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Author Topic: The Most Non-Liberty Oriented Position I Hold  (Read 1729 times)
ReasonableVoice
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« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2014, 11:33:09 AM »

you can't prove the nonexistence of anything-
Not exactly true.

If the exhaustive method can be employed ( one of many scientific methods )
the a nonexistence claim can be proven.

If one claims that a toilet does not exist in a certain room
and the room can be exhaustively searched,
then that claim can be proven one way or the other.


Regardless of what Atheists say, the "nonexistence of God" can NOT be proven (science shows that),

That's why the burden of proof is on someone trying to claim the existence

The burden of proof is on the one making a claim regardless of whether
the claim concerns the existence of something
or if the claim concerns the nonexistence of something.

One who claims "the belief in the nonexistence of God and that the belief does not rely upon faith"
bears the burden of proof to show that either a) God does not exist or b) that they do not rely upon faith for that belief.

All atheists rely upon "faith" and that can be proven (and just was proven :-0) ).

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ReasonableVoice
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« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2014, 11:49:47 AM »

All atheists rely upon "faith" and that can be proven (and just was proven :-0) ).

Well, then, next time anyone sees an Atheist ridiculing someone for having "faith" for their belief in something

maybe we should tell them they have a beam in their own eye ?




Nah. Let them alone.
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ReasonableVoice
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« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2014, 11:55:54 AM »

ridiculing someone

There's a saying that goes something like this . . .

First they ridicule you.
Then they ignore you.
Then they fight you.
And then you win.



Ridicule is a slippery slope that has losers at the bottom.

But then again, not all opinion is intended as ridicule, so don't jump to conclusions.

But when ignoring ensues, followed by fighting, well, ...

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ReasonableVoice
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« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2014, 11:57:37 AM »

There's a saying that goes something like this . . .


HEY!!! Quit hogging the thread !!


( "hogging" not intended as ridicule :-0) )
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dalebert
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« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2014, 12:48:20 PM »

Like imagine for a second god arrived, he is the biggest fag (no offense i mean flamboyant gay) ever.. Is that the god in the Bible that the Bible beaters are talking about with the homosexuality is a sin shit? Or do you conclude their god never existed?

That's why if anyone wants to start having a discussion about the existence of "God", I say the first thing we have to do is establish exactly what their version is. I find some notions of a god to be less absurd than others.

A broad lack of evidence for the existence of something is evidence for it's nonexistence. Like when they scanned the entire Loch Ness from one side to the other and giant lizards are kind of hard to hide from that, and when you combine that with the lack of any evidence of any scientific substance for decades of people actively looking for it, that's still not 100% conclusive forever and always. But concluding there is no lochness monster* is not a faith-based conclusion. It's an evidence-based conclusion. I don't believe in the lochness monster means I'm fairly confident it doesn't exist due to the complete lack of evidence when a giant creature like that would be rather difficult to hide and there'd probably be substantial evidence by now. If they catch him some day and I can go see him at Sea World, I'll be all "Shit! I was WRAWNG!" and I will change my belief.

*Keeping in mind that the claim is it's based in a specific lake; hence the name. There might be something like it on a planet in another galaxy or something.
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ReasonableVoice
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« Reply #35 on: February 03, 2014, 01:19:46 PM »

A broad lack of evidence for the existence of something is evidence for it's nonexistence.
Having less than 100% conclusive evidence for the nonexistence of something is not conclusive proof for the nonexistence of something.

That said, there is no broad lack of evidence of intelligent design in the universe.
There is enough broad evidence of intelligent design in the universe to support a reasonable belief in God, though still a belief by faith.



not 100% conclusive forever and always.

Whatever part is less than 100% conclusive is "faith".


concluding there is no lochness monster* is not a faith-based conclusion. It's an evidence-based conclusion.
Your logic fails because you draw a false dichotomy between faith-based and evidence-based.

Any evidence-based conclusion is ALSO a faith-based conclusion UNLESS the evidence is 100% conclusive.

There is nothing that forces anyone to hold an evidence-based belief that something is true
when the evidence is less than 100% conclusive.

The CHOICE to believe that something is true without 100% conclusiveness is the act of "faith".

« Last Edit: February 03, 2014, 07:06:49 PM by ReasonableVoice » Logged
Temper
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« Reply #36 on: February 03, 2014, 11:04:23 PM »

Like imagine for a second god arrived, he is the biggest fag (no offense i mean flamboyant gay) ever.. Is that the god in the Bible that the Bible beaters are talking about with the homosexuality is a sin shit? Or do you conclude their god never existed?

That's why if anyone wants to start having a discussion about the existence of "God", I say the first thing we have to do is establish exactly what their version is. I find some notions of a god to be less absurd than others.

You missed the point. The case is, whatever they have in their mind isn't want is to their thing doesn't exist!

A broad lack of evidence for the existence of something is evidence for it's nonexistence. Like when they scanned the entire Loch Ness from one side to the other and giant lizards are kind of hard to hide from that, and when you combine that with the lack of any evidence of any scientific substance for decades of people actively looking for it, that's still not 100% conclusive forever and always. But concluding there is no lochness monster* is not a faith-based conclusion. It's an evidence-based conclusion. I don't believe in the lochness monster means I'm fairly confident it doesn't exist due to the complete lack of evidence when a giant creature like that would be rather difficult to hide and there'd probably be substantial evidence by now. If they catch him some day and I can go see him at Sea World, I'll be all "Shit! I was WRAWNG!" and I will change my belief.

*Keeping in mind that the claim is it's based in a specific lake; hence the name. There might be something like it on a planet in another galaxy or something.

Then that would not be the lochness monster.. for the "lochness moster" is defined as lizard thing that lives that that specific lake.. If you find something on another planet, you concluding that it was that just proves that you should not be making determinations of any kind..
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dalebert
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« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2014, 04:15:40 PM »

I think I'm ready for some serious anti-Facebook legislation. All of my libertarian friends are... somehow, still on Facebook which has caused me to lose faith in the free market and go full-on statist. I'm running for president so I can destroy FB with the military.

Facebook Fraud
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