love give people the right to abuse?

Fine. The government loves you. I am the government. Bend the fuck over.


You wanna associate with people who beat you? Go for it.

Your sister is no longer chasing you around with a lighter and hair spray and my brother is not knocking me out with blows to the head. We all grew up. Siblings sometimes have issues while being raised. This is just the way of things. I always knew that if I got into a scap outside of the home with non family members my brother would be there in heart beat hitting the offender in the head to protect me. But that is beside the point.

To compare an individual with a mob that is goverment is a bad comparison. There is no reasoning with the mob, while given enough time and space it is possible with individuals. When you left the comfort of home, your sister did not hold the lighter and hair spray to your face and insist you continue speaking and seeing her. Yep, faulty comparison. 

[davann]

Oh, and just as a little mental exercise - I'm gonna edit your post.

My brother government pushed me out a second story window, broke my wrist, arm and leg. Once hit me in the head with a wooden baseball bat. Ya know what? I got over it and don't bitch about it later in life. Not that yer bitching and do claim to have a close relationship now. But that just shows that shit that happened years ago is better to be forgiven then held against family members government employees for years.

Still a faulty comparison. Two separate and distinctly different entities.

[John Shaw]

Your sister is no longer chasing you around with a lighter and hair spray and my brother is not knocking me out with blows to the head. We all grew up. Siblings sometimes have issues while being raised. This is just the way of things. I always knew that if I got into a scap outside of the home with non family members my brother would be there in heart beat hitting the offender in the head to protect me. But that is beside the point.

To compare an individual with a mob that is goverment is a bad comparison. There is no reasoning with the mob, while given enough time and space it is possible with individuals. When you left the comfort of home, your sister did not hold the lighter and hair spray to your face and insist you continue speaking and seeing her. Yep, faulty comparison. 

My sister and I are on speaking terms and are working out our problems, so none of your argument applies, frankly.

How about my parents, who were adults when they beat me? When I brought these issues up, they disappeared from my life. *Gone*

It's not a faulty comparison at all.

The guilty run away or became violent when exposed.

[John Shaw]

Oh, and just as a little mental exercise - I'm gonna edit your post.

My brother government pushed me out a second story window, broke my wrist, arm and leg. Once hit me in the head with a wooden baseball bat. Ya know what? I got over it and don't bitch about it later in life. Not that yer bitching and do claim to have a close relationship now. But that just shows that shit that happened years ago is better to be forgiven then held against family members government employees for years.

Still a faulty comparison. Two separate and distinctly different entities.

You learned how to interact with the latter from the former.

[What's the frequency, Kenneth?]

Wow, I've never listened to this guy's podcast, what about him pisses so many folk off?

He's pompous like Ian * 1000.

Also, when you call winner for my not responding to your wall of text? Yeah, it's because you aren't gonna put me to work like that. You make a lot of claims and have posted zero specific examples and zero links.

I'm not gonna do your work for you.

So you win.

GOD, I love this response!  I wish I'd used it a couple dozen times.

[John Shaw]

GOD, I love this response!  I wish I'd used it a couple dozen times.

Well, I'm learning, you know?

If someone asks me how people are gonna take care of the roads, or or what happens with scenario X or Y, I don't have to do the heavy lifting for them anymore. I'm not obligated to be put to work for every person who wants to throw a lifeboat scenario at me.

"Well, who's gonna take care of the roads?" - I dunno. I'm not a road guy. I don't worry about that any more than I worry about who's gonna take care of the Coca Cola.

"Who's gonna feed the poor?" - McDonalds and Smack Ramen, maybe? I dunno. I'm not in food service.

And so on.

[davann]

Oh, and just as a little mental exercise - I'm gonna edit your post.

My brother government pushed me out a second story window, broke my wrist, arm and leg. Once hit me in the head with a wooden baseball bat. Ya know what? I got over it and don't bitch about it later in life. Not that yer bitching and do claim to have a close relationship now. But that just shows that shit that happened years ago is better to be forgiven then held against family members government employees for years.

Still a faulty comparison. Two separate and distinctly different entities.

You learned how to interact with the latter from the former.

Do you interact the way your sister taught you to interact with the gov? Not that I can tell from what I have learned about you from your posts and a little bit of assumption. Let me explain. When you sister acted violently to you what was your end result action? I assume that you struck back as most siblings would do. Now, when the gov is up and trampling all over you what is your end result action? From your previous statements (in previous threads) you take an "avoid at all costs" sort of reaction. You do not strike back. You learned how to interact with the latter from different sources.

If I am correct in my thinking what is the reason for the different end actions?

[John Shaw]

Do you interact the way your sister taught you to interact with the gov?

I was talking about parents. I have stated clearly several times that I have not DeFoo'd my sister, because when I asked her to openly and honestly talk about our problems, she was positive and forthcoming. Why do you not understand this?

Let me explain. When you sister acted violently to you what was your end result action? I assume that you struck back as most siblings would do.

Yes. Because I had a chance of defending myself against another child. And again, my sister and I are on fairly good terms, because she was brave enough to face our mutual past.

Now, when the gov is up and trampling all over you what is your end result action? From your previous statements (in previous threads) you take an "avoid at all costs" sort of reaction. You do not strike back. You learned how to interact with the latter from different sources.

Absolutely. My parents. I hid from my parents. Yes. I ran away from that violence. No fucking doubt.

If I am correct in my thinking what is the reason for the different end actions?

There aren't any different end actions.

My sister didn't raise me. My parents did.

[Fluffer-Nutter]

I think that it is absurd to say that you will get banned from FDR if you visit limi. I have visited both often. I also think that it is absurd to stay in a relationship with someone if that relationship has any negative effect on you. You don't have to and there are many people out there who would be better suited to be an associate to you.I don't see why Stefan is being demonized for saying the same things that any therapist worth his or her salt would also say. If my family members are constantly discounting my ideals and trying to impose their ideals onto me, I should not associate with them. Family or not, they are people and we should CHOOSE positive people to associate with. It seems to me that the post that was posted here in this thread was an attempt of multiple people to railroad Stef's ideals on his own website. One guy's name was "bibleface." Obviously, Stef is open about his beliefs about what he calls, "superstition" I don't agree with him on those beliefs. But, those beliefs have nothing to do with our mutual desire for liberty.

[John Shaw]

They already backtracked on the liberatingminds forum and have created a circular logic scenario where no matter how I come in and post, I'm still wrong anyway.

but the FDR'ers can just tell him that he won't be banned because he is just doing this experiment or because they know he is a good guy, etc. and so he won't be banned and then you have to apologize, and for what?

There's no way to win the argument at this point, because if I post and don't get banned, it's only gonna be "Manipulation" anyway.


Nevertheless, no one gave a shit at the FDR forum about me posting or reading the liberatingminds forum. Some people asked why I'd bother. That was it.

Fuck it. I'm not gonna waste any more time fighting battles on other people's behalf.

[Fluffer-Nutter]

My experience with the LiMi forum has been that they are folks who have "taken their ball and gone home" or "thrown out on their ear" in another forum. They just whine and whine. There really isn't a lot of good discussions there.

[John Shaw]

I will say this, though:

Dylboz - If you are a member of FDR, your account will be deactivated if you visit LiMi

Yeah, that's a flat out fucking lie.