This is why teachers should have guns in the classroom.

[Defendant]

It's my belief that according to state law, children and adults are legally allowed to carry at all schools in NH unless it is a private school and the school bans it. There is some debate as to whether federal law bans students and adults from carry at schools in NH and no one has pressed the issue so we aren't really sure what the courts would do.

I cannot think of any particular issue that makes it a good reason or not.

There is no debate as to whether Federal law prohibits firearms on public or private school property.

He is what happened. The federal government passed a law against it. The court throw out that law. The federal government came up with a much less encompassing law. That law doesn't apply in most places. However, since the gun laws are so lightly restricted in NH, there is some debate as to whether it applies in NH.

In NH, some towns don't have cops. So a police chief cannot issue carry permits. So the selectman have to do it. That is the issue in question. No person and lawyer combination has bothered to test the law in NH. I think the gun groups are staying away from it because they don't want to lose in court.

That's how it was explained to me, anyway. I see that some asshole might have explained it slightly differently to you. Either way, I'm not going to be a test case, but I'm pretty certain some teachers carry in NH.

No, an asshole didn't explain it to me, I read the law - which I thoughtfully provided in plain text, because you clearly didn't.

Federal law supersedes state law.  Just like the weed shops in Cali.  State wise, they're legal.  Federally, they're not.  Thats why feds kick their doors in and confiscate all their shit. 

The question arises whether the Feds will orchestrate a case, or provide Federal patrols to enforce the Federal legislation. 

Traditionally, Federal or State cops don't patrol schools, local cops do - at their discretion.  Therefore they may be more flexible locally, and purposefully overlook the situation, even when they know its a Federal infraction.  (Thats the definition of good judgment on a local cop)

An example, someone goes to pick up their kid, has a noticible bulge on their hip.  The cop sees it, because he's trained to notice such things (I notice such things), but with all the commotion around, it unfolds to nothing.  The parent and kid are reunited, and off he goes.  No harm, no foul.  The cop probably appreciates the fact the parent is carrying, because he can't be there every day.

That is the part that will now change, among other legislation. 

Secondly, most people who go to pick up their kids are picking up little kids.  Not high-schoolers.  The volume of adults present drops as the kids grow in age, because - as everyone knows - teens dislike when their parents stand around outside the school when the day ends.  In the higher grades, the parents will sit in the car, thus preventing the observation by police.

There is no question whether people carry guns onto school property, it happens every day.  The question is whether its legal.  And the answer is no.  And responsible gun owners know that.

Despite your inflated opinions of your state, it's not magic.  Nobody really cares if you think it's kinda legal...  it either is, or it isn't- when the bracelets come out. 

I don't know why you're mentioning permits and towns with no cops, because NH is an open carry state.  Therefore, if your theory is true, the number of citizens you see open carrying should be replicated in like numbers in school situations - but it isn't.  They lock it in the car, when they have to enter the school, because they know. 

I'll bet there are teachers that carry, maybe locked in their briefcase.  I predict every fucking single one of them started leaving it home, as of Monday.  Because if they started spot-checking faculty, they'd lose their teaching license -  and it would be mandatory for the other teacher (principal, superintendent, whatever) to nark them out, officially.  This would bring the state cops, who would then turn it over to the jurisdictional enforcement - which I assume would be ATF agents, or Federal Marshals.   

I guarantee you, with the current atmosphere, if any carrying bust happens (on school properties), you will absolutely see it on the various talking head shows, ad nauseum.

In all sincerity, if you value your safety or freedom, and that of your friends, you should encourage your friends to err on the side of caution.  Look at the people who are on Megans Law lists for pissing on an empty playground, at night. 

The rule is 1000 ft from property lines, not even "on property"..  Look it up.  This does not apply to people on private adjacent property.  (like next door, or across the street). 

As previously mentioned, these issues are addressed in SCOTUS Heller (2008) and reaffirmed in McDonald (2010).  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago#Decision

I can also tell you, the national conversation is overwhelmingly negative with teachers carrying guns, at all.  And leading this charge is the teachers, supported by their unions, who are WAY more powerful than the fuckin' NRA.  (which is why all the politicos are siding with the teachers, like being drawn into a vacuum)

[Defendant]

The "airlock" is probably the best way to go.  Sallyports have been in use in secure facilities for hundreds of years, and are essentially foolproof.  

Correct me if I'm wrong but from what I heard  that school had a "buzz in" system. Also it seems that the office had a view on that entrance so they could see who was buzzing to come in. What the killer did was simply shoot through the glass door window(?) and then walked in.

Ya.  He just broke the glass.

The integrity of these secure sallyports all depends upon the construction methods.  If they want to make it more secure, the exterior can remain glass, and look nice. 

Then, once inside the foyer, they can have double-wide steel doors, with magneto locks.  Those can be chocked open when the student population is arriving, and people just stream right through it. 

Once school is in session, you can have a 2-way camera chat.  Its not rocket surgery. 

I would think those simple improvements might cost a couple thousand bucks, and it should be like that, anyway.  Thats how they build most non-public areas of hospitals, if you've ever been backstage at a hospital.  Same with most modern public buildings, like courthouses. 

I worked at an installation with steel doors and magneto locks, operated via sledge card.  They work great.  And you can't make duplicate keycards, because they're activated and recognized by an internal server.  If you get fired, they simply delete your access, its instantaneous. 

Obviously, anyone here can dream up a method to circumvent security enhancements.  You could just drive a killdozer right through the front wall, etc...  but this place thrives on theoretical horseshit, and I usually don't participate in non-reality based conjecture.






 

[Defendant]

I think the reasonable point is that a defense-free zone is an invitation. It might be a good idea not to have a legislated invitation.

Its not defense free, its self-defense free.  Theres a difference. 

There is no legislation that says schools cannot be patrolled by an armed guard.

The invitation aspect is the challenge, like a burglar doesn't know which house has weapons, so they break into unoccupied houses.  I get that.

Consider this, as a homeowner.  Would you like your school taxes to reflect the insurance premiums of a potential wrongful death at the hands of a teacher, and the higher salaries of teachers who are now acting double duty as armed protectionists? 

Personally, I much prefer the idea of panic rooms, which can be drawn into the architectural plans and cost basically nothing, yet last basically forever with no maintenance. 

I can't imagine some old lady with a gaggle of tots behind her, fending off an assailant.  Most of these assholes go into massacres wearing body armor.  Look at the North Hollywood shootout, in 1997.  Those guys withstood hundreds of rounds before being taken down.

[Turd Ferguson]

I think the reasonable point is that a defense-free zone is an invitation. It might be a good idea not to have a legislated invitation.

I can't imagine some old lady with a gaggle of tots behind her, fending off an assailant. 

Just issue a Glock 9mm to each and every student over the age of 7, with the cost added into the price of book rental fees of course.

What could go wrong?

[Cognitive Dissident]

The impression is that there's no one armed within 1000 yards, or some foolish thing like that, and it's usually correct. 'nuf said.

[Diogenes The Cynic]

I wouldn't trust public school teachers with my children, much less with children and guns at the same time. Hell, I don't think most cops need to be armed. Its like that Mark Twain saying "to a man with a hammer, every problem is a nail." More guns in the hands of government employees will mean more justifiable murders.


But if I had to stand on a soapbox on Sandy Hook, this is what I would say:

It isn't the guns you fucking retards. The real problem is that American society is uniquely good at creating sociopaths. Solve that fucking problem.

[Brooklyn Red Leg]

I don't want cops and/or military personnel being stationed at schools. That is a path we dare not tread. However, I do think armed Private Security would be 100x better. Problem is that, at least here in FL, I would only be allowed to carry up to a pistol (9mm, .38 or the like) and I don't fancy having to take my chances with a dude carrying a long arm of some type. The other thing is the uniform issue as the state mandates we wear what could easily pass for a cop uniform instead of being what would be needed for an assignment like that: civies. If you have to be armed security, in my opinion, it is better to NOT look like a security guard.

[Turd Ferguson]

Hell, I don't think most cops need to be armed.

There was a cop at a shooting range I go to sometimes who didn't know he had one chambered in his Glock 9mm and the thing went off and hit the ground, ricoched off the concrete and put a hole in the wall up by the register. The owner of the place framed the hole with a small picture frame and put the officers name and the date on it and basically told the guy to GTFO and never come back.

[Turd Ferguson]

When I started this thread, I never meant to imply that any teacher should be required to carry in school. I still hold the opinion that it would be fine for a teacher that was proven to be well trained and shown to be a responsible person to carry one. In fact, if I had kids in school, I'd feel safer knowing that there was someone there like that.

Ask yourself, if you were the parent of one of those kids who got slaughtered like ducks in a barrel and time travel was a reality, would you go back 5 min in time before the shooting and arm one of the teachers? I should as fuck would. No question about it. Who knows, maybe the teacher would stop him before he got 20 of em and only a few died, or maybe the lunatic got the teacher first..... ya never know, but at least they would have stood some kind of chance.

That's all im saying.
 

[Cognitive Dissident]

I'd just rather nitwits couldn't depend on there not being someone who's armed. I don't care if it's a teacher or a janitor or an administrator who decides to carry because he's free to. I just care that would be attackers know it's a possibility.

By the way, I'm getting emails from someone at my email address that I use here, maybe from somewhere else, but it's a bit of a mystery because it's not typical spam:

From:    fremanfighter@dune.com
Subject:    Newtown, Connecticut is the second Dunblane Primary-School Massacre.
Date:    December 18, 2012 9:16:25 AM MST

The primary-school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, approximately 45 miles from the Colt Arms Factory, is just another one in the long line of government psyops designed to persuade the public to allow the government to take away their guns, and their means to defend themselves against the government and the banksters that the politicians really serve.

The small children murders are designed to create hysterical emotions in women to get them to demand that guns are banned. If that doesn‚t work they will continue with their evil agenda with worse and worse atrocities on younger children, until they get their way and disarm the people, so that they cannot fight back against government tyranny.

Newtown is the U.S.A.‚s Dunblane, which was orchestrated in Scotland in 1996 by the British establishment, to whip up hysteria in order to ban all handguns from the U.K. It was a follow-up to the Hungerford Massacre in England in 1987, which was carried out by mind-controlled Michael Ryan, who then shot himself so he could not be questioned, and it was used to ban semi-automatic rifles and shotguns.

It‚s always the same people behind it ˆ the gun-grabbers who want the people to be defenceless against the gun-grabbers‚ employers ˆ the banksters who own all of the politicians. They get their politicians to pass legislation for them, in order to remove the people‚s freedoms and means of defending themselves, and enslave them in a draconian police-state, under a mountain of debt, and then exterminate the useless-eaters.

The Dunblane  massacre was supposedly carried out by Thomas Hamilton, who was a paedophile and procurer of children, for a high level paedophile ring involving senior members of the Tony Blair Labour-Party shadow-cabinet and others. The massacre served two purposes, it achieved their desired handgun-ban and killed the abused children, so they could not be witnesses against the elite-paedophiles. They then had the findings of the inquiry sealed for 100 years, which is proof of the above.

Like Newtown there were two shooters, Hamilton and a hit-man who shot Hamilton and made it look like Hamilton committed suicide after shooting 16 children, so that he couldn‚t be questioned. Hamilton was found in the school gymnasium slumped against a wall and still gurgling, when an off-duty policeman PC Grant McCutcheon entered the gym and saw two semi-automatic pistols, one on either side of Hamilton‚s body.

The autopsy revealed that Hamilton was killed with a .38 revolver. These people always slip-up with their crimes. There was no .38 revolver for him to have shot himself with. Thus, there was a second shooter who killed Hamilton.

Similarly, the first reports from Newtown were of two shooters, just like mind-controlled James Holmes in the Denver Batman Cinema massacre, the story then quickly changes to just one.

Columbine was similar, in that a team of shooters in black outfits were seen there and the two accused were on mind-altering prescription-drugs.

Wake up and see the pattern and their modus operandi and don‚t fall for it. Never let them take your guns, except from your cold dead hands.

All of these are staged events to whip-up hysterical public support for banning the people from having guns. It works the same in every country ˆ Hungerford in England, Dunblane in Scotland, Port Arthur in Australia and the list in America is endless, because of the Second Amendment and the people having a pro-gun culture. That makes it much more difficult to break the Americans‚ love of guns and the Second Amendment, which was put in place to protect the people from the government.

Gun bans work well for tyrants. They worked well for Hitler, Stalin and Chairman Mao, to name just three.

If you want to stop these massacres, wake-up and get rid of the banksters, their puppet-politicians and all gun-grabbers; arm teachers and ban gun-free zones.

From one who can see the pattern and hopes to enable you to see it too.

This google query was interesting, too...