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Author Topic: Don't initiate violence?  (Read 23380 times)

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Turd Ferguson

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #150 on: December 10, 2011, 11:02:12 AM »

Ya know, as much shit as I give military guys for being assholes in general, just for signing up in the first place, I have to say I feel pretty confident that if there were some kind of civil unrest scenario, the large majority of them would never fire on the people of their own country.The ones that did would be so outnumbered they'd have to give it up.

Now, if they would only take that same stance on the citizens of other countries, I might even show a little respect for them.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2011, 11:04:49 AM by quickmike »
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alaric89

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #151 on: December 10, 2011, 11:47:01 AM »

Maybe right now most would refuse orders to fire at US citizens.....
I remembered Penn State when I typed that.....
Anyway looks like they are weeding out any problems in this area.
The military leaders probably fear a Ron Paul win. They would rather live in a police state with their sweet pentions then a free society without.

Turd Ferguson

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #152 on: December 10, 2011, 12:18:20 PM »

Did you mean Kent state where they shot the students in 1970? Did you know Jay Leno was there cheering the soldiers on?  :wink:

One thing, in a scenario where there would be full out civil unrest, there would also be a lack of funding to pay these clowns hefty pensions, which is why the civil unrest would come about in the first place. Either they wouldn't get them, or they would be so devalued in that situation, it wouldn't even be worth it. I mean, if it all came down to how much you were getting paid to do it, that is.

I think the overwhelming majority would lay down their weapons. After all, they all have families and do have hearts when it comes right down to it. They might talk all hard right now and believe they could slaughter people like that, but when it came right down to getting it done, they would be overwhelmed emotionaly.


I dont have a whole lot of faith in humanity left, but I do think theres a limit to what these soldiers could stomach. The majority of them anyway. Sure there would be some sociopaths out there that would do it, but their numbers would be relatively small.

Just my opinion.
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alaric89

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #153 on: December 10, 2011, 12:30:07 PM »

Right, Kent State. I am not as old as you are. :(
I hope you are right about the "good" soldiers.

alaric89

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #154 on: January 09, 2012, 03:05:47 PM »

alaric89

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #156 on: February 02, 2014, 03:55:07 PM »

I know the goals of liberty can not come from violence, but to be honest I don't think I could just stand there and watch some thugs taze a 7 month pregnant chick.
Am I just old fashion and wrong? Or is there a line when one can honorably start retaliating the hard way?
When can one initiate violence?
Adam Kokesh proved that even feining aggression towards the state will lead to bad things. Be simpathetic, polite and practice damage control when in a conflict with a state employee. That is your best bet to help everybody young man. I also think you were confused. Defense doesn't violate the NAP, with that said it is never moral to initiate aggression.

alaric89

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #157 on: April 16, 2014, 10:10:07 AM »

« Last Edit: April 16, 2014, 10:13:58 AM by alaric89 »
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Ylisium

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #158 on: April 20, 2014, 11:11:18 PM »

I know the goals of liberty can not come from violence, but to be honest I don't think I could just stand there and watch some thugs taze a 7 month pregnant chick.
Am I just old fashion and wrong? Or is there a line when one can honorably start retaliating the hard way?
When can one initiate violence?
Adam Kokesh proved that even feining aggression towards the state will lead to bad things. Be simpathetic, polite and practice damage control when in a conflict with a state employee. That is your best bet to help everybody young man. I also think you were confused. Defense doesn't violate the NAP, with that said it is never moral to initiate aggression.

You'll have to define, "initiate aggression".

If I am a slave, do I have the right to attack my owners in their sleep if it's the only way to freedom?

The state is the state because it has the monopoly on violence.

It's the threat of violence that ultimately keeps people from infringing on your freedoms. We've turned over so much of that threat to the state, we have what we have now. It's almost a perfect ratio.

As the populace's ability to make violence decreases, the states ability to oppress grows.

Beliving that you're some kind of Glenn Beck Ghandi and that's going to solve all the problems of the state is ridiculous.

« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 11:14:28 PM by Ylisium »
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alaric89

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #159 on: April 23, 2014, 03:42:34 PM »

I know the goals of liberty can not come from violence, but to be honest I don't think I could just stand there and watch some thugs taze a 7 month pregnant chick.
Am I just old fashion and wrong? Or is there a line when one can honorably start retaliating the hard way?
When can one initiate violence?
Adam Kokesh proved that even feining aggression towards the state will lead to bad things. Be simpathetic, polite and practice damage control when in a conflict with a state employee. That is your best bet to help everybody young man. I also think you were confused. Defense doesn't violate the NAP, with that said it is never moral to initiate aggression.

You'll have to define, "initiate aggression".

If I am a slave, do I have the right to attack my owners in their sleep if it's the only way to freedom?

The state is the state because it has the monopoly on violence.

It's the threat of violence that ultimately keeps people from infringing on your freedoms. We've turned over so much of that threat to the state, we have what we have cow. It's almost a perfect ratio.

As the populace's ability to make violence decreases, the states ability to oppress grows.

Beliving that you're some kind of Glenn Beck Ghandi and that's going to solve all the problems of the state is ridiculous.


Yes killing your master does not violate the NAP. A direct frontal assault on the government would be suicide though. I believe we in the liberty movement need to concintrate on long turm statogies. Since I can not go underground for a while, I am working more on infrastructure. I recommend the Bad Quaker's beyond civil disobedience series. I need not reinvent the wheel on a thread that pretty much is a simple documentation on one man's journey.

Ylisium

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #160 on: April 24, 2014, 05:33:53 PM »

Ya know, as much shit as I give military guys for being assholes in general, just for signing up in the first place, I have to say I feel pretty confident that if there were some kind of civil unrest scenario, the large majority of them would never fire on the people of their own country.The ones that did would be so outnumbered they'd have to give it up.

Now, if they would only take that same stance on the citizens of other countries, I might even show a little respect for them.

Meh,

I run into this self-righteous attitude a lot towards military in the liberty movement. I would hazard to guess that most libertarian minded folk, unless they grew up in this way, didn't really solidify the way they feel until later in their early adulthood. But it's okay for them to be asshole statists when they were young dumb and full of cum, but not for the poor bastards that actually think they are doing something to help out other people.

I was in the Marines for almost seven years. I didn't have a blood thirsty desire to go out and murder babies, and I never did. Military join for a wide variety of reasons, but most also share the same young, naive and impressionable traits that most young people around the world do. It's cool, they like weapons, they want a challenge, some adventure, travel, college benefits, serve something larger than themselves, it's a family tradition, defend the nation, to be a warrior, nothing better to do, to gain some life skills, learn personal discipline / grow-up...all kinds. Never heard, "Because I wanted to be part of the statist warmongering machine that seeks to murder and opress anyone that stands in the way of globalist hegemonic corporate interests!" Which is what it sounds like coming out of the mouth of a lot of self-righteous libertarians.

When you spend 13 or more years in the government propaganda machine, reinforced by your family, friends, culture and entertainment, I don't know how I can expect you to, at 17 - 18 - 19, have an original thought of your own. Let alone a self-original all encompassing philosophy.

When I was in, I genuinely wanted to help people. There was no politics about it. Just be helpful, and most of my fellow Marines were the same way. When you think you're doing good and helping people, there's almost no more rewarding feeling in the world. That's about as political as it gets for most of us who were in.

But, yeah, go and malign a whole group of people because it's the puritanical and popular thing to do.

On your other point.

if there is civil unrest. I wouldn't count the military as an effective fighting force at all.

My guess is that 1/4 will look for any excuse just to get away  because military life really does suck that bad.
1/4 will desert because family is more important (remember, kids just out of the house, most of them)
1/4 will fight against the government
1/4 will remain government stooges.

By no means a scientific guestimate, just going off of experience of knowing folks.

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Ylisium

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #161 on: April 24, 2014, 05:35:09 PM »

I know the goals of liberty can not come from violence, but to be honest I don't think I could just stand there and watch some thugs taze a 7 month pregnant chick.
Am I just old fashion and wrong? Or is there a line when one can honorably start retaliating the hard way?
When can one initiate violence?
Adam Kokesh proved that even feining aggression towards the state will lead to bad things. Be simpathetic, polite and practice damage control when in a conflict with a state employee. That is your best bet to help everybody young man. I also think you were confused. Defense doesn't violate the NAP, with that said it is never moral to initiate aggression.

You'll have to define, "initiate aggression".

If I am a slave, do I have the right to attack my owners in their sleep if it's the only way to freedom?

The state is the state because it has the monopoly on violence.

It's the threat of violence that ultimately keeps people from infringing on your freedoms. We've turned over so much of that threat to the state, we have what we have cow. It's almost a perfect ratio.

As the populace's ability to make violence decreases, the states ability to oppress grows.

Beliving that you're some kind of Glenn Beck Ghandi and that's going to solve all the problems of the state is ridiculous.


Yes killing your master does not violate the NAP. A direct frontal assault on the government would be suicide though. I believe we in the liberty movement need to concintrate on long turm statogies. Since I can not go underground for a while, I am working more on infrastructure. I recommend the Bad Quaker's beyond civil disobedience series. I need not reinvent the wheel on a thread that pretty much is a simple documentation on one man's journey.

I'll check out this Bad Quaker thing.

But yeah, right on. Suicide to think that my militia is going to go into WA DC to wage war and win.
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alaric89

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #162 on: April 26, 2014, 04:08:50 AM »

Just a small disclaimer. I disagree with Ben on the making the fake video thing. It would be counterproductive and sets up a backlash. It isn't like the government and their enforcers are not giving us plenty of youtube fodder anyway. Otherwise I would like everyone to quietly help that series get on as many thumb drives and phones as possible.
http://www.badquaker.com/archives/2551 I think the previous post sort of prefaces the series, but he was very negitive at a few people in that one so Ben would probably prefere the sharing start with part 1.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2014, 04:29:22 AM by alaric89 »
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Diogenes The Cynic

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #163 on: April 27, 2014, 04:50:51 AM »

I know the goals of liberty can not come from violence, but to be honest I don't think I could just stand there and watch some thugs taze a 7 month pregnant chick.
Am I just old fashion and wrong? Or is there a line when one can honorably start retaliating the hard way?
When can one initiate violence?
Adam Kokesh proved that even feining aggression towards the state will lead to bad things. Be simpathetic, polite and practice damage control when in a conflict with a state employee. That is your best bet to help everybody young man. I also think you were confused. Defense doesn't violate the NAP, with that said it is never moral to initiate aggression.

You'll have to define, "initiate aggression".

If I am a slave, do I have the right to attack my owners in their sleep if it's the only way to freedom?

The state is the state because it has the monopoly on violence.

It's the threat of violence that ultimately keeps people from infringing on your freedoms. We've turned over so much of that threat to the state, we have what we have cow. It's almost a perfect ratio.

As the populace's ability to make violence decreases, the states ability to oppress grows.

Beliving that you're some kind of Glenn Beck Ghandi and that's going to solve all the problems of the state is ridiculous.


Yes killing your master does not violate the NAP. A direct frontal assault on the government would be suicide though. I believe we in the liberty movement need to concintrate on long turm statogies. Since I can not go underground for a while, I am working more on infrastructure. I recommend the Bad Quaker's beyond civil disobedience series. I need not reinvent the wheel on a thread that pretty much is a simple documentation on one man's journey.

I've written (most) of a book on civil disobedience for liberty.

I haven't published it, but if anyone wants me to write up parts over here, I can do that.
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alaric89

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Re: Don't initiate violence?
« Reply #164 on: May 01, 2014, 06:44:16 AM »

I don't see what it would hurt to post a sample or two.
By the way a Muslim libertarian is looking for a practicing Jew to have on a panal at Porcfest. I guess to try and convince us libertarians that don't have all powerful judgemental invisable friends that religous people are not nuts or something. He goes by Will Coley on facebook, but I'll be glad to help you guys get in touch. By the way I found your dream wife. Her name is Joanna Angel. :)
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