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Poll

What do you read most often? (Pick all that apply)

Adult Magazines
- 22 (1.4%)
Sports Magazines
- 16 (1%)
Entertainment Magazines
- 25 (1.6%)
Electronics Magazines
- 88 (5.7%)
Hobby / Crafts Magazines
- 27 (1.8%)
Home / Garden Magazines
- 25 (1.6%)
Outdoor  / Guns / Hunting / Fishing Magazines
- 41 (2.7%)
Fitness / Exercise / Health Magazines
- 30 (2%)
Music / Scene Magazines
- 27 (1.8%)
Technical  / Trade Magazines
- 64 (4.2%)
Newspaper / News Magazines
- 107 (7%)
Religious Books / Magazines
- 32 (2.1%)
Sci-Fi / Fantasy Books
- 148 (9.7%)
Nonfiction History Books
- 115 (7.5%)
Technical / How To Manuals
- 91 (5.9%)
Romance Novels
- 1 (0.1%)
Mystery / Thriller Books
- 43 (2.8%)
Other Fiction Books
- 112 (7.3%)
Other Nonfiction Books
- 125 (8.2%)
Political / Philosophical Issues Magazines
- 140 (9.1%)
Car / Auto / Mechanics Magazines
- 28 (1.8%)
Science Magazines
- 78 (5.1%)
Fashion Magazines
- 7 (0.5%)
Art / History / Culture Magazines
- 29 (1.9%)
"Classics" Books
- 60 (3.9%)
Self (Help, Health, Motivation) Books
- 26 (1.7%)
Business / Finance / Investing Books
- 26 (1.7%)

Total Members Voted: 203


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Author Topic: Demographics - Reading Material?  (Read 47911 times)

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alkanen

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #30 on: October 13, 2007, 04:13:46 PM »

Uhm... doesn't literature just mean "written stuff"?
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Free_Marketeer

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #31 on: October 13, 2007, 04:44:40 PM »

Uhm... doesn't literature just mean "written stuff"?

Yes and no; it depends on context.  I spoke of literature in the vein of definition 1, below, as should have been apparent from my discussion. 

Literature bears qualitative distinctiveness as a specialized art and field of study.  Nothing profound in that statement; it's just a division of labor and specialization in the field of authorship.

Quote
lit·er·a·ture      /ˈlɪtərətʃər, -ˌtʃʊər, ˈlɪtrə-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[lit-er-uh-cher, -choor, li-truh-]

1.   writings in which expression and form, in connection with ideas of permanent and universal interest, are characteristic or essential features, as poetry, novels, history, biography, and essays.
2.   the entire body of writings of a specific language, period, people, etc.: the literature of England.
3.   the writings dealing with a particular subject: the literature of ornithology.
4.   the profession of a writer or author.
5.   literary work or production.
6.   any kind of printed material, as circulars, leaflets, or handbills: literature describing company products.
7.   Archaic. polite learning; literary culture; appreciation of letters and books.
[Origin: 1375–1425; late ME litterature < L litterātūra grammar. See literate, -ure]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/literature
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Johnson

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #32 on: October 14, 2007, 02:24:17 AM »

There is really nothing about that definition that made it more specific than "written stuff"
That was amusing.


I genuinely do want you to come up with more specific categories to include what you read... but the word "Literature" isn't going to cut it.
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"In silent resignation, one must never submit to them voluntarily, and even if one is imprisoned in some ghastly dictatorship's jail, where no action is possible - serenity comes from the knowledge that one does NOT accept it. To deal with men by force, is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion... Which is the policy of savages who rule men by force, and who plead with nature by prayers, incantations and bribes (sacrifies)." - Ayn Rand

Free_Marketeer

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #33 on: October 14, 2007, 04:06:11 PM »

There is really nothing about that definition that made it more specific than "written stuff"
That was amusing.

I genuinely do want you to come up with more specific categories to include what you read... but the word "Literature" isn't going to cut it.

Differentiation beyond "Literature" or "Classics" is unnecessary, for this poll, because there are too many styles, forms, and cultures and cultural languages encompassed in it.  For example: Tales from a Thousand and One Nights is extremely different from Dickens' Bleak House, but both have a rightful place in the evolution of, and are considered literature.

Moreover, literature evolves along with humans, our ways of thinking, and our cultures; there cannot be a definitive list of traits that one can use to define and classify literature in the way dictionaries define things, because we as individuals and cultures continue to evolve.  This is why I said I spoke "in the vein of" the first definition.  Your amused derision is ignorant of the (free market-based) division of labor and specialization that has occurred in the fields of linguistics and literary analysis.

Back to the poll: You want to make sure that poll-takers can meaningfully partition themselves, but it is useless to particularize further, in terms of relaying useful information to FTL's advertisers - they aren't likely to care whether a person is reading medieval epic poetry or eighteenth-century prose; but they probably would like to know whether we are reading that which is commonly called "Literature" or the throw-away novellas of the day (especially since I suspect there are others who would have chosen that option over "Other Fiction".  Book stores use the categories fine to separate the books, and readers know where to find the books they seek in those stores - I don't see what the problem is, 'ya old poll monster.
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Laetitia

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #34 on: October 14, 2007, 04:14:33 PM »

What? No "Austrian Economics", or even plain old "Economics"?

 :P
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Free_Marketeer

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #35 on: October 14, 2007, 04:19:05 PM »

What? No "Austrian Economics", or even plain old "Economics"?

 :P

Nonfiction history for general analysis/layman's stuff; trade manuals for the technical stuff.  I looked for that one, too.  :)
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Johnson

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #36 on: October 14, 2007, 04:27:16 PM »

I looked through the Amazon (and some used bookstore) sites to see their categories... they rarely mentioned the word "Literature" in categories but I often encountered "Classics". I've added that... for economics.. I've generalized a bit and put in Business, Finance, and Investing.
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"In silent resignation, one must never submit to them voluntarily, and even if one is imprisoned in some ghastly dictatorship's jail, where no action is possible - serenity comes from the knowledge that one does NOT accept it. To deal with men by force, is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion... Which is the policy of savages who rule men by force, and who plead with nature by prayers, incantations and bribes (sacrifies)." - Ayn Rand

Bill Brasky

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #37 on: October 15, 2007, 05:21:59 PM »

I guess I just feel "The Grapes of Wrath" and "The Great Gatsby" are just books... just like any other book. I don't feel the fact that you read books that make you feel intellectually superior simply because they are old and some government high school teachers said that you need to read them somehow lends extra validity to them, or means that somehow there is a special marketing niche there. If "Moby Dick", "Tom Sawyer", or "As I lay Dying" are really so special... I think you are really sort of just being silly.

Besides, I think there are better names for categories of books than simply "Literature". Maybe if a few of those were tossed out I might consider it...

Until then... I will consider the fact that "The Library of America" was relatively uncooperative in coming up with a good deal for us to resell some books... So the Literature crowd can go screw...  :D

Its all I buy.  It has nothing to do with intellectual superiority, unless you'd like to reflect on the other side of the fence for a moment and admit magazines and comic books are indicative of morons (which they're not...)  You want demographs, or you just gonna have a knee jerk reaction and tell all the literati to go fuck themselves?  Doesn't matter to me, it's your accuracy.  But it's not a well thought out plan to ask people their habits then point at a segment and call them snobs.  I like what I do, and I don't recall inviting anyone to call me an asshole because I have a benign habit you might think is lofty, queer, or snobbish.  They're all just books.  Geek manuals, non-fiction, magazines.  I'm sure some of those periodicals and manuals dont sell 170k per year, at $16.95 each, for the last five decades. 

Just sayin' Johnson.  I noticed you added it even before my comment so I'm not trying to kick up any dust.  I just think when you look at the whole thing, classics have a place in that poll.  At the very least it deserves a spot there for honorable mention.  This is a bright crowd and theres a lot of people who will pleasantly surprise you when asked about their reading habits.  I would have never left that option off the list. 
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Lindsey

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #38 on: October 15, 2007, 06:50:26 PM »

I guess it depends on your definition of "classic".  I read a lot of literature as well. 
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #39 on: October 15, 2007, 07:26:14 PM »

Splitting hairs.  Someone above mentioned "all written text" could be considered literature. 

So, fine.  Narrow it down to a yes/no question:  Do you read?

Otherwise, he wants sub-categories.  I consider "classics" to be fiction thats been through a few re-printings, a few decades old or older.  If he wants to put The Davinci Code in with Ivanhoe, thats up to him.  According to the hot-shots, modern classic is from the 19th century but I don't like to get into pigeonholes.  Theres plenty of good stuff thats only a couple decades old.  If it made a real impact on society, it's a classic.  Its like the Kennedy assisination.  If you can remember where you were when you got introduced to that book, it's probably noteworthy. 
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Free_Marketeer

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #40 on: October 15, 2007, 09:07:30 PM »

Splitting hairs.  Someone above mentioned "all written text" could be considered literature. 

So, fine.  Narrow it down to a yes/no question:  Do you read?

Otherwise, he wants sub-categories.  I consider "classics" to be fiction thats been through a few re-printings, a few decades old or older.  If he wants to put The Davinci Code in with Ivanhoe, thats up to him.  According to the hot-shots, modern classic is from the 19th century but I don't like to get into pigeonholes.  Theres plenty of good stuff thats only a couple decades old.  If it made a real impact on society, it's a classic.  Its like the Kennedy assisination.  If you can remember where you were when you got introduced to that book, it's probably noteworthy. 

Good summation, Brasky. 

I wasn't trying to get into a debate about what is literature, only point out that the debate has been raging among people who have chosen to make their life's work the analysis of works that "contribute greatly" to "the human condition" sufficient to justify the inclusion of a "Literature" category in the poll. 

Literary analysts (specialized readers with specialized tools of analysis) mostly agree on there is that there is this thing: "high literature" (what most people imprecisely imagine when thinking of "Literature" - not the abstracted and essentially useless "anything with printed words on it.", i.e., campaign literature.).  They then set out with their specialized, professional tools of analysis in an effort to understand the works different cultures have recognized as "classics" and the commonality among them.

It isn't an elitist claim, though there are people in any field that will use the "appeal to authority" fallacy to coerce their claims with brute force.  I think these people's bad habits is the cause of Johnson's (and many others') prejudices against literateurs.  It saddens me, because I know people in that field with a careful, freedom mindset who have lent new light of discovery to ancient and near works, and who emphatically do not deserve Johnson's unjustified stereotype.  (My God, it feels like I'm back in Pre-Cal, defending my friend from one who levied insults in her absence (didn't know we were friends).)   

The claim merely recognizes that the field has a depth to it, now, that cannot be fully gleaned by merely picking up one of these "classics" and reading it (though every age has its geniuses).  The evolution of human thought is far from understood, but we can safely say that there are stepping stones, building blocks to thought that occur before further extension occurs.

I am not the one to disparage or settle the debate (it's only a hobby I love); neither is Johnson; and neither are, for that matter, all the literateurs discussing these works professionally - they necessarily cannot, because human thought, the human condition, and literature, consequently, continues to evolve, with corresponding uncertainty.

Johnson: Barnes and Noble, by the way, does have a "Fiction and Literature Classics" section, so I think your traipse through the world of online bookstore categorizations must have been slipshod.  If any of this has helped you understand, you might change the category to "Literature and Classics" or "Classics and Literature" (not "Classical Literature", because that would be from the specific classical period in time) - and no quotation marks, please - it isn't a quasi-field of study.
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #41 on: October 15, 2007, 10:16:15 PM »

Well, that was far from slipshod. 

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Johnson

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #42 on: October 15, 2007, 11:53:35 PM »

Splitting hairs.  Someone above mentioned "all written text" could be considered literature. 

So, fine.  Narrow it down to a yes/no question:  Do you read?

Otherwise, he wants sub-categories.  I consider "classics" to be fiction thats been through a few re-printings, a few decades old or older.  If he wants to put The Davinci Code in with Ivanhoe, thats up to him.  According to the hot-shots, modern classic is from the 19th century but I don't like to get into pigeonholes.  Theres plenty of good stuff thats only a couple decades old.  If it made a real impact on society, it's a classic.  Its like the Kennedy assisination.  If you can remember where you were when you got introduced to that book, it's probably noteworthy. 

The davinci code would be in mystery / thriller
Ivanhoe as historical fiction, could go into Classics... or Other fiction... *shrug*
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"In silent resignation, one must never submit to them voluntarily, and even if one is imprisoned in some ghastly dictatorship's jail, where no action is possible - serenity comes from the knowledge that one does NOT accept it. To deal with men by force, is as impractical as to deal with nature by persuasion... Which is the policy of savages who rule men by force, and who plead with nature by prayers, incantations and bribes (sacrifies)." - Ayn Rand

Taors

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #43 on: October 16, 2007, 12:26:36 AM »

These polls suck ass.
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Bill Brasky

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Re: Demographics - Reading Material?
« Reply #44 on: October 16, 2007, 04:06:57 AM »

Splitting hairs.  Someone above mentioned "all written text" could be considered literature. 

So, fine.  Narrow it down to a yes/no question:  Do you read?

Otherwise, he wants sub-categories.  I consider "classics" to be fiction thats been through a few re-printings, a few decades old or older.  If he wants to put The Davinci Code in with Ivanhoe, thats up to him.  According to the hot-shots, modern classic is from the 19th century but I don't like to get into pigeonholes.  Theres plenty of good stuff thats only a couple decades old.  If it made a real impact on society, it's a classic.  Its like the Kennedy assisination.  If you can remember where you were when you got introduced to that book, it's probably noteworthy. 

The davinci code would be in mystery / thriller
Ivanhoe as historical fiction, could go into Classics... or Other fiction... *shrug*

You could call it Old Tyme Shyte and most people would just nod begrudgingly.

So, just put the fuckin' dot up.

Oh, you did.

Fine, then I guess my work here is done.

..
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