Tired of juvenile stunts misrepresenting the FSP. Canceled my AMP.

[FTL_Ian]

Also, if you are concerned I will misrepresent your opinions on air, you are welcome to call and express them personally.  Maybe you can convince the AMPlifiers to follow Denis' lead and show me just how bad FTL truly is for the liberty movement. 

[mport1]

After supporting FK financially, I've come to the same conclusion as many others that much of the FK activism will not be effective in achieving the end goal of liberty.  I don't think anybody here will be able to convince Ian of this though.  Many people have presented a lot of valid arguments against this type of activism, but he has rejected them.

I think he and some other FK activists are missing a crucial point in their line of thinking.  Just because you are engaging in activism that is completely moral and just does not mean that you are furthering the end goal of achieving a voluntary society.  There seems to be an idea that because all of the activism that has been performed in accordance with the NAP, that it is all great in advancing the cause of liberty and shouldn't be criticized.  Or there is the notion that because some people are going to get upset no matter what, you shouldn't judge or plan activism with public perception in mind.

However, civil disobedience, while completely right and moral, by itself does not necessarily advance the cause and may actually set it back.  Effective activism must take into account public perception to some extent if you want more people to embrace the ideas of liberty.  There is obviously no hard and fast rule about what is "good" vs. "bad" civil disobedience, but I don't think these questions are seriously considered by many of the activists.

Free Talk Live is still invaluable to the liberty movement though.  It gets the ideas of liberty out there to a huge number of people and attracts many people to the FSP.  It is a huge net benefit for the liberty movement.  I AMP at $50 a month and hope to up this in the future.  If you disagree with Ian on FK activism, don't let that dissuade you from AMPing.  In my opinion, FTL does a ton of good and is one of the best things to fund in the liberty movement.

[d_goddard]

The ladies over at Sex, Lies, and Anarchy seem to agree here:
http://nhcaptv.com/episode/216
Start at 26:15

[FTL_Ian]

Hi mport1,

I appreciate your continued support and am sorry you feel that I've rejected valid arguments regarding certain activism.  It's important to remember that not all activism is done for the purpose of persuading - some is done for the purpose of attracting.

Aside from that, as it turns out, people tend to disagree on what was "effective" activism.  So, one person likes one thing, another doesn't.  If you try to spend your time crafting the "perfect" activism that never offends anyone, you'll probably end up doing nothing.

I have seen activists listen to and incorporate critique and suggestions.  I certainly have.  I'm sorry you don't feel listened to.

[FTL_Ian]

The ladies over at Sex, Lies, and Anarchy seem to agree here:
http://nhcaptv.com/episode/216
Start at 26:15

Who disagrees with that?  Guess who is a supporter of the local homeless shelter?  When I was at the recent masquerade ball for said shelter, I had a great conversation with a local business owner who is very supportive of FK.  (As well as other positive conversations.)  Of course, that doesn't fit into your view on what's going on out here, so feel free to just dismiss that information.

[d_goddard]

Guess who is a supporter of the local homeless shelter?  When I was at the recent masquerade ball for said shelter, I had a great conversation with a local business owner who is very supportive

I commend you for those good, constructive actions.
I sanction you for your nonconstructive actions.

[FTL_Ian]

Apparently the local business owner commends me for the things you sanction me for.   

[Johnson]

What I want to know is why a word has to have exactly opposite meanings depending on whether it's a verb or a noun... and why you're both kind of misusing it, because in this case it's a verb.

[sandm000]

So is this whole thing being carefully choreographed behind the scenes?
1. Denis pretends to quit amping.
2. the boards blow up
3. ????
4. More people sign up to amp!!!

[Lothar]

With all due respect to FTL, this being FTL's board & all..  I'm surprised with all the differing opinions that there aren't more organizations out there to suit the varying tastes of the liberty minded.

One reason I've supported both Ian, and Denis, is because they do a lot more than most.  I encourage all others to implement what they think will help most, and would likely support your efforts as well.

[Cognitive Dissident]

With all due respect to FTL, this being FTL's board & all..  I'm surprised with all the differing opinions that there aren't more organizations out there to suit the varying tastes of the liberty minded.

One reason I've supported both Ian, and Denis, is because they do a lot more than most.  I encourage all others to implement what they think will help most, and would likely support your efforts as well.

If it were only that easy.  Unfortunately, blasting offensive activism over the radio waves has the effect of creating Republicans and Democrats who think the "libertarians" are hippies who like to crash town meetings and drink beer, jump on cop cars, smoke dope in front of children/in public, etc.  Note the hyperbole.  It's not mine.  It's built into the filter through which they'll look at "libertarians."

What so many people have tried to point out is:

1) CD, to work properly, has to create more friends than enemies.
2) An intelligent promoter of CD will choose to thoughtfully promote such CD that he has good reason to believe (such as feedback from a wide audience) is resonating positively with the audience.
3) When step two fails, it creates the impression that "I already know who those damned hippies are, and I want nothing to do with their type.  I certainly wouldn't want a society in which they were encouraged."

I hope that helps.

[SnuggleyJeff]

This thread is very interesting.  There is a lot of emotion on both sides.  I share the opinion that much of the activism, mostly the civil disobedience, is silly and doesn't achieve anything.  I therefore agree with Dennis, that it would be better to not report so heavily on these events.  

The reality is that FTL is the mainstream of liberty oriented media, so of course it's going to report these events, and continue discussing each one until the next one happens.  The show is popular because it is more sensational, than intellectual.    Unlike Dennis, I do not think that because I have an opinion which I am passionate about, that I should be listened to as if I were the producer of the show.  I still enjoy FTL, but there are more substantiative shows that are less popular.  

I have not become an AMP yet because I do not wish to fund the legal defense of people who go out of their way to get arrested.  It seems too much like a fund to pay for the medical expenses of people who like to poke bears. (I am now an AMP after realizing that I was mistaken in the above statement).

No offense is meant by these comments, I'm just weighing in.  

[FTL_Ian]

Hi SnugglyJeff.  Thanks for your thoughts.  I don't know what makes you think AMP money goes to legal defense funds - it does not.  AMP money goes to advertise, market, and promote FTL and LRN.FM.  LRN.FM includes some of those less-popular, more substantive shows that you enjoy.

[SnuggleyJeff]

Ian, I just realized last night that I was mistakenly combining AMP with the CD defense fund (I'm not sure if that's the exact name). 

BTW- good show last light.  Keep them coming.

[d_goddard]

I get a lot of messages like this, on FB, email, and IRL